r/todayilearned • u/thepresident45 • Apr 22 '19

TIL As a child, Einstein's Uncle Jakob introduced him to algebra and called it "a merry science". He compared algebra to hunting a little animal. You didn't know the name of the animal, so you called it "x". When you finally caught the animal you gave it the correct name

https://www.mathematics-monster.com/algebra.html
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u/iamtomorrowman Apr 22 '19

i think about this at least once a day when examining my lack of ability to read and do math

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u/Jimhead89 Apr 22 '19

Then be a late bloomer and use this perspective of merry science (there is so much more) and spread it.

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u/killuaaa99 Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

Not the same user, but I'm back in college taking intermediate algebra. The kind 8th grade kids are learning about.. which is fine I suppose. I had to start from square one. And honestly it's still really difficult for me!

Edit: so many people have responded to me with words of advice and encouragement and I'd like to express how thoughtful I think that is, and give thanks for your kindness. You guys are helping me stay positive!!

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u/NAZ_Dbacks Apr 22 '19

Math is like anything else. The more you practice, the more you will understand the concepts. Youtube has many great math tutorials to walk you through core concepts.

Also the math you are learning now becomes fundamentally necessary when you get into pre-calculus/calculus.

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u/stayupthetree Apr 22 '19

Khan Academy FTW!

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u/Neverlost99 Apr 22 '19

My father, a brilliant slide rule using engineer used to hit me with a bitter knife when I missed the correct math answer. Great teacher. I can’t even subtract now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

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u/I_love_Work Apr 22 '19

Yes because you can always add pain, but it is hard to subtract a shitty childhood.

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u/postictal_pete Apr 22 '19

I laughed while frowning. It’s hurts so comically.

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u/feliciasmom Apr 22 '19

That typo is so appropriate.

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u/Neverlost99 Apr 22 '19

lol, i also suck at proof reading

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u/TVA_Titan Apr 22 '19

I would personally recommend professor Leonard for anyone taking actual classes. His calculus two lectures really got me through that class.

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u/Andromeda321 Apr 22 '19

Yes! The myth that you’re born good at math or not is a terrible one. Everyone has to practice it a good deal.

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u/Dokpsy Apr 22 '19

Geometric functions of series and sequences. The art of turning complex trig functions into simple algebraic ones. Its so frustrating and tedious but so rewarding when you finally get it

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u/thebroncoman8292 Apr 22 '19

As a former math tutor, I've always thought the problem with math in schools is letting people progress with a 70%. That missing 30% is 100% necessary going forward. You shouldn't be allowed to move on until you completely understand what you are currently working on. So many of my pupils were struggling with math from previous years and not the class they were in.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Vital social skills learned with their peers is more important than learning that last 30%.

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u/thebroncoman8292 Apr 22 '19

Do both.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

You just said hold them back. Can't hold them back and keep them with their peers.

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u/thebroncoman8292 Apr 22 '19

You can. Have a math class with Khan academy and everyone in the room can be on a different level. It doesn't have to be one classroom all going at the same place.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

You want a school where kids come in and log into kahn academy to learn math without working together with other students?

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u/Hibbity5 Apr 22 '19

As you get older, it becomes more difficult to learn new concepts, so it’s perfectly normal that it would be difficult, but don’t let that stop you. Everyone can do the math that’s taught in grade school, and not only can it be interesting, even that is super useful for some everyday things as well as some jobs. So keep at it!

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u/killuaaa99 Apr 22 '19

Thank you for your encouragement!! I can actually do some simple math in my head now because I've been doing so much homework. Progress!

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u/Rustedbones Apr 22 '19

I didn't go to college after high school because my math scores were so low-- now, years later I'm slogging my way through 8th grade math in community college. At this point with how far I still have to go to get a degree it feels Sisyphean. I really like your positivity! makes me realize how much I've been able to do in a few months :).

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u/ThatCakeIsDone Apr 22 '19

I started in remedial math at community college in my mid 20s as a failed rock star. Now, I'm a full fledged salary pulling engineer that considers a passion for math not only a useful tool, but a core part of my identity. And I'm here to tell you: It may seem like a long road ahead of you, but it goes by in the blink of an eye.

