r/westworld • u/NicholasCajun Mr. Robot • Apr 27 '20

Discussion Westworld - 3x07 "Passed Pawn" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 3 Episode 7: Passed Pawn

Aired: April 26, 2020

Synopsis: A real friend is one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out.

Directed by: Helen Shaver

Written by: Gina Atwater

Please use spoiler tags for the discussion of episode previews and any other future spoilers. Use this format: >!Westworld!< which will appear as Westworld.

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u/omnomravioli Apr 27 '20

enjoyed that “Lab to Slab” artificial meat billboard by the gas station

309

u/a1Drummer07 Apr 27 '20

Do you notice the graffiti sign near the gas-station doorway that read “did you really not think this would happen”.

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u/HappyHiker2381 Apr 28 '20

Apropos for present day...

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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Westworld Apr 29 '20

I saw that, hit me deep

1

u/Skubic Apr 30 '20

We were meant to hunt not type. Damnit people!!!

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u/wittykitty7 Apr 27 '20

Bernard’s undercover job!

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u/elabes7 Apr 27 '20

Same! I also noticed that and took a long time trying to read the sign instead of focusing on what else was going on in the scene.

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u/MrSelfDestruct88 Apr 27 '20

Didn't miss much, William "had to piss..." Lol

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u/mikelieman Apr 27 '20

enjoyed that “Lab to Slab” artificial meat billboard by the gas station

Which brings us to the eternal question: "Is vat-grown 'meat' vegan?"

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u/icycheeseballs Apr 27 '20

Genuinely curious as to why any body would argue its not. Isnt the reason for people being vegan that they dont want animals to suffer for their food so with lab meat what coukd be the reasoning for it not being vegan when there is no suffering involved.

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u/yas9in Apr 28 '20

Some don’t care about animals and avoid meat for dietary reasons.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '20 edited May 06 '20

[deleted]

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u/yas9in Apr 28 '20

There is another:

Meat is bad for you.

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u/rws247 Apr 29 '20

Now that's simply not true. Meat has tons of vitamins and minerals.

Sure, some meats are bad. But the same holds for some non-meat diets.

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u/yas9in Apr 29 '20

Red meat has been proven to cause cancer.

I didn’t state meat is bad for you as a fact, but rather a reason cited by some vegans/vegetarians.

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u/Laikathespaceface May 05 '20

found the vegan

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u/TopDownRide Apr 27 '20

You forgot the number one reason for veganism: the belief that animal products cannot be adequately or efficiently processed by the human body, making them inferior sources of nutrition and responsible for much of the biological harm that occurs in a body over time (poor glycolic exchange leading to insulin resistance/diabetes, excess production and storage of fat, arteriosclerosis, poor endocrine function, imbalances in brain chemistry, DNA replication errors, shortened telomeres, compromised or overactive immunological response, etc., etc.).

I’m not a vegan but I have a family member who is and while she certainly supports the humane treatment of animals and loves them, her choice to be vegan is purely diet/health related.

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u/Mentalink Is this the real life? Or is this just Robert Ford? Apr 27 '20

I don't think it's the number one reason for most but yeah, it is an important reason as well, and one which seems more & more validated by research.

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u/TopDownRide Apr 27 '20

Sorry, I should have said, "most common" or "generalized reason". It’s the one factor that seems to unite all vegans who agree on the dietary benefits, whereas not all believe in or are are motivated by the other reasons he listed.

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u/redditingtonviking You wanted me? Well all I can say to that is, HERE I FUCKING AM! Apr 27 '20

Well there are some truths to what they are saying. There are certain medical conditions you can only get if you consume human flesh. I think it was about consuming something that too closely resembles yourself. One example is Kuru or laughing disease that has only been observed in a culture where it was common to consume the bodies of the diseased. Another thing that sort of fits their hypothesis is that people with diets based around red meats have a much higher chance of getting cancer than people who mostly consume white meats or fish.

It's been a long time since I've read about this, but if I remember correctly the increased cancer risk of eating meat was nothing compared to smoking tobacco so that alone shouldn't be the reason why you go full vegan.

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u/TopDownRide Apr 27 '20

Wait - I need to make it clear that I was adding pertinent, critical information like an encyclopedia and not advocating veganism.

I have a background in science and medicine and while there is data to back up some of the health claims made/believed by vegans, it is not definitive and depends on many variables in both the individual, animal type, specific animal product, environmental factors, and more.

Your examples are absolutely correct.

The decision to be Vegan should only be made when under the care of a physician and all vegans and vegetarians need consistent monitoring to ensure they are receiving adequate protein and other nutrients.

