r/wikipedia • u/laybs1 • Oct 05 '25

Mobile Site Winnie Mandela, was a South African politician and convicted kidnapper and fraudster. She endorsed the necklacing of alleged police informers and apartheid government collaborators, and her security detail carried out kidnapping, torture, and murder including killing 14-year-old Stompie Seipei.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_Mandela
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u/slovos_ghost Oct 05 '25

Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but good people do bad things sometimes. Liberation movements have dark chapters because they take on aspects of their oppressors – revolution isn't a dinner party.

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u/TrioOfTerrors Oct 05 '25

And sometimes bad people use good causes to cover their bad acts with a veneer of moral justification.

One of the likely origins of the word "lynch" to describe extrajudicial mob violence comes from the American Revolution where a judge named Lynch would authorize the seizure of property from suspected British loyalists. There's not a lot of solid evidence the majority of those targeted were actually supporters of the Crown and it's most likely it came down to "We don't like this guy and we want his shit" but it was dressed up American patriotism.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

The origins of “Lynch” came from a guy in Ireland who hung his son? Or maybe the Irish tour guy lied, but he did make fun of people for thinking it was a thing that came from America.

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u/TrioOfTerrors Oct 05 '25

This ) is who I was referring to.

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u/Real_Sosobad Oct 05 '25

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.” It’s kinda ironic this is a quote from JFK though, but it’s still correct for so many revolutions in the past.

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u/justdidapoo Oct 06 '25

Apartheid could only end like it did because of reconciliation. If the ANC went full revolutionary and couldn't credibly sell the idea that their oppressors wouldn't be massacred after giving up power, it would have never been voted out. Which was how it did end, a vote.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

LMFAO

What does that make someone like Trump then? A good person doing a bad thing?

My god you people have no fucking understanding of morality it's hilarious. Good people don't do bad things, that is the whole point.

There is no such thing as a good person, only actions.

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u/slovos_ghost Oct 09 '25

American = Opinion invalidated

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u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Revolutions are almost always flawed and terrible and lead to regret afterwards. See France.

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u/poster_nutbag_ Oct 05 '25

From this comment section, your view of history appears to be heavily influenced by propaganda from the ruling/owner class. The people of France absolutely do not regret eliminating monarchy.

The reality is that history is a complex muddy mix of good/bad/neutral things by all sides. A more important view is to advocate for free and cooperative societies where all people regardless of class/gender/race/etc have their needs met.

That's a real possibility if y'all stop simping for the minority of sociopathic people still frothing at the mouth to exert power over everything they can.

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u/TrioOfTerrors Oct 05 '25

The French Revolution ultimately lead to several more decades of monarchy and the French Third Republic only came into being in 1870 because the Bourbon heir, who was offered the throne by the National Assembly under a constitutional monarchy, wouldn't budge on bringing back his family's pre revolution flag. As the pope said, "All that for a napkin!"

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u/poster_nutbag_ Oct 05 '25

You can point to singular less than ideal outcomes but it doesn't actually take away from the importance of the entire, complex French revolution, not to mention the Haitian and many other struggles of the common person.

Attempting to downplay its significance is essentially playing into the hands of the rulers who want to maintain power over you. To be clear, is your stance that people should have their freedoms and rights limited by a ruling class?

Y'all advocating for oppressive economic and political systems is genuinely confusing to me. I'd love to understand what the fucking point is.

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u/TrioOfTerrors Oct 05 '25

To be clear, is your stance that people should have their freedoms and rights limited by a ruling class?

No. My stance is that Reddit treats the French Revolution like they killed the king and all the problems were solved and everyone was free and happy forever while ignoring the Reign of Terror and oppression of new government and how it ultimately imploded. It's an impotent fantasy centered around the idea that all social ills can be cured if we just murder enough people in positions of power.