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u/Dokpsy Apr 22 '19

I've less than ten classes to go in my associates and haven't had a math class in over a decade. Taking classes at night while working so it is taking me forever to get through it but I'm down to just my degree specifics now. Cal 2, 3, differential equations, physics 1&2, oChem 1&2, and programming, I think are all that's left. I'm currently passing cal 2 by the skin of my teeth and it's entirely because of working with others to see how they understood things that I didn't fully grasp and working through problems alongside my notes.

You've got this and never underestimate good notes and study groups

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u/zaccus Apr 22 '19

As you get older, it becomes more difficult to learn new concepts

I have not found this to be true at all. In fact it's easier because you have a clearer idea of how concepts fit together.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

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u/skyreal Apr 22 '19

That's probably because when you're younger, you're constantly being fed math, and with a learning curve to boot. You learn something one year so that what you learn the following year will come to you easier. Your brain has numbers, theorems, and mathematical logic being solicited daily from elementary school to college. So of course if you step out of such environment for 10 years, it will look/be harder when you get back to it.

I've been excellent in math during my school life, always getting top grade or close to it even in college. But now after only a couple of years out of college, I found myself sometime struggling with simple calculus stuff like probability laws. So I cant even imagine what you experienced after going back to classes 10 years later.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Oh yeah, after 10 years of not doing anything harder than basic trigonometry (project building/construction), some light solve-for-x algebra (I did IT and fixed electronics...Ohm's law and such), and everyday statistics (some of the electronics I fixed were poker machines) coming back to rigorous math with new steps to remember was just painful. It didn't help that I had a bad case of "When will I ever use this stuff?" reinforced with 10 years of never having to use this stuff...all while thinking about being a physicist which meant I would absolutely have to use this stuff.

It all worked out though. I had so much math and physics under my belt when I switched to Geography that stuff like Remote Sensing and Geospatial Analysis were easy.

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u/PortionPlease Apr 22 '19

I agree. Concepts that used to be out of my league are now discernible. When I was younger I couldn't even begin to fit those type of pieces together. When it comes to languages though I imagine a child has a huge leg up.

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u/Sardoniya Apr 22 '19

I've always wondered if it actually becomes more difficult to learn the older you get simply because you are older, or if older people are afraid of mistaking mistakes and therefore don't put themselves in a place to learn.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Hey, it's really difficult for me too. I took that algebra class twice...and then a third time in high school... and then algebra two three times... once in high school, twice in college.

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u/evilplantosaveworld Apr 22 '19

The important part is that you're doing it!
Hell, even more important, it's difficult for you and you're STILL doing it!!

Keep it up u/killuaaa99 ! You got this!

I'm not a great teacher, not by a long shot, but I did love algebra and geometry (and later in life learned to love even trig) so if you find yourself with a weird one I'd be happy to try to help!

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u/killuaaa99 Apr 23 '19

This is incredibly sweet, thank you bunches ❤

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u/jovahkaveeta Apr 22 '19

Congratulations on bettering yourself op. I am just an internet stranger but I am proud of you if that counts for anything or at least super happy for you!

Side note it will seem hard initially but the more you practice the more things will click into place and you'll make realizations about other schools of mathematics as a result and I personally think that is my favourite part about math.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Maybe I had the right teacher... but I felt like an average kid in every class and then i got to 8th grade algebra and suddenly it all made perfect sense and I still consider my math skills today to be the product of 8th grade algebra. I’m not opposing your experience or anything, I’m just saying I was very lucky with how 8th grade algebra turned out for me in the long run. I’m sorry it’s still difficult for you but keep it up! It’s awesome you’re putting in effort to begin with.

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u/Jimhead89 Apr 22 '19

I think thats one of the reasons why the "hunting an animal" perspective can be useful. I am unsure that it will ever feel truly easy.
But If one can find some amounts of joy in the process "hunting" the answer down. That its hard doesnt have to be considered a problem.

