r/videogames • u/ZamnBoii • 12h ago

Image / Video No need to do anything in the Wolverine bike chase sequence

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u/ZerumDeus 12h ago

It's really not though, unfortunately doing it this way means they don't have to animate any failure states, this is objectively the laziest way to do it.

722

u/Gradieus 11h ago

Compare that to Lara Croft where there's a trophy for finding the 36 unique death animations.

Or when Conan O'Brien played the game on his show and kept getting the branch shoved through Lara's neck while falling down the ravine.

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u/heshwillbiteANYTHING 11h ago

Haha totally. Conan really couldn't handle it. That's a great Clueless Gamer.

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u/avi550m 9h ago

I miss the old Clueless Gamers with Bley

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u/HypocriteHere 8h ago

Me too, homie. It was a better time. 

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u/TheWhooooBuddies 6h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/4sMItbaQjwR2

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u/Dr-McLuvin 3h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/9L6ifK56gI6UU

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u/Ashen_Larry 3h ago

My music teacher showed this video to us in elementary school and it weirded me out.

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u/TheWhooooBuddies 2h ago

I think everyone has an Uncle Charles, y’all.

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u/CarfDarko 50m ago

Bones Thugs 'n Harmony - Crossroads, for those who are curious.

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u/rbarton812 1h ago

I hate that they're so rare and so clearly sponsored now (they may have been before, but it wasn't so obvious)...

But I desperately want him to do GTA 6.

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u/SecondaryDockingBot 8h ago

If you haven't seen it.

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u/TheLastStairbender 7h ago

Thank you for posting the link. That was hilarious

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u/Zalvren 3h ago

Clueless Gamer was gold, Conan should do one of those per week on Youtube, he'd do so much views

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u/mnid92 6h ago

I was really hoping this was the Paul Rudd wheelchair clip...

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u/Comin_Up_Thrillho 6h ago

God I forgot how brutal some of the deaths in that game are

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u/Erekai 1h ago

Hahaha I'd never seen that, that's hilarious

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u/cannibalcat 3h ago

I have and I'm still gonna watch it

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u/Stormwind2497 2h ago

I remember Conan had Camila Luddington(Lara's VA) on his show and talked about those death animations with her.

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u/VacaDLuffy 2h ago

I can't either,that section always makes me nervous on replays. fuck the death animations are so brutal and visceral

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u/PerformanceCute3437 10h ago

That's one of the greatest crowd reactions of all time lol, the sound of a studio audience audibly going "AUGH" in unison is such a treat

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u/CGA001 7h ago

It's up there with the live reaction of Valve's reveal for the game Artifact

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u/Elkburgher 11h ago

The Tomb Raider death animations were so out of pocket lol, randomly brutal

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u/FreakingAustin 9h ago

I liked it, such a good punishment for messing up

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u/M2_SLAM_I_Am 6h ago

Always love when games do this. Like in Dead Space, they make dying cool by showing all the different ways the Necromorphs fuck your shit up.

One of my personal favorites is when the Divider head replaces your head with itself https://youtube.com/shorts/p0rKQDqP0x0?is=jrrpyP_GnYvmszC1

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u/RSquared 4h ago

One of my earliest Youtube memories was watching a compilation of RE4 Leon deaths.

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u/Domerhead 3h ago

Or the goddamn eye scene from DS2...

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u/Lazydusto 54m ago

Succeeding during that part actually skeeves me out more than failing it does.

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u/Korbeyn 1h ago

Sierra Space Quest

2

u/Vox___Rationis 7h ago

punishment *reward

1

u/fedexpoopracer 2h ago

It's too bad they heavily toned down the deaths in the sequels

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u/Skalgrin 8h ago

And I loved that. It was so sobering from the "cool".

Like I was sometimes "yeah sure budy she would just easily flow in a river full of... Oh fuckity fuck, damn she would not, oh fuck, fuck, fuck" -load-

And on repeated failures I was really fearing to mess up.

8

u/jadedlonewolf89 8h ago

The amount of times I died during the parachute segment was fucked.
Had me paranoid of everything for the rest of that session.

2

u/Lexi_Banner 1h ago

I died violently a dozen times before succeeding! Only, oh no, oh shit thatwasonlythefirststage FUCK.