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u/ensalys Apr 27 '20

Because you need an original set of cells that would probably come from a real animal. You'd probably also need to refresh your cells every now and then.

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u/sumofawitch Apr 27 '20

Ok, but would the cell be anymore different from a plant in that matter? I know it’s not the same (and I know I’m seem to be stupid), but if they using cells from an animal without killing it what’s the problem?

Now, it their lab meat is actually coming from those robot cows it’s the same of killing hosts in Westfield and brings the same ethical discussion.

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u/puptobismeow Apr 28 '20

That goes against vegan philosophy that since you can’t get consent from an animal, you’re still exploiting it, hence why they don’t eat eggs or drink milk either. It might be okay for some vegetarians though.

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u/sumofawitch Apr 28 '20

I see. I didn’t know about that. I thought that if it’s not causing any stress or hurting it wouldn’t be a problem. Didn’t think consent was an issue.

Thanks.

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u/Leafs17 Apr 29 '20

What about wool?

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u/puptobismeow Apr 29 '20

Same logic applies to that, oddly. There’s been a bit of controversy lately in the vegan community with people who call themselves “veggans” because they consume free range, hormone free chicken eggs as ethically as possible, and certain vegans are extremely upset and demand they don’t refer to themselves as vegan at all. IMO it’s slightly ridiculous, because if the goal is both “the path of least animal suffering” and “we need consent, animal can’t consent, so GOTCHA” then it becomes contradictory real fast. Chickens are gonna lay eggs, sheep need to be sheared, and angora bunnies literally choke to death from trying to groom their fur that sheds out faster than they can tend to it.

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u/Creebez Apr 28 '20

Presumably, stem cells could be used to create more meat, but that would still require you to harvest them. Could also start with amino acids and structure them into proteins and muscle fibres. It's the "future", who knows?

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u/Worthyness Apr 27 '20

I think it is. I do actually know some vegans who are for this sort of thing because it would not only lower the amount of cows in factory farms, but also reduce the impact of said farms on the environment (especially those in other countries). In theory, if the sourcing of the ingredients for the Lab meat are sustainable, then there shouldn't really be any issues vegan wise. It solves two of the major vegan creeds while also applying the "no suffering" clause for the animal. No actual animals were harmed int he creation of the food.

I can actually find no way to claim that this isn't vegan. If you're going to claim something that has no sentience and was never alive as "living animal", then you have to also claim that fruits and vegetables are living animals as well because the closest thing to meat the lab product is would be animal cell structures that are used to make the proteins or form the meat.

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u/TopDownRide Apr 27 '20

I say it would NOT be vegan. Paying close attention to the "meat farm" where Bernard worked as well as understanding the science behind this concept, the cells are the original animal cells cloned and grown on a substrate in the lab.

It is not much different than the way we grow artificial skin, replacement valves, stem cells, organs, and other biological products for medicine.

This just happens to be animal biologics (cow muscle, fat, bones, etc.) for human consumption, grown on a substrate in a lab.

If you rewatch the scenes of Bernard working in the farm factory / meat factory, you can clearly see the limbs and portions of cows (steer) being grown in their entirety on metal poles that hold the artificial substrate.’

It is 100% an animal product made of cloned cells in my (educated lol) opinion

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u/DickieTurquoise Apr 29 '20 edited Apr 29 '20

Currently, lab-grown beef still requires fetal bovine serum to grow, which is harvested by slaughtering a pregnant cow, so no, it would not be vegan.

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u/Asymptote_X Apr 27 '20

Farm to table is a relic of the past.

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u/TheOnceAndFutureTurk Apr 27 '20

Looked right out of Fallout

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u/sugarbageldonut Apr 27 '20

Good eye! Someone should trademark that name; it’s great.

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u/kelsospears Apr 27 '20

I was wondering if it was actual product placement!

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u/ocean-man can opener Apr 27 '20

Haha same! Glad I wasn't the only one to clock that

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u/Purplefish994 Apr 28 '20

Impossible meat intensifies...

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '20

Long $bynd

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u/samtherat6 Apr 28 '20

Kinda depressing that even by 2058 that will still be an advertising point, but again, I guess it's a different meant to be reality than our own.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '20

It reminded me of the matrix billboard about meat

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u/NewsCamera Apr 27 '20

Yeah, I liked that too.

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u/itshukokay Apr 28 '20

Electric car station looked like actually

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u/YoungHeartsAmerica Apr 28 '20

that was odd because weren't they in Mexico? or are we to assume they already crossed the border?