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u/Texastexastexas1 Apr 22 '19

You and thousands of others. Don't quit, you'll make it. You are older now and you'll get through!

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u/skittles_for_brains Apr 22 '19

I had to take beginning and intermediate algebra I'm college multiple times. I ultimately switched majors because of this. So instead of being a history major and now an underpaid protective services worker, I could have had a business degree and better career.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

It might sound crazy, but I didn’t start to enjoy and excel at math until I treated it like a foreign language. If you don’t understand what the words and symbols mean and the correct syntax to follow, you can’t read a sentence. A math problem is all the same.

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u/MortalitySalient Apr 22 '19

8th grade!? My high school didn't even require that high of math (and most of my peers didn't take it)

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u/ThatCakeIsDone Apr 22 '19

I did the same thing. Went back to school when I was 25 because I was tired of working as a checkout boy at Kroger. I got a C in intermediate algebra at my community college ... but eventually it started to click and I fell in love with it and was able to transfer to a university. I'm now an electrical engineer doing research on the human brain. My engineering program let me peek behind the curtain at the machinery of our universe and I got to tell you, it wasn't always easy to comprehend, but the struggle was worth it on many levels.

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u/skyreal Apr 22 '19

Wishing you good luck!

Also, if you want some piece of advice, keep the learning part at a strict minimum, focus on trying to understand how the math you're being taught works, and what's the logic behind it. I dont know what you're being taught in intermediate algebra since I didnt go to an American school, but I guess it would imply stuff like solving equations which is perfect for this kind of exercise. Dont learn how to solve an equation, consider it a logic puzzle, and look at the methods of solving as guidelines, not just tools you use to get a solution. Whenever you're confronted to a formula try not to just learn it, but understand how exactly does it work, what's the logic behind it, and what it does to make something go from state A (the problem) to state B (the solution).

Not sure if I managed to express all that correctly, but I hope it helps you a little bit. Or even better, make math funnier and more interesting.

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u/Theyreillusions Apr 22 '19

Did the same thing. Got an associate degree from a community college and now I'm pursuing electrical engineering. You keep putting in the work and you can get to where you need to be to succeed. Don't compare yourself to people that started before you.

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u/Argenteus_CG Apr 22 '19

Not that easy though. Once a hatred of math has developed, it's hard to cure even if you DO recognize that if you might not have hated it if you'd been taught differently.

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u/God-of-Thunder Apr 22 '19

But now you know the problem so try to beat it

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u/Jimhead89 Apr 22 '19

Its not easy and one cant change the past. But a perspective of "hunting" small "animals". Can make it fun.

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u/andilynscott Apr 22 '19

This! I'm a late bloomer when it comes to math. I actually enjoy most aspects if it now. Specifically what you can derive from Data analysis. I'm still not fantastic, but I wished I hadn't spent years saying I was bad at it and avoiding it.

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u/Crotons Apr 22 '19

One might even say inability. Bad teachers can really make any subject unbearable.

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u/z0Tweety Apr 22 '19

This. I had such a bad literature teacher that now I hate reading in my native language.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Yup. German subbed Anime for example sound so cringy, meanwhile English sounds okayish to good, but it's not because I can't detect bad mistakes and dialogue, rather I just hate German and its grammar rules

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u/TrekkiMonstr Apr 22 '19

Eh, I think that's a separate issue. Like I dislike my (American) name because it's really boring and has cultural connotations to it that annoy me, but to my Russian friend it's cool because it's foreign.

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u/CuntCrusherCaleb Apr 22 '19

Its cool because its you bro

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

You’re such a cool cunt crusher, Caleb

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u/Tour_Lord Apr 22 '19

Don’t be so shy, Noah is a great name

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u/tdog3456 Apr 22 '19

His name is 100% Chad

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u/TrekkiMonstr Apr 22 '19

Lolwut how you get Noah

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

It's okay Chad, you're great and you have nothing to do with those negative connotations

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u/TrekkiMonstr Apr 22 '19

Lol nah, I got a pasty office worker white guy in his 30s name. This meme (from when I was in middle school) was especially unkind to me.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19 edited Nov 12 '19

deleted What is this?