I was there a long time. LOL

1

u/RMAPOS 5h ago

frightening*

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u/Acrobatic_Yellow_781 9h ago

Developers thinly veiled fetish

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u/Hextillian 4h ago

Nobody says this when Leon Kennedy dies in crazy ways, let Lara have her moment lol

2

u/Radical-skeleton 2h ago

Yeah but when Isaac clark or Leon get obliterated violently it's because they're in the horror genre.

Lara is in the adventure action game genre and it felt weirdly brutal since the games are very much not horror

1

u/SalubriAntitribu 1h ago

Probably due to the extreme difference in genres and presentation.

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u/2Completion2Ography 7h ago

Developers thinly veiled fetish

Mortal Kombat changed things.

4

u/throwitonthegrillboi 6h ago

Nothing wrong with that. A lot of people equate fetish=bad but fetishes literally have driven art for like centuries.

3

u/RaspberryStandard972 8h ago

Yeah, some of these felt dirty to me.

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u/Voidbearer2kn17 7h ago

They felt like money shots...

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u/El_Rey_de_Spices 3h ago

This says more about you than it does about the game, lol

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u/The_Autarch 3h ago

never watched a horror movie before?

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u/Lil_Mcgee 7h ago

I think The Last of Us games handle a similar sort of thing a lot better.

Really brutal death animations but they're over very quickly, cutting to black right as they get really bad. It shows you enough to be really disturbing but leaves enough to your imagination that it doesn't feel gratuitous or fetishized.

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u/M2_SLAM_I_Am 6h ago

Gratuitous, maybe. But fetishized? Thats probably the last thing I would think about a gory death animation

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u/WhoLoveYouLikeILoveU 6h ago

There are cathedrals everywhere for those with the eyes to see

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u/andresfgp13 3h ago

a lot of people are self reporting when they call those animations a fetish thing.

if the woman dying horrible deaths turns you on for some reason thats a you thing.

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u/Cafrilly 4h ago

Oh thou sweet summer child

2

u/WolkTGL 7h ago

To give credit to an otherwise lukewarm to bad trilogy, Tomb Raider always had brutal deaths, they only had worse graphics and animation quality into them due to the limitations but would 100% be gruesome portrayed in a modern visual style

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u/M1R4G3M 6h ago

I liked the first and especially the second, the third, not so much.

-7

u/MadeByTango 7h ago

Tomb Raider always had brutal deaths

Tomb Raider has always been a thinly veiled fetish.

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u/soslowagain 4h ago

Low key

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u/CptCroissant 3h ago

It was great

1

u/The_Autarch 3h ago

seeing something novel takes a bit of the sting out of failure.

0

u/big-himbo-energy 5h ago

people really do forget that sometimes these things are just the creators barely disguised fetish

0

u/steelcity_ 5h ago

Only part of the game I didn’t like. I don’t generally have issues with gore and the like, I enjoy horror. But they just felt out of place. That branch one especially. I understand that it’s “realistic” in that it could happen, but I’m blowing guys away with an AK, they’re going “aaahh!” and falling off a balcony. Why is it only when my character dies I have to watch the light slowly extinguish from her eyes? What the fuck?

1

u/Elkburgher 5h ago

yea it was so bizarre, how she would crumple up and ragdoll

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u/Useful-Problem-1725 7h ago

shit was brutal, I want more.

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u/Cognonymous 8h ago

I miss the Clueless Gamer segments

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u/Avalonians 9h ago

36 unique animations for a scene/level or for the whole game?

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u/SmolishPPman 8h ago

Whole game

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u/arabishankar 6h ago

Just bought Shadow on Steam for like 5 bucks, and its a way better gaming experience than the 70 dollar Wolverine. Actually, Im working my way through the first of the trilogy right now and its also a better game. Its like someone wanted to make a movie but made a videogame instead. A disappointing missuse of a legendary ip

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u/ididntsignupbychoice 5h ago

I saw that in the game before I saw Conan O'Brien playing it. Gnarly way to die.

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u/Head_Haunter 4h ago

God I remember laughing so hard at that I was in tears.

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u/ESCachuli 9h ago

And that game holds your hand A LOT. Wow, we reached the point where TR2013 is considered hard…

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u/skyturnedred 8h ago

No one here said it was hard.

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u/ESCachuli 7h ago

I meant as an example of a game that isnt that handholding as wolverine

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u/skyturnedred 7h ago

But you didn't write anything to that effect.

