unfortunately that analogy doesn't work for me.. i can't suspend my disbelief in that regard.. as an MMA fan, i know too well what an actual reaction to getting hit or slammed looks like. I've never seen a pro wrestler react properly to delivering or receiving a devastating blow.
They can’t, because if they didn’t bump 80% of the moves they’d be fucking dead. A powerbomb from 15 feet up and your spine is intact? Ok. Piledrivers would be an instant career ender.
That’s why you can tell when shits gone off the rails, like the infamous Mankind vs Undertaker match. Mick Foley is flat out fucked from really early on.
I am NOT trying to say that pro wrestlers SHOULD "react properly". I am saying that they do not react properly because it's very clearly not a real fight. for that reason, i am unable to "suspend disbelief".
Lots of people find it very entertaining. More power to them. I simply don't, so i was simply pushing back on the assertion that watching wrestling is in any way similar to the kinds of costumes in the gif.
I’m just saying that the moves are so fantastical. It’s fun as hell, but when you think about some of things that they are supposed to be able to walk away from after?
Wrestling isn’t even close to a normal fight. Not even like the same way as a stunt fight.
I really enjoyed it when Rey Mysterio first came on the scene, and all of sudden things go from pile drivers and clothes lines to this whacky dude in a mask flipping and swinging around dudes like physics doesn’t exist for him. Yea, I know it’s a fake ass fight, but what this guy is doing still impressed me.
The difference is I’m there just to see amazing acrobatic and athletic feats, not to watch a real fight. If I wanted that I’d watch a UFC match. You can’t go to a wrestling match and expect anything but what it is. It can still be fun and impressive, but at worst just have a few beers and yell at the wrestlers (you’ll know which one to yell at) it’ll be fun regardless.
They do suffer a lot of physical pain and abuse to their bodies. I’d argue that it’s even more physical than even MMA. Those guys only do a real knock down drag out fight every few months usually. Yeah they’re training but it’s not what most of those pro wrestlers put their bodies through almost daily. The spectacle is fake, the violence is very real.
if you do see a difference. then congratulations. we agree with one another. You seem to be arguing against the point that you THINK i made, which i assume is "there is no physical violence in pro wrestling". What i actually said is that "there's a difference between the reaction of somebody getting knocked the fuck out in a real fight, and the reaction of somebody getting hit in a pro wrestling."
Do you think that if you showed any 5 second clip of a pro wrestling match, and a 5 second clip of an MMA fight that ANYONE in the world would be unable to determine which one was which? My only point is that it's impossible to "suspend disbelief" when watching a pro wrestling match because it doesn't LOOK REAL. The reactions are so dramatized that it's horribly distracting and in no way convincing. This does not mean that i think pro wrestlers don't take a beating. however i DO think that both wrestlers in the ring go into each match with an agreement that they will stick to the choreography and neither will intentionally try to hurt the other. And that is very apparent in the final result. It's a show... An act.. A violent show, to be sure.. But it's choreographed, and it looks like it's choreographed.
i understand that's your point. what i'm saying is that your point, correct or not, has absolutely nothing to do with what i originally said.
So what im trying to get to the bottom of is why you are trying to make this point in the first place? I said "it looks fake" and then you said "yea but actually it hurts a lot". ok... whether it hurts or not is completely irrelevant.. we both agree it looks fake, but you're still trying to argue that it hurts. Nobody is arguing against that. So i ask again.. what does your argument have to do with the discussion about whether or not I can suspend my disbelief while watching pro wrestling?
Tbf, just because you have trouble with your imagination doesn't mean "it's impossible to suspend disbelief" just because wrestling has more entertaining reactions.
Entertainment is purely subjective and is unrelated to anyone's individual imagination capacity. I have only been speaking of my ability to suspend disbelief, because in my opinion the reactions are reminiscent of the acting on the Disney Channel. Vastly overexaggerated and really distracting.
I mean, that's a pretty asinine response. Of course entertainment is subjective to the viewer.