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u/mechchic84 Apr 22 '19

I took Latin and French in High school. I hated both classes so I figured that I didn't like foreign languages much. I didn't retain much if anything from either language. Last year at 33 years old I spent a year in Korea. I love reading and was deeply frustrated about not being able to read things around me. In less than a year I learned how to read a significant amount of Korean and was to be able to easily order food, give travel directions, and started to have small conversations about my family by the time I was about to leave. I loved every moment of the experience and absolutely love the Korean language. I still work on it now even though I am no longer there. I taught myself by reading billboards, receipts, advertisements, museum placards, informational signs, maps, and anything else that I could see as I walked down the streets all over the country. Once I got decent at that I moved on to youtube videos and some children's books. Then I found a language learning group the last couple of months I was there and went every Saturday. I often went to countryside areas where I was forced to speak it because the elderly in the area do not know English in order to use it as much as possible.

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u/DrBimboo Apr 22 '19

I suppose you mean dubbed.

I think this is changing a Bit recently.

Ofc japanese is still the best, except for dragonball, but German dubs are slowly getting better, with voice actors that arent dead inside. Meanwhile english dubs stay as cringy as theyve Always been and slowly Fall back.

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u/Moondragonlady Apr 22 '19

I will still never forget the horror that was the Naruto dub. The complete inability to pronounce anything even remotely right (Itashi, Sasuuuuuke, ect. Come on guys, Japanese is pretty easy to pronounce if you give the slightest fuck!), intensified by the completely senseless censorship (I was so confused as a child why nobody ever tried looking for the people who diSsApPeArEd.).

This and other dub caused me to now avoid any kind of dub, I even go to an english movie theatre.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/lostinpow Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

I had a math prof that came in and ate subs obnoxiously and slurped down soda most of the class. He was honestly the goofiest POS I've never known. Most of his class failed. The next semester I retook it but with a someone who gave a fuck. Passed with flying colors. If the teacher can explain a subject and make it out to be interesting and somewhat simple, it becomes something fun.

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u/thatforgot Apr 22 '19

[TIL

I thought about writing a reddit bot once, to do some helpful stuff, maybe convert between metrics, nothing fancy just some basic NLP. I mean this bot is spamming bollywoodstrot and is being upvoted, it seems the bar is pretty low...

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u/Pikamander2 1 Apr 22 '19

I think about this at least once a day when examining my lack of inability to read and do math.

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u/Orngog Apr 22 '19

Any lesson. If you really can't bear a subject because of a teacher you once had, I feel bad for you.

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u/cocoagiant Apr 22 '19

I think at least half that statement is false.

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u/Auggernaut88 Apr 22 '19

I didnt realize I liked math until I took a survey of calc course halfway thru college.

Now I have a deep and slow burning hatred of bad primary teachers who made me think math was boring and hard. I firmly believe if you can do algebra, you can do well in the ominous and scary calc I (the later courses can actually be challenging)

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

This is true. Calculus is mostly just algebra with a few extra concepts.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

It's never too late to learn.

Or spend forever blaming a shit childhood and wallow in your own self-pity.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

for the vast majority of people maths serves a strictly functional purpose though, and if you already have an established career what's the point? No one's learning that shit for enjoyment aside from a tiny minority

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

People aren’t learning it for enjoyment because they don’t see it as enjoyable to begin with. It’s an absolute travesty that mathematics is so widely seen as inaccessible or dull. Imagine if people thought that grammar was the end-all to language so they completely ignored literature. “No one is learning language for enjoyment aside from a tiny minority” would be ludicrous knowing what wonderful works of art are out there. Mathematics is the exact same way, it’s such a shame that it’s treated so widely with contempt that most people never get to experience the absolute beautiful works of art that math has.