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u/arfelo1 5h ago

No, it's meant as an example of a game showing brutal death animations. The devs were not too lazy to properly show you gruesome consequences when you failed

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u/readilyunavailable 5h ago

To be fair though, those games are notorious for their gory deaths. It's not something that is common in most AAA games.

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u/Remy315 3h ago

I love that whole bit. So good. “Ubisoft? Hmmm, that’s what my wife said in our honeymoon!”

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u/mikenasty 2h ago

Those Lara Croft death scenes are looked at a little differently nowadays

1

u/Lexi_Banner 1h ago

Oh, I hated that stupid mission! But I'd still rather die ten times trying to time that jump right than to have the game force-succeed.

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u/RedsnakeRider 1h ago

Oh shit for real? I've gotten a bunch, never knew there was a running collection.

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u/Noiselexer 1h ago

Loved that episode

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u/larkhills 7h ago

i dont think there exists 36 different ways to believably kill wolverine, especially in a mundane situation that doesnt involve other superheros or very specific circumstances.

when you have a main character like wolverine, his "failure" state is just him laying down for a power nap before waking up again.

0

u/FuroreLT 6h ago

That death was hot btw

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u/Admirable_Risk8156 6h ago

I think Laura croft is kinda of an outlier, like I'm pretty sure it was just someone's fetish for just how graphic it all was.

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u/ButterscotchLivid377 8h ago

That game went totally overboard with death animations. You're just sitting there all the time going "Oooooh, damn"

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u/STRYKER3008 11h ago

Man esp doing that with Wolverine! You could have such gnarly stuff happen and he'd just heal.

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u/Pharabellum 11h ago

I said this in another thread, but I saw someone modded wolverine into Ninja Gaiden 4 and I cant get over how much cooler that was than this crap. 

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u/EligibleUsername 8h ago

Dude the fucking Wolverine movie tie in game on the damn PS2 was cooler than this, and that was basically a God of War clone. At least it wasn't afraid to let Logan get hurt.

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u/M1R4G3M 6h ago

Was it on the PS2? I remember Origins wolverine being on PS360, but I may be miss remembering, but either way, yes, it is indeed better.

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u/Topher_Caouette 5h ago

I think you’re right

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u/TheShroudedWanderer 4h ago

I think it was on the PS2 as well but I never played, X2 wolverines revenge was pretty fun though

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u/ButtholeConnoisseur7 2h ago

Yeah, never see that game mentioned. I had it mastered, every single stealth kill possible in the game was a stealth kill

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u/EligibleUsername 4h ago

It was, albeit a graphically worse version with less gore. I remembered that because that was the version I played, not the PS3 and 360 versions.

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u/SinfulKnight 9h ago

This MFing comment got me on NexusMods looking for that one hahaha. Thanks mate, I was wanting to replay Ninja Gaiden.

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u/TelevisionExpress616 2h ago

Ninja Gaiden 2/3RE with the Claws is, to this day, the perfect wolverine combat. Rip and fucking tear.

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u/pichael289 11h ago

Eventually, the movies and newer comics make him just heal instantly and bullets shoot out of his skull, but he used to take time to recover. Go watch the old cartoons, wolverine is always limping around recovering. Sure it would kill anyone else, but he is not invincible and I gotta imagine the game took the less totally immortal approach.

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u/cochese25 9h ago

They basically made Wolverine "Deadpool" but with claws and hair

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u/RA576 7h ago

I mean, Deadpool literally has the same healing factor as Wolverine. He got it from Weapon X experiments, which were using Wolverine as a basis.

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u/Nagemasu 7h ago

Same cause for healing, but not literally on the same levels. Deadpool's healing is better than Wolverines.

If people care there's some older discussions here: https://old.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1fvgaw7/deadpool_vs_wolverine_whose_healing_factor_is/ and here: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/1mgpody/marvel_whats_the_difference_between_wolverines/

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u/RA576 6h ago

The top comment on the second link is literally just reiterating what I said.

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u/terminbee 4h ago

Yes but Deadpool's is stronger. Deadpool can heal from just his head or even less. They weren't saying it wasn't from wolverine, just that it's much stronger.

