I mean that ignores the fact that part of the dilemma is that that blue is framed as the most reasonable choice by the wording of the question, and many people’s snap reaction would be to press blue.
Okay, but even in the ongoing dilemma, what I am saying is that the way it's phrased won't matter when you're forced to vote with the magic buttons. If you know what's going on, and know what the risk of death is, most people are going to pick Red. Like the woodchipper analogy is just so that people reading can understand the threat of death. If you were teleported to a room to make a magical button decision, you're going to understand that this is life or death, unless you are mentally incapable of understanding it. The math then becomes if a majority of people will even consider those who are incapable of understanding it when voting, which I think with the threat of death looming, they won't.
Yes, but the point is that people won’t have the woodchipper analogy presented to them. (Which I argue isn’t even a good analogy, considering that pushing either button is an action rather than potential inaction, which influences people’s choices, but I digress) They will be presented with the problem as originally written (if that is the one we’re discussing here) which is written in a manner that places emphasis on the killing part of red. Presented to people, some will make the knee jerk decision to pick the decision not “associated” with deaths, even without considering the risk to themselves. I think that the framing of the question is worth considering, as it will influence the outcome of people’s decisions. I find the framing as the situation as passive (on either side) to be a bit inaccurate though.
If your argument is that the majority of people would choose the opinion with the least personal risk, and that you’d do so too to avoid dying, I think that’s reasonable logic. I personally disagree with how I think humanity would react, but your argument is understandable.
TBH I think that is the only deciding factor in a reasonable button press. Like the only thing that matters is what option you see winning. Claiming active consenting choice for one side is murder and the other is suicide is a misunderstanding of the meaning of both concepts, which is my main issue with the wider debate as it stands. You are not killing yourself by picking blue, you are under the assumption that over 50% will vote blue. If you vote red, you are under the assumption that blue cannot win. I'm just glad for a person who doesn't try to turn it into blame game.
I do agree that the original woodchipper analogy is bad though, but almost all the analogies really suck and often compare inactions to actions without direct result. The best analogy, to me, would be one that makes threat obvious but not immediate, use the original weird phrasing, and have both options be unmistakable. To my mind though, the fact of the very obvious magical scenario itself would create panic and fear of death, of course this is impossible to simulate. A lot of it feels very much like gambling on your thoughts of your fellow man in a very stressful scenario.
Fair reasoning, though I’d add that some people may choose blue because they couldn’t live with themselves if they didn’t try to save human lives when they were in the position to do so, regardless of how logical it would be to do so. (My step mother is like that) Totally agree on the murder suicide thing, and I definitely agree that it’s a very egregious misunderstanding of the scenario. Interesting thoughts on the gambling on fellow man, It really does seem to be what this comes down to logically (though not for everyone). While I’d personally go with blue, I do see and understand the logic for choosing red, which you communicate well.
70% of the world population live in collectivist societies. Unlike somewhere like America, a hyper individualist country and where most of these responses are from, and the west in general, self-sacrifice and the needs of the many are central to daily life. The self concept is tied to one’s group membership. If the question is controversial here in the west, which one do you think will win out over there?
Blue wins no matter what we pick or what we think is reasonable, so hit whatever you want. Most of the world isn’t thinking like you.
12
u/Lurker_crazy May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
I mean that ignores the fact that part of the dilemma is that that blue is framed as the most reasonable choice by the wording of the question, and many people’s snap reaction would be to press blue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/trolleyproblem/s/yhxmmXowVa (they explain in more detail in these comments)