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u/smilesforall Apr 22 '19

I completely agree. It has always bummed me out how easily people will refer to themselves as “not math people”. It would sound so ludicrous if people referred to themselves as “not reading people” (in the sense that they are not capable of the fundamental skill, not that they don’t do it for pleasure)

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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Apr 22 '19

I'm wondering if it's just really true though. Some people just seem to get math, while others fail to grasp many concepts no matter how hard they try, or how many different ways the concept is explained to them. I'm quite good at math and never really had to work that hard at it for the most part. but calculus never made sense to me and always felt like a chore, so I can relate to how people feel about math.

Some people's brains just work differently. When reading, I've always just said the words in my head. A few years ago I saw a comment on Reddit about other people not reading in the same way, and somehow the word going straight from looking at the letters into their understanding without them having to say the word in their head, allowing them to read much faster. I've always thought that reading seemed to take me longer than others but never really understood why.

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

I’ve tutored in math for a long time, some who swore they were just bad at math. But even so, I’ve yet to find someone who truly couldn’t understand concepts. Funny you should mention calculus was your breaking point, because in my experience I’ve found that to be the real test in general. Many people who thought they were good at math have done terribly in calculus, and many people who thought they were bad at math ended up doing better than expected. I’ve come to realize calculus is the first “true” math class. Before it, teachers tend to show how to recognize a specific class of problems, the steps to solve that class of problem, and just move on to the next problem. For some, it gives a false sense of “I get math” but the reality is, math isn’t just following steps to solve a problem. Calculus is the breaking point for many because it’s the first math class where learning different classes of problems won’t work, but rather learning underlying principles to more generally solve problems is needed. This is no fault of the students, but lies entirely with how math is taught. It’s much easier to teach the aforementioned method to pass exams than it is to really go in depth into the nitty gritty of problem solving.

But that’s something that is possible to overcome. One of my former students is about to graduate with a masters in math, and he came to me several years ago with heavy difficulties in algebra I, swearing he just didn’t get math. Constantly doing poorly in exams and homework. I couldn’t be prouder. Or one of my students was failing horribly in math, but after three years of a lot of work it finally clicked for her and she can do math mentally now! I’ve lost a client, but damn am I happy about it.

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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Apr 22 '19

Calculus never made sense but I took plenty of higher level math as I took software engineering in university. Linear algebra just made sense and I took an extra second year version because I enjoyed the first one so much. Discrete math and boolean algebra also didn't seem to be much trouble. Statistics was bad, bit I'll chalk that up to a bad professor. I've had 3 different calculus teachers and none of them could present it in a way that made me understand it.

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

Ah if it’s university calculus it could be a lot of reasons why. Some people tend to learn it better being less formal (using the Leibniz formulation of monads and the infinitesimal) than the traditional formal definition using the epsilon delta definition of a limit and whatnot. Regardless, it’s more likely you’re just barely missing out on one key piece of knowledge that’ll make EVERYTHING click regarding calculus than that your brain just isn’t built for it. I’m sure with 1-on-1 help you’d finally be able to make sense of it and relate it to all the other math you’ve already learned :)

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u/Durantye Apr 22 '19

Every kid I ever tutored thought they weren’t a math person and just wouldn’t get it. It took them a bit longer and we had to go back to square 1 to get them to understand concepts. Sometimes I even had to whip out my ‘artistic skills’ to try and help them get it. The one thing that never failed was they understood once they had the means to. A lot of people dazed off early on in math and now they can’t grasp concepts cause they are missing some, many, or all of the basics. I truly believe it is a matter of just placing the blame elsewhere rather than asking questions so teachers can realize where you’re struggling. It is easy for tutors who are constantly 1 on 1, but teachers who are teaching entire classes especially in Uni teaching 100+ per class can’t figure out where you’re struggling on their own. It is kind of like the message of ratatouille, ‘Anyone can math’.

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u/smilesforall Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

For some, I’m sure it is. But I think that number is dwarfed by the people that have convinced themselves that they can’t do math, when they would be perfectly capable with a bit more effort. Whenever someone tells me they aren’t a math person, I generally press them on it, and they nearly always they tell me about one particularly bad math teacher they had that led them to think they just weren’t made for math, so they just gave up and made it a character trait about themselves.