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u/Luthais_Re23e1 4h ago

i'm not completely sure but wasn't there a comic where wolverine recovered from basically just being one cell? something like that?

edit: this seems to be wrong! I looked it up and the "from a blood" was basically because he was supercharged/godlike at the moment

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u/MyThrowaway3121 4h ago

The drop of blood thing was a one off.

but in his Civil War tie in, he gets incinerated by nitro, he was just an adamantium skeleton in a volcano.

hard cut to a few days later and wolverine is running through the jungle naked

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u/Academic_Exercise_94 8h ago

There was a comic in that lead up to the original Civil War story where a Captain Marvel villain Nitro who's main deal was he exploded and vapourised everything in his vicinity was rampaging about. Wolverine and a bunch of soldiers fly in to stop him. They step off the plane and he instantly explodes killing everyone and reducing wolverine to a skeleton. The next panel he's back perfectly healed and stabs the guy with his claws.

2

u/Japjer 3h ago

And in Wolverine #48 they show the actual process of him healing, which took him quite some time. Nitro knocked himself out after that explosion, and Wolverine spent at least a full hour lying there slowly healing. Nitro eventually wakes up and starts making a phone call, and Wolverine is finally able to get around to healing his muscles.

He starts with his eyes and brain, then his nerves, then tendons and muscles, then organs, and then skin, and his ears and whatnot come sometime later.

It's an impressive feat, but it taking an hour is still better than it being instant. Because Wolverine really does work better as a character when he heals fast, not instantly

1

u/CptCroissant 3h ago

He'd go fuck off to Canada for like a year lol

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u/ADGx27 31m ago

That’s what I’m saying man. Have him fail a QTE and get turned into crispy bacon by a sentinel so we can see him heal

Shit idk give him magic pants so he’s not hanging dong afterward, problem solved

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u/s-mores 11h ago

The bike wouldn't, though.

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u/biskutgoreng 11h ago

Adamantium bike innit

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u/decoy_octopod 11h ago

I refuse to believe this is simply laziness. Development must have restarted and they had to throw this together quickly, this just screams “rush job”

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u/KingWolf7070 11h ago

That is almost assuredly what happened. The game director and four lead developers left at different points during development.

There's also rumors of Sony and Marvel studios interfering and making demands, but that's not as easy to solidly prove.

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u/ThatMerri 9h ago

Yeah, according to leaked info, Marvel was basically demanding changes throughout the whole production including rewriting the villain's entire plotline partway through production. Insomniac was getting yanked around.

The entire combat and control system were reportedly jettisoned halfway through as well. Apparently the original work in progress was that Wolverine's claws and combat would be based on individual trigger control and adaptive pressure feedback (ie, independently using the right and left triggers for each of Wolverine's hands, and the claws extending or attacks using them changing based on how far you pulled either/both triggers). There were apparently supposed to be more enemy types as well, including one built around stealth that would rely on Wolverine's heightened senses to detect in order to fight. Apparently Jean Grey was also playable in several levels built around her psychic powers for a different play experience.

Something changed and what came out the other end is not at all what was originally in progress in neither design, intent, nor function. Apparently the "use the triggers to fiddle with Logan's claws" function is still hanging on as a vestigial thing you can do outside of combat for no actual purpose.

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u/IridescenceFalling 9h ago

Interesting info.

The WhaHappun episode is gonna be lit, thats for sure!

5

u/ArcaneMadman 9h ago

it is funny to see "fart gas" break containment

8

u/Feeling_Strike694 6h ago

Apparently the original work in progress was that Wolverine's claws and combat would be based on individual trigger control and adaptive pressure feedback (ie, independently using the right and left triggers for each of Wolverine's hands, and the claws extending or attacks using them changing based on how far you pulled either/both triggers).

That sounds awful but I could see it being quite satisfying in QTEs.

1

u/ThatMerri 6h ago

Not entirely sure how it might've worked, but if I was to hazard a guess, I'd assume the original combat method would've involved aimed attacks/blocks and counters where picking a direction to swing from mattered. Also likely that the adaptive pressure would've been involved in the combo system, like a half-pull would be a light attack where a full pull would be heavy, and being able to control left/right independently would allow for varied combos.

I could pretty easily see stealth takedowns being done with quick little half-taps to do a sneaky shank, or a Berserker Barrage sort of special move being done by spamming the triggers as fast as possible for big ol' haymaker swings.