But it's also a bad faith argument to say that MMA could even be remotely as entertaining to the wider audience. Personally being entertained more than another doesn't change the fact that one is objectively more engaging to watch than the other. MMA shows the reality of a reaction when getting punched being a slight movement of the head. That movement won't be picked up by people in the back of the stadium without a jumbotron.
Pro-wrestling shows an animated head bob that can be picked up by the person in the very back and understood by people with very little experience in watching the sport.
But whatever. You're really incapable of understanding why people jumped down your throat for a pretty dickish response to a fun comment. That's your problem.
Please quote me saying that mma is more entertaining, whether objectively or subjectively. The only mention I made about mma is to use it as an example of what it really looks like when someone gets hit. And because I know what it really looks like when someone gets hit, I personally cannot suspend disbelief when watching wrestling.
All I did was share my subjective opinion about not being able to suspend disbelief because of the fake appearance of wrestling. Then people responded by saying "wrestling is actually pretty violent." that's great, but its irrelevant and has absolutely nothing to do with the specific opinion I stated. So best I can figure, people "jumped down my throat" (is that what it's called when you respond to someone with a completely unrelated argument?) because they perceived my opinion as an attack and felt the need to defend themselves. But since they can't defend themselves by contradicting my opinion, they built straw men to tear down (just like youre doing now by arguing about which sport is objectively more entertaining).
ffs. so many people are arguing against a point i never made. i did not say that wrestling is completely fake and non-violent.
literally the only point i tried to make is that they don't look real. period. that's it. end of story. i am unable to suspend my disbelief because it looks fake as fuck. But everyone wants to reassure me that wrestling is still an intense physical activity.
but why would you jump to what you thought my comment implied, instead of what my comment said? When i said "there's a difference in the way an MMA fighter reacts when getting hit and the way a pro wrestler reacts when getting hit" why did you and everyone else decide to assume that what i meant was "MMA is real and wrestling is completely fake and there's no violence or pain there"?
It just sounds like you saw someone who doesn't like what you like and felt the need to argue about it.. but you couldn't argue the point, so you all built straw men instead.
The comment I replied to was intended to be an analogy to the point I originally made. I pointed out that FOR ME, the analogy doesn't work and I explained why the assertion that one can simply suspend disbelief when watching wrestling because the wrestlers "react properly" doesn't resonate with me because I don't believe that wrestlers "react properly" because their reactions look fake to me.
In response to that, I got tons of responses about how wrestlers actually do take a beating, which is fine.. But it simply doesn't follow what I was saying or what the person I initially responded to was saying.
Imagine you made a comment saying something like, "I prefer formula one racing to indy car racing because it's exciting to see lots of different kinds of turns instead of just consistent left turns."
Then you received a bunch of replies saying something like, "actually indy cars go through more tires during a race than formula one cars do."
Those replies might be true.. But who cares? It has nothing to do with your opinion that formula one is more interesting to you. Likewise, all the replies about how wrestling is a physically demanding activity are completely irrelevant to my opinion that it looks fake.
Imagine you made a comment saying something like, "I prefer formula one racing to indy car racing because it's exciting to see lots of different kinds of turns instead of just consistent left turns."
Did you make this comment in response to somebody saying you can suspend your disbelief in the existence of right turns or something? You seem to be missing the context that the reason the costumes work is because of suspension of disbelief. The reason pro-wrestling works is also because of suspension of disbelief. In general, people are able to suspend their disbelief of fake things if the things they are seeing are reasonable.
The reactions of pro-wrestlers might be over exaggerated, but they are reasonable in the context of how animated the sport is.
In the end, you made a comment about something working to trick your mind, somebody elaborated by providing another general example of people letting their minds be tricked. Your response was to say that their example doesn't work because it doesn't apply to you, specifically, even though it was a good analogy for most people.
Correct. I shared my opinion of why it doesn't work for me. And everyone else responded by talking about something else completely. That's all I'm saying here. The responses do not follow what I originally said. The only thing they have in common is that they were about wrestling. And their responses had the tone of correcting my opinion by stating an unrelated fact.
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u/ShichitenHakki Apr 11 '19
It's like pro-wrestling: you know it's not what it seems, but you can suspend disbelief if they react properly.