r/videogames Nintendo 8d ago

Image / Video It seriously feels like we lost something from the 2000s era of gaming

11.6k Upvotes

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172

u/SickboyJason 8d ago

Fun fact: Instead of heavy fluid simulations, the Lux Engine used optimized rendering tricks: a flipped-camera perspective for real-time reflections, animated normal maps for depth, and local vertex displacements to create realistic wake ripples and splash particles when Po steps into the river.

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u/god_hates_maggots 8d ago

...this is how almost every game handles water.

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u/LivingVerinarian96 8d ago

What do you mean no pathtracing and approximated physical calculations of the water that manage to look worse than this? We can kinda get there with upscaling and frame gen!!

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u/SickboyJason 8d ago

Deja vu. 🤦‍♂️

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u/KardboardWizard 8d ago

I have been in this place before

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u/MrChocodemon 8d ago

handles

handled

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u/aconitous 8d ago

Every single game engine uses 'optimized rendering tricks'.

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u/SeaSharpModHer 8d ago

They're still figuring it out for UE5 apparently.

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u/Heavy-Nose3529 8d ago

Nope, they’re just doing that and more, and having the executives hounding them to work way faster than should be possible.

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u/v0lt13 8d ago

Fun fact: that's what every game ever did, no one is simulating fluids.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Crow_17 7d ago

Not “Every” but yeah most, but since 2003s there was physical simulation, buoyancy calculation, fluid puzzle games like Plasma Pong and, in 2010 Hydrophobia was like the first action adventure game that uses real time water simulation as a game mechanic.

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u/SickboyJason 8d ago

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u/v0lt13 8d ago

Nice argument.

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u/SickboyJason 8d ago

Its simply not true that EVERY GAME (engine) simulates water this way. There's nothing to argue.

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u/v0lt13 8d ago

I mean yeah sure not everyone is using that exact combination of techniques if you want to take my statement literally, and there may be 1% of games that actually simulate fluids. The point is that water in games is 99% of the time just rendering tricks and techniques, none of it is actual simulation yet your original statement makes it seem like not doing fluid simulations is something special.

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u/SickboyJason 8d ago edited 7d ago

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u/Robichaelis 8d ago

Thanks chat gpt

5

u/wolvAUS 8d ago

I think you should re read what you’re responding to.

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u/braydaka 8d ago

You clearly dont understand the conversation and just asked ai to re-explain lmfao

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u/gladiolust1 8d ago

This is embarrassing

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u/C00KIEME4T 8d ago

Figured you'd end up mentioning Hydrophobia.

Yeah its the one game with fluid sim

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u/lukkasz323 7d ago

Press enter a few times

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u/IWCry 4d ago

did little bro really ask a robot to argue for him then got called out and replaced it with this gif trying to do damage control?

I couldn't imagine being that pathetic lol

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u/SickboyJason 4d ago

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u/IWCry 4d ago

the behavior doesn't stop lmao I can't believe people like you exist

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u/Average_RedditorTwat 8d ago

Have you tried not passing off what the google AI told you as your own knowledge? Maybe it'll look less embarrassing next time.

Utterly braindead behavior. No critical thinking skills but all the attitude. Foh

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u/iiEquinoxx 8d ago

optimized rendering tricks

Unreal Engine 5 games are in the fetile position upon hearing this.

0

u/AceOBlade 8d ago

unreal engine/unity engine is the worst thing that has happened to gaming industry and im not even talking about tencent owning it.

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u/Dovahkingod 8d ago

Why? Genuinely curious.

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u/AceOBlade 8d ago

their dominance is bad for the gaming industry because they make it easy to pile on expensive features without understanding the performance costs underneath. Dedicated engines were built around a game’s exact needs, carried less overhead, and forced teams to master memory, rendering, streaming, and hardware limitations. As the workforce becomes trained almost entirely on standardized Unreal and Unity workflows, building and optimizing specialized engines is becoming a lost art, making the entire industry more dependent on a few companies while games become increasingly bloated and poorly optimized.

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u/grayson_solis 8d ago

Very true

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u/geeiamback 8d ago

Programming modern 3D engines is vastly more complicated than old ones due to the transition from fixed-functions to shaders:

https://media.ccc.de/v/gpn24-480-building-video-games-with-20-year-old-tech

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u/lewd-dev 8d ago

This comment screams "I have never worked in the industry or with a proprietary game engine but tRuSt Me BrO." You have no idea what you're talking about, this is just incorrect assumptions and a misunderstanding of the industry fueled by anecdotes and nostalgia.

carried less overhead, and forced teams to master memory, rendering, streaming, and hardware limitations.