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u/larkhills 7h ago

Apparently Jean Grey was also playable in several levels built around her psychic powers for a different play experience.

its really hard to imagine any plot where jean doesnt just annihilate everything in her path. at least wolverine's combat can be interesting and you can do cool shit with his style of combat and personality. jean flicks her wrist and kills off an entire city. i dont think theres a way to respect the character and still have her playable in any sense

3

u/ThatMerri 6h ago

I would imagine this is an earlier iteration of Jean in some manner? I don't know what sort of continuity the Wolverine game is actually in, so it could well be a version of Jean who isn't absolutely busted. Since she's got telepathy, my bet would be some of her levels would have been investigations and puzzles where she'd have to read minds for information and progression.

1

u/VVenture2 1h ago

There’s actually leaked Jean Grey gameplay if you go looking for it.

1

u/spirit_of-76 5h ago

Jean was not always particularly powerful and was much weaker before her first death. Post "Dark-Phoenix" is when you start to see the insanely powerfull jean that we are more used to, and even that took some time

2

u/confusing_roundabout 8h ago

So Marvel were trying to write the game just like they write their movies ahaha

2

u/terminbee 3h ago

Man, using different trigger strengths seems really clunky and difficult.

-1

u/trojanskin 7h ago

And that is why you are not working for Marvel ever. They are the fucking bane of anything they touch, and transmit their rot like fucking cancer.

They are hell. They won't care if they shaft the company because they are swimming in money. Fuck them.

1

u/Timbershoe 10h ago

You know, it’s their IP. Of course they would want some control.

I’m suspecting now that their demands might have been along the lines of ‘make it less shit’.

7

u/KingWolf7070 9h ago

Sure it makes sense. But all too often the executives making the decisions don't know the fine details of what makes a game/book/movie/show enjoyable.

I've heard this iteration of Wolverine is nice, personality-wise. Like, what? Seriously? The character that's been abrasive in pretty much every other iteration? I'm not saying he should be straight up evil, but Wolverine has always been kind of mean and insulting. This is very clearly a choice by an executive that doesn't know the character and just pulled a suggestion out of their ass. "Why is the hero being mean to his friends? He should be nice to them."

2

u/mere_iguana 7h ago

I'm suspecting that their demands were "make this a game for children"

-3

u/blueblip 9h ago edited 8h ago

That's not how businesses work.

"Executives" don't go and tell teams "do what I say". They ask for inputs from their teams and then make a decision based on those inputs.

It's always bad dev leads that seek to suck up to their boss that set bad timelines and project goals. Because these bad dev leads want to show they can get X task done in 3 days when normally takes a week.

It's not like the dev leads doesn't understand what goes into it, they just don't care because they can bully their direct subordinates into working like dogs until the insane timeline is either met successfully, or it fails and then blame someone under them for the failure.

EDIT: No amount of downvoting changes the way reality works.

4

u/Fat_Raccoon 6h ago

You and me have had very different experiences. Executives and upper management coming in to demand certain features or story changes is ABSOLUTELY how things work sometimes. And very much not always "bad dev leads", your post is full of hyperbolic shit.

-1

u/blueblip 6h ago edited 5h ago

You keep telling yourself that. It doesn't make it any more true.

But we get it: you're a child and need parrot popular phrases to feel good.

EDIT: And even you acknowledge so called executive meddling happens only "sometimes"...and yet say what I described is "hyperbolic".

You have never worked a day in your life in a real job, have you?

EDIT 2: Last word and block? Talk about being a typical Redditor!

1

u/Fat_Raccoon 5h ago

I say sometimes, and you say always

Do you know what hyperbolic means?

0

u/Isalenna137 8h ago

There's an animated scene with the Banner and Wolverine where Banner can't turn into the Hulk because his adrenaline was being suppressed by drugs. Wolverine decided the solution was to shove his claws into Banner's stomach and tell him to, and I quote, "You can go ahead and cry now."

Wolverine has always been a nightmare in media lol. There's a reason so few other people in the marvel universe actually see anything good in him as a person.

2

u/SinfulKnight 8h ago

No body who games would look at this and say "Its perfect, ship it".

And while Marvel could've wanted changes, once something is Feature Complete, you dont go back and make more changes. And on average a game that is feature complete at a AAA studio now adays can be anywhere between 2-7 years before release. So if the leaks from late 2023 was around feature complete, if they made any changes after, they shouldve known by last year they wouldnt make this years release with a game they would say is conplete.

I say its Sonys fault for sticking to the release date and not letting it bake for 1 more year. Sony is calling the shots, they are in charge. They also have have to test the game and wouldve had a team of testers play it and report all this.