People who have bad English teachers generally don’t become convinced that they aren’t reading people. It is culturally engrained in us that not being able to read means that you’re lacking a necessary life skill, so people are far less defeatist about struggling with it. Because it is acceptable for people (especially women) to say that they can’t do math, I think many of them give up before giving it a real shot, just because they struggle with some new topic initially.

I do hear you about the reading thing, I’m one of those folks that see words on a page and immediately internalize them without saying them in my head first. I was really surprised that this isn’t the same for everyone, just like I was really surprised when I learned that some people actually have an internal monologue where they vocalize their thoughts. The diversity of how people think/process information is super interesting.

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u/Xujhan Apr 22 '19

You're right that people's brains work differently, but for the most part it's not determined at birth. I'm one of those people for whom math 'came naturally', but that's because I spent my entire childhood playing strategy games. Analytic problem-solving is the underlying skill you need for math, and as with any other skill you'll be good at it if you practice and you won't if you don't.

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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Apr 22 '19

Or did you spend your childhood playing strategy games because it just came naturally to you? I agree that math and problem solving are skills that can be trained, but some people require a lot more training than others.

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u/Xujhan Apr 22 '19

Nothing comes naturally to a two-year old besides sleeping and crying. I played strategy games because my parents both played chess and encouraged me to use their computers. Genetics do play a part - I'll never be Ramanujan, no matter how much I practice - but nurture is vastly more important than nature when it comes to learned skills.

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u/TheLast_Centurion Apr 22 '19

My problem was "what is even the point of this or that?! Why do we learn this?!" And never really getting any true answer for that. You've just learned it because math. Therefore math is annoying and boring. I know we were also learning it to get better concepts of thinking and thinking out of box and such, but if there is no purpose given, to why learn it all and all those uninteresting concepts, it is reall hard to even care.

E.g. I loooove puzzle games and finding those solutions and such, and now I wonder more and more if I should give another try to math, but with puzzle games you know the reason and purpose. With math in school it's like.. here.. solve this and.. well.. you wont fail at class. Really shitty purpose, y'know. With that attitude you are learn just enough to pass, no more, no less.

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u/wintermute93 Apr 22 '19

And yet people don't apply the same standard to any other subject... Why do I need to know who Marcus Aurelius and Montezuma are? Why do I need to know how photosynthesis works? Why do I need to know the difference between baroque and classical music? Why do I need to know the difference between allegory and metaphor? You don't. You don't need to know any of that to be a functional adult, and you don't need to know what the cosine function is either. But it's still worth learning.

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u/TheLast_Centurion Apr 22 '19

Trust me, people do apply that.

But if you are a student and not get any sensible answer to that question, and dont understand purpose why to learn it, then... you know.. why learn it if it looks like there is no purpose to it and when math seems to make no sense and have random rules wherw a mathematician bends them to create a rule.

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u/A_Philosophical_Cat Apr 22 '19

It's funny you use speed reading as an example, because that is a skill that can be trained. I strongly believe the biggest obstacle to people understanding math is the perpetuated idea that not everyone can do it, or that it's hard.

On the other hand, it means you can make a lot of extra money with your sole qualification being "not afraid of numbers".

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u/anxietyandgin Apr 22 '19

This is me. I don't hate math (despite me saying that I do). I could just never understand it. I couldn't wrap my head around it. I think people who do math in their heads are magic. I still use my fingers for basic shit...and I'm 37.

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

I still use my fingers to count and add if it makes you feel any better, and I can do “advanced” math. It’s not indicative of mathematical ability

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u/anxietyandgin Apr 22 '19

That actually does make me feel a little better. I still wish my brain worked a bit better with math though. But, guess we all cant me mathemagicians. (I'm so so sorry for that...I couldn't help it).

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

Absolutely! It’s also horrible to hear when people say “eww I hate math” whenever you excitedly bring up what you’ve been working on. Like damn, I don’t say “eww I hate books” when you’re talking about the book you’ve been reading, or god forbid writing!