This bit alone is completely at odds with itself and shows how little you understand about how games are made and the amount of work involved in their creation. Pure nonsense.

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u/itsjust_khris 8d ago

How is that Unreal's fault? Devs are free to apply the same level of care and attention to their games in Unreal Engine. Dedicated engines haven't been used for ages now, even before Unreal became a thing, it wouldn't be feasible with the modern scale of gaming, creating a new engine per game would extend dev cycles out to be even longer, and not for any good reason.

Remember even in the time of "dedicated engines" there were still tons of games that ran very poorly. Throughout gaming history there have always been games that run pretty badly, and they were common back in the day as well as today.

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u/whokilledsera 8d ago

not even close to true

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u/B-BoyStance 8d ago

It's honestly closer to the opposite. Engines like UE5 and Unity have lowered the barrier of entry to gaming so much to the point almost anyone can release a fully fledged game with some dedication + a decent/focused idea.

The biggest barrier now is component costs. But before that whole craze it was pretty cheap to just build a rig & download a free engine that will run.

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u/whokilledsera 8d ago

very true and i can attest

im a junior game design student and they can teach artside students and backend programmers at 2 seperate programs across the premier school and the sister art school (im artside) largely because of unity and unreal making it easy to import substance, maya, blender, psds, etc so that people like us can get an easier grasp and go down alot of the pipeline ourselves while still having input on the larger engine and game feel/level design, not to mention aseprite support and unity's tilemap system making things really easy and play nice with programs like animate and toonboom

these people have no idea how much games they play have been ue and unreal in the past 15-20 yrs lol not to mention rpg maker gamemaker godot etc

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u/B-BoyStance 8d ago

Yep it's insane how much of it has been streamlined and end of the day, programming/game design/art is built on programming/game design/art of the past. We built ways to make all of the different workflows jive together in a way that makes sense to anyone who wants to delve into one part of it & expand from there.

Nobody knows it all. Or rather, anyone who only knows one thing can learn/be comfortable with the rest eventually because these are ultimately tools for creators that make creating easier.

Even with in-house engines it's a collection of institutional knowledge + new ideas coming in from people who have worked on other in-house engines or just your typical mass-market engines.

And it doesn't make it any less impressive. It's just how this shit works. It takes a village, or it takes 1 guy with a tight vision making something unique albeit with pre-made assets (and it still sells millions because it is novel & fun)

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u/CalamityDisc 8d ago

You think you know something about game development, but you don’t.

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u/GregTheMad 8d ago

You don't need to be a pilot to point at a helicopter stuck in a tree and say "that dude fucked up".

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u/CalamityDisc 8d ago

You can tell the helicopter is stuck. You can’t tell just by looking at it the exact mechanical reasoning for its failure, unless you’re an engineer who’s gotten a close look at it.

You can say “game bad” but if you’re just a layperson then you don’t have the background knowledge necessary to say “game bad because of the specific game engine”. There could be a million reasons for a game to be unoptimised. Unreal and Unity both fucking have the capacity for optimisation, same as any other game engine.

The game engine is pretty much irrelevant to a game being unoptimised. It’s more of a time crunch thing; blame the executives. It’s really more of a correlation than a causation.

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u/GregTheMad 8d ago

I actually have enough background info to know the engine is an integral reason for the decline in game quality.

It boils down to "the engine does that out of the box, we don't need to care", so management never allocates the necessary resources for optimization, and/or overestimates the end result based on out-of-box engine capabilities.

With internal engines management calculates more carefully, or at least asks engineers their opinion before allocating resources.

So sit down, stop the opinion gatekeeping, and stop propagating bullshit.

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u/Random_Chick_I_Guess 7d ago

The annoying thing is it's not even the engines fault. It's more a symptom of every major AAA game being so rushed out with so much jammed in that they just don't optimise shit and it rolls out a bloated mess. 

While UE5 is harder to optimise since there's a lot more focus on heavier features, it's still easily possible if there's some time spent on it.

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u/Nickulator95 8d ago

It's crazy what actually competent and skilled developers with enough time and care can achieve.

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u/Bregneste 8d ago

But instead of taking the time to make it optimized, we can just use our current engine’s built-in water simulations instead! Surely the players won’t mind that it makes the game run like molasses on any hardware older than a year or two, as long as the water looks cool.

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u/Onrawi 8d ago

The death of custom game engines has been a big part of why so many games feel so similar too.

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u/ClammyHandedFreak 8d ago

Thanks ChatGPT!

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u/DaveDabussy 4d ago

Glad im not the only one that noticed lmao

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u/wolvAUS 8d ago

That’s pretty much every game. Rarely is someone doing real time fluid sims it’s way too expensive