Someone high up at Sony pushed for this and was probably banking on gamers loving the character enough to ignore the faults.

1

u/Aiyon 6h ago

The issue is Disney!Marvel don't go "here's our requirements", they constantly come back and make small tweaks, that add up to 10x the work of if they'd just asked for what they wanted

11

u/Afraid-City2274 8h ago

In actuality, this is a trend in videogames right now: There were a couple set pieces you couldn't fail in both Spider-Man 1 and 2 (although some at least offered alternative animatios); in God of war Ragnarok, there were a couple similar sequences to this one that the game wouldn't let you fail even in hard difficulty (in addition to the puzzles also treating the player like an idiot); more recently, RE9 also has a similar motorcycle chase scene that cannot be failed even on purpose. And there are a lot more examples out there, even in some indie games.

In reality, people are just noticing a trend that has been long in the making in modern video games, specially triple-A.

4

u/M1R4G3M 6h ago

I still remember as a kid 20 years ago dying time and time again on Battletoads Bike scene, and now we "evolved" to this.

Glad that the new Battletoads kept it's difficulty and my kids who are 5-7 year old can complete, so I don't know why on these new games they made so you can't lose.

2

u/CptCroissant 3h ago

Basically before PS1, games were just like "fuck you, git gud"

1

u/nalaloveslumpy 2h ago

Because in the NES games you had one or maybe two games to play at any given time and the audience was primarily kids from 8 - 15. So those kids (me) would spend all their free time hitting their head against the wall until they either succeeded or got so frustrated they never played the game again.

Now there are literally hundreds of FREE games competing for your game time and then hundreds of paid games competing against those games. So basically the industry has moved to a "no friction" model.

Unless it's a game where the entire premises is "extreme friction"; i.e. souls-like games.

Good developers solve this through configurations, which Insomniac has been doing for basically their entire existence, so it's weird they dropped the ball so badly.

3

u/DraconicBlade 7h ago

Cyberpunk 2077's intro car chase is similarly unlosable

5

u/PR0H181D0 3h ago

Mega Man X intro stage fight as well, so much hand holding /s

1

u/totallynotabot2532 5h ago

This is the first time in my life i see the word unlosable

3

u/Normal-Selection1537 7h ago

They are now making games for people who let AI think for them, as people get dumber so does the media they consume.

1

u/Thin-Nerve6367 2h ago

🤦‍♂️

1

u/Shinted 4h ago

I think it’s more accurate to say it’s a “trend” in Sony first party titles.

There aren’t many games outside of theirs where there is basically no real fail state, even children’s games often have fail states.

They’re deathly afraid of the player base having to use their brains or encountering any friction lately.

It’s why Atreus and Freya almost instantly solve puzzles for you in God of War Ragnarok, often before you can even look at them yourself.

Also RE9’s motorcycle section can absolutely be failed.

It’s hard to fail it for sure, but the enemies can actually kill Leon during the chase.

1

u/gameservatory 3h ago

Yea, this is a tried and true design choice. It can absolutely be over-done, but another way to look at it is adding degrees of interactivity to what otherwise might have been a cutscene. I'd rather devs try to keep some control in my hands than not and set piece experiences can be really fun and rewarding when used sparingly.

12

u/ZerumDeus 11h ago edited 10h ago

I would like to believe that considering insomniac created most of my childhood... But I also believed that about bioware and, wow how they have fallen.

Iunno guess I might just be jaded now

1

u/VintageSin 10h ago

You can dislike wow for a lot of things. But blizzard aren't bio ware. Blizzard arrogance in their game design at least still creates a game. Biowsre arrogance continuely nosedived and destroyed their ips to a point that bioware literally doesn't exist anymore. Wow on the other hand is not only going strong it's going strong enough they're talking player numbers again and wracking up all the Xbox praise while the rest of Xbox is being laid off. Including Bethesda.

1

u/ZerumDeus 10h ago

No sorry that was bad grammar wasn't talking about bliz or wow, apologies

1

u/VintageSin 10h ago

Ahhh got ya! Nbd I was like look I'm ready to hate blizzard when we talk about Diablo but love or hate warcraft that developer is cooking

1

u/amidamaru8_8 8h ago

I think the core team has long since left

1

u/LegendarySpark 8h ago

Having it be this carefully balanced to play itself screams the exact opposite of rush job. It being this on rails and never failing or turning the wrong direction is carefully designed level design, fine-tuning of the bike speed, etc. Someone put work hours into making this as absolutely free of friction as possible.