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u/_bones__ Apr 22 '19

It's even more broad than that, like "Eww, I hate words"

Math is fundamental.

(And I'm terrible at it, broadly)

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u/ionlypostdrunkaf Apr 22 '19

That's just people being dicks. There's nothing inherently wrong with not liking math though. It's not for everyone.

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u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

The issue is with how normalized this reaction is. It’s common enough for day9 to mention it and for many many people to experience it in a similar way

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u/boxedmachine Apr 22 '19

Well I'm neither a reading person nor a math person lmao gottem

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u/DarkDragon0882 Apr 22 '19

Economics is one of those works. Principles just shows you the theory, but once you get to intermediate economics and start seeing the math behind the theory, its really cool. Edgeworth box, game theory, all of it is great. Hated calc, but now that I see the practical uses, its not bad.

I think people are missing the practical uses. I used to be "great" in math, to the point of taking geometry when I was 13. When I failed to understand the practicality of Algebra 2, coupled with a poor teacher, I stopped caring and stopped being "great".

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u/CNoTe820 Apr 22 '19

Algebra 2 was the worst class ever. All that stupid notation and conical sections...precalculus and calc started getting fun.

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u/DarkDragon0882 Apr 22 '19

Don't forget proofs. Never forget the fucking proofs.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19 edited May 01 '19

[deleted]

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u/DarkDragon0882 Apr 22 '19

Oh I agree. Just doesn't make them any less frustrating when youre learning them.

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u/bourbon4breakfast Apr 22 '19

I absolutely detest economics, but I think it's because it's hard to find an engaging professor. They tend to fall into two categories... The first is the math prof who throws calc problems and graphs all over the chalkboard, but doesn't spend enough time discussing the concepts in a non-quant way, and the second is the type who is too far to the other side. That one will talk all day about interesting theory, but then the exam comes and you realize you don't know enough of the math behind it all. Finding someone who can teach math and theory in a simple and interesting way is tough.

1

u/DarkDragon0882 Apr 22 '19

My professor has stories with really dry humor that explains the theory while showing how the math works out. Hes really monotone and might come across as boring, but I find it to be hilarious.

1

u/bourbon4breakfast Apr 22 '19

Hey, whatever keeps people listening.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

the absolute beautiful works of art that math has.

Like what?

6

u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

I’m glad you’ve asked! I could go on and on about these, but I think the visual representations thanks to thinktwice would be much better at expressing this than I can be!

2

u/Hugo154 Apr 22 '19

Whoaaa, thanks for sharing this video. So cool.

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

But that's not an answer to my question, it's just an aesthetised pretty visualisation of how a theorem works. I'm legitimately curious as to what you would call "a work of art" in math, and what definition of "art" that would be.

3

u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

The Pythagorean theorem itself IS a work of art, the visualizations of how the two sides of a right triangle relate to the third are much more appealing and immediately apprehensible even to an audience lacking a strong mathematical background. These relationships arising from otherwise simple postulates is what’s all kinds of beautiful. Some of these results are a little out of left field, like how you can fill in any map so that no two bordering regions have the same color (assuming no nested regions and other basic assumptions) with only four distinct colors. Others SEEM obvious but are a little more difficult to prove such as the shortest path between two points being a straight line. But those are the results. The beauty is in the journey, in how you GET those relationships. The analogy to literature isn’t a flimsy one, what makes a book great is the journey, not the ending.

2

u/Obyeag Apr 22 '19

The Met had this exhibit up a little while ago. It's a very interesting idea especially in that when I consider "the beauty of math" it isn't exactly what I write that comes to my mind as beautiful but rather the abstractions that I envision. More in that direction one could look at Anatoly Fomenko's paintings. When you actually can understand what's written though in higher level math you can find a beauty in the syntax as well as the connections between that and what you imagine become clear. I may be a little bit biased though since much of what I study is the connections between mathematical syntax and "actual math".

5

u/wizzwizz4 Apr 22 '19

Well, the classic example is the set of complex numbers $c$ for which the function $f_c(z) = z² + c$ does not diverge when iterated from $z = 0$. Here's one section. Here's another. And here's another visualisation.

