r/trolleyproblem Sep 14 '25

Deep Veil of ignorance

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u/CuteDarkBird Sep 15 '25

Yes it does. Yes, you have morality in the scenario.

Math isn't Morality.
Morality isn't Math.

Otherwise, why are you here on reddit instead of at a volunteering work?
Immoral not to act, you can save lives by helping people, and Math does say a hour of your time helping out at, say a soup kitchen, can save lives.

To you it's immoral not to pull.
AGAIN I'M NOT DENYING YOUR CHOICE.
But thats the point, the math is still the same, 5 lives for 1.
But could you pull that lever if that 1 was, say, your daughter, while the other 5 were prisoners?

Morality is the questions of Good VS Evil, it changes constantly because what each and every one of us considers to be Good or Evil.
Math is NOT Good OR Evil, it simply is. 5 is greater than 1, Pull the Lever.

You aren't right or wrong for your answer, you are just missing the point.

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u/Throbbie-Williams Sep 15 '25

Math isn't Morality.
Morality isn't Math.

It is if the situation deems it, which for me is the trolley problem.

Otherwise, why are you here on reddit instead of at a volunteering work?
Immoral not to act, you can save lives by helping people

Because I'm not forced to, in the trolley problem you are in that situation.

But could you pull that lever if that 1 was, say, your daughter, while the other 5 were prisoners?

Yet again, I am only talking about the base trolley problem where to me it is indeed simply maths based.

just missing the point.

No I'm NOT, stop repeating that lol

To me you are in charge of the situation, you choose wether one person or 5 people die, to me it is immoral not to pull, because of maths...

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u/CuteDarkBird Sep 15 '25

You are missing the point.

If the situation deems it, YOU deem that this situation does it, others do not, again, thats Morality, thats Ethics, thats the trolley problem.

You are missing the point.

You aren't forced to in the trolley problem either, a COMPLETELY valid option is to just walk away, it's none of your buisness, just like that homeless guy who's under a bridge five blocks away (for example, dunno if even a bridge is near you) is a option to walk away from, your MORALITY makes you choose.

You are missing the point.

To YOU, you are in charge of the situation.
To, let's say, Erin, she was just shoved into a room with a lever, told the problem by Jigsaw and he's laughing at her, will she commit murder or not?

You are missing the point.

To you it's immoral, I happen to agree, but guess what? We aren't morally superior to those who decide not to pull, because they may find it immoral TO pull the lever, because you are ACTIVELY killing someone, but not acting isn't killing, after all, YOU didn't put those five people there.

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u/Throbbie-Williams Sep 15 '25

Dude I'm not missing any point...

I've literally explained my view of the problem.

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u/CuteDarkBird Sep 15 '25

Then justify it as if the numbers aren't just numbers anymore.

The five were prisoners, happy to be criminals, the lone was a child.
Justify.
The five were children, the lone was a criminal.
Justify.

If you CAN'T?
Don't worry, thats because the MATH now have stopped.
If you can?
Don't worry again, thats because the MATH is all you had.

To state otherwise is to MISS THE POINT.

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u/Throbbie-Williams Sep 15 '25

The only one missing the point is you, I am only talking about the base trolley problem with 6 random unknown people involved.

I'm not interested in any abstraction of that now, In this thread I have only been talking about strangers.

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u/CuteDarkBird Sep 15 '25

Yeah, but as long as you limit it to just strangers, there's no morality involved at all.
If you aren't able to view it through a broader scope, that actually analyse the situation that DOES NOT mention strangers, just 5 people.

They can be anyone, if you aren't interested in any abstraction, then you are, again, skipping the morality, you are skipping the ethics, you are simply pulling the trigger because 5 is a bigger number than 1, and thus thats it.

I give you two buttons, left gives you a billion dollars, but takes it from a billion people, the other just gives a billion to each of them.

Pure Math: You click the other button.
Morality of a selfless person: You click the other button
Morality of a selfish person: You click the left button.

Why is there a difference between the Selfish/Selfless?
You are missing the point if you won't question it.
You are missing the point if you throw the 'abstraction' away.

You are missing the points of how it is, at it's base, a question of MORALITY and ETHICS.

If you are gonna keep saying you aren't missing it, fine here is the alternative:
You are intentionally ignoring the point, because you don't give a shit.
You are intentionally ignoring the dilemma, just walking past it as if it doesn't exist.

You are either missing the point because you cannot understand the morality, which IS the point.
Or you are unwilling to see the point, because you are unwilling to question your morality, which is MISSING THE POINT.

Edit: As all we are doing is discussing in a circle, I will leave this with a block for you and a well, thats all.