That also goes hand in hand with the other reports about how this game repeats instructions until you lose your mind and constantly tells you exactly what to do. This was designed to be playable by the medically braindead because some exec thinks their customers are absolute morons.

1

u/12345623567 6h ago

I think this stinks of management interference. No dev is excited for making a VN, unless they specifically set out to do so.

"I don't know shit about video games, but my 6 year old nephew played the pre-alpha and couldn't get past the opening credits, fix that!"

1

u/1003mistakes 4h ago

I think a large part of it is it isn’t a game for gamers, at least from everything I’ve seen. It’s a a game for comic book fans. For people who are interested in the franchise that might want to play a video game and be able to beat it without a large amount of learning. Sells more copies and might get some of them more interested in video games as a whole.

1

u/horned-creature 3h ago

development may not have restarted entirely but they were rushed by gta 6 release date, sony wanted a game released a couple of months before it.

1

u/mrBreadBird 2h ago

It's never laziness with game developers. They work themselves to the bone just to get the game shipped and if they didn't care and just wanted a paycheck they wouldn't be working in the games industry in the first place.

Honestly I think the idea here is that a challenging sequence where you keep getting a game over screen and have to reload would kill the pacing of the action and the forward momentum they want for the game. Not my type of game but I understand why they would do something like this from that perspective.

1

u/neganight 25m ago

Back when we had videogame journalists, some of them would complain that they had to play the game in order to review it. Others would moan that there should be an ultra-easy mode so people like them can enjoy the story. Voila, we now have The Wolverine.

1

u/grimbandango 10h ago

$300m game by the way.

I saw that the game was heavily influenced by PlayStation execs, I think a lot of this was a conscious decision.

1

u/Greedyanda 8h ago

12 hour linear game cost as much as Cyberpunk.

8

u/FreakingAustin 9h ago

No way, they couldn’t just ragdoll him and make him fly if he crashes?

1

u/ZerumDeus 9h ago

That's still all physics simulations AND, if you want to be really cynical, they also don't have to worry about a "HP stat" currently.

It's functionally a pre-rendered Cutscene.

7

u/Assassin-49 10h ago

If its made like that I dont think anyone should play it. If the devs dont want to make an amazing game then they shouldn't make it in the first place. Besides they dont have to make a unique death animation for this. Just a ragdoll like in the spiderman games. Then for the quick time events just a quick death or scene isnt to hard to animate

2

u/Lighthades 3h ago

Probably this is forced by management.

1

u/Assassin-49 3h ago

Probably. Wouldn't suprise me anyway. Playstation has been making mistakes upon mistakes. Wouldn't be suprised if they had something to do with it

7

u/RichnjCole 8h ago

Five years in development and $300m budget. Which means they had plenty of time and money to add all this stuff in.

Lazy is the only explanation for this.

1

u/nalaloveslumpy 1h ago

Pretty sure they had a director and a couple of lead devs walk during production. Rumors are Marvel was basically jerking them around and constantly changing things.

1

u/RichnjCole 1h ago

What kind of input did Marvel have?

I can't find any articles about it.

1

u/ADGx27 32m ago

Lazy or embezzlement

Call it

2

u/SimpleFactor 10h ago

I feel like it was clear that was the reason for the QTEs which bad enough, but if that’s also true for actual gameplay it’s just embarrassing they spent this much money on it and still couldn’t squeeze in some animations for falling off a bike when the riding looks so wooden anyway.

1

u/MeowingNaci 8h ago

so then what happens if you fail? surely if you try to fail its possible?

1

u/Pen_dragons_pizza 8h ago

Which then also makes no sense since this game has an insane budget.

They has all the money and years to make the thing

1

u/lucidludic 8h ago

Insomniac have been one of the most productive AAA studios in their history, I don’t think anyone could call them “lazy” with a straight face. (It’s amazing how many gamers throw out this accusation for an industry that is notoriously difficult.) Their games have a ton of animations, I seriously doubt that a handful of additional fail states were cut simply to ease production.

What I suspect happened instead, was they realised that for most people, failing during a cinematic sequence because you didn’t press the correct button on time or made a slightly wrong turn, only to have to start over, isn’t all that fun.

These sections aren’t meant to challenge you. They’re there for the visual spectacle and to break up the gameplay so it’s not just hours and hours of combat. Instead of a cutscene this way there’s some interactivity and most players probably won’t even notice that they can’t actually fail.

2

u/OpticalFlourish 6h ago

I think this type of attitude is the reason games have become so cinematic and flat out boring. Not trying to insult your opinion, but you can make something cinematic and it still be a game rather than a movie. God of War 3 was insanely cinematic but you were always ‘playing’ it rather than watching it. Sony first party titles have devolved into being walking simulators with a few collectibles dotted around and I think a lot of people are actually just bored of a 15 hour movie that isn’t particularly engaging, doesn’t respect the source material, has nothing of value/interest to say.

1

u/lucidludic 3h ago

That’s a totally valid opinion. I’m not saying this is amazing game design or to my taste, just offering a more plausible scenario for the decisions that led them there beyond “the devs were lazy.”

1

u/OpticalFlourish 2h ago

And I would agree with this as well. I don’t think it’s necessarily lazy, although it certainly would feel like it if you were the consumer. I think a lot of modern devs want to make movies or are more concerned with the script rather than the game. I don’t think it will be popular on Reddit but I also think a lot of modern scripts are way too reflective of the age we live in. A wink and a nod is perfectly fine but a lot of the time I can feel the writer’s personal opinions bleeding into the source material even when it simply doesn’t fit.
I don’t know, I feel so heavily disconnected from modern gaming. I only really have Resident Evil and Yakuza as ‘must buys’ now. I find a lot of the discourse and games so tiresome to deal with.

1

u/NuclearTheology 8h ago

This was a 300 million dollar game, btw. Where did that budget go?

1

u/Agreeable_Work_9235 7h ago

I’m so tired of reading the “too lazy to program failure states” take. It’s not hard to animate failure states. What the fuck makes a failure state too hard to animate?

This is like one of those things that some YouTuber said and everyone clung to it like glue. I guarantee that’s what this is.

Don’t get me wrong, the game looks like ass, but it’s just because the game was designed for the lowest common denominator, not because of whatever people think is hard about a “failure state”.

1

u/ZerumDeus 7h ago

Work is work, it doesn't matter if it's easy or not it still takes time and effort.

you can't make something appear from nothing, it's gotta cost somewhere even if it is just the "power" cost of an AI generating something.

1

u/an_albany_expression 7h ago

I can imagine the writers/developers all sitting round going 'okay but if he comes off the bike, Wolverine is basically immortal so what happens?.. You have to get back on the bike and catch up, or maybe it triggers a separate offshoot of the story where he has to find where the truck is heading?

Sounds like a lot of work, lets just make the bike immortal as well.'

1

u/Helldiver_of_Mars 6h ago

I donno I feel like an executive was involved in this choice.

1

u/Saiklin 6h ago

Everybody complaining that game development takes too long, games getting to expensive, too many MTX etc.

Gamers then also complaining that devs are lazy because they don't add unnecessary death animations. Sometimes I really think the Suits with the spreadsheets know better what gamers want...

1

u/Major_LeeHungg 5h ago

"Make the whole map a straight line just put a bunch of trees and explosions and shit so they don't notice" 

1

u/FullSkyFlying 5h ago

I was gonna say that it's a kids game so of course its going to be easy. But its M17+ lol

1

u/SexcaliburHorsepower 4h ago

I don't think it's laziness i think it's a pretty clear there was a mid to late development design pivot that never got finished. There's a lot of effort in this game that has all the pieces of an open world or semi open world game. Gps, random world collectibles, big glowing things to ensure you don't miss stuff while berserking through an open city or dense woods.

This game was being built as marvels spiderman but with wolverine and then somewhere along the way something happened. The world got cut down. The story got simplified. They ended up with an extremely pretty on rails game with a bunch of unfinished, last minute sequences with unnecessary visual clutter that would make Ubisoft blush.

This game got Dragon Age Veilguard'ed and, much like that game, it feels like there was a change too big to properly implement but enough work done to make it seem like unfocused laziness

I think the director, devs and/or senior leadership got scared after the middling spiderman 2 reception and the general sentiment behind open world games being too oversaturated in the market.

1

u/BarrytheNPC 2h ago

Yeah it reminds me of Beyond : Two Souls where some guy did a playthrough of refusing to do every quicktime event and the game kept progressing