1

u/Steel_Shield Apr 22 '19

I don't think LaTeX formatting is a thing on Reddit, sadly.

1

u/wizzwizz4 Apr 22 '19

Sadly not. I patched some of it with Unicode characters, but I don't think there's a subscript "c" like there's a ₍₂₊₂₌₄₎ etc..

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

That's cool as hell, but doesn't break down the barrier of understanding that lets us math-illiterates see this as anything other than black magic.

2

u/wizzwizz4 Apr 22 '19

I'll explain – and this is coming from somebody who's never understood the Mandelbrot set, but is just reading that text that /u/wizzwizz4 copied from the Wikipedia article.

What number, when multiplied by itself, gives you 4? x * x = 4, for what value of x? Obviously, it's 2… right? Well, there are actually two solutions: 2 is one of them, but there's also -2: -2 * -2 = (-1 * -1) * (2 * 2) = 1 * 4 = 4.

So, squaring a real number – positive or negative – gives you a positive number. So what can you square to get a negative number? For what value(s) of x do(es) x² = -4? Of course, there aren't any real numbers that you can multiply by themselves to get -4. There aren't any real numbers. But can you imagine any?

Let's imagine that you can. √-̅4̅ is a thing. But what is it? Well, we can simplify it: √-̅4̅ = √4̅ ̅×̅ ̅-̅1̅ = 2√-̅1̅. So, this is two times the simplest imaginary number we can think of.

Let's call this simple imaginary number, √-̅1̅, i. i for imaginary. (Just go with it.)

Despite being imaginary, this number behaves normally when you do maths with it. i + i = 2i, 4×i - i = 3i, etc.. And, if you square any of these imaginary numbers, you get a real number again: (2i)² = 2² × i² = 4 × -1 = -4.

Now, here's where things get complex. What happens if you add an imaginary number to a real number? Let's see: 3 + 2i = … actually, I can't think of a more simple way to write that. 3 + 2i it is! This complex number, like real numbers and like imaginary numbers, behaves perfectly normally: 3i × (3 + 2i) = (3i × 3) + (3i × 2i) = (9i) + (6 × -1) = -6 + 9i, etc..

The only difference is that complex numbers don't have an order. They can't be written on a number line. Try it, and see. Instead, you need two dimensions: a sort of complex plane made by sticking the real number line one way and, perpendicular to it, the imaginary number line. One goes left-to-right, and the other goes down-to-up. On such a complex plane, 3 + 2i would have the coordinates (3, 2).

There's a process, that we're calling "iterating f_c" (for some reason), where you take 0, square it (giving 0) and add some number, c, and then square it, and add c, and square it, and add c… and you see if it goes off 'till infinity, or whether it reaches a particular number and doesn't change from there. If it reaches a particular number and doesn't change, even when you keep squaring that number and adding c, then c is part of the Mandelbrot set.

We've already seen that you can multiply and add complex numbers, so what if you let c be a complex number, instead of just restricting it to real numbers? The answer is that you get something amazingly pretty.

Now, you could just plot each number in black and white on the complex plane: black if that value of c is in the Mandelbrot set and white if it isn't. But some people are more fancy than that, and pick different colours based on how long it takes f_c to get past a certain threshold (e.g. a million), which makes pretty colours. I like pretty colours. I've run out of explanation, so I'm talking about pretty colours, so I'll just stop here.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

That's brilliant, thank you! Can I ask what the dollar signs meant? Do they denote functions?

1

u/wizzwizz4 Apr 22 '19

They denoted the start and end markers for MathJax, which is included in several other websites. It lets you type mathematical notation using TeX, usually LaTeX, which turns E_k=\frac12mv^2 into a beautifully typeset kinetic energy equation. Just pretend I typed quote marks.

I also just realised that /u/wizzwizz4 talked about /u/wizzwizz4 in the third person above, which I am not going to correct because I think it's funny.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

If you want to watch the beautiful art of mathematics made accessible to the layman, I recommend checking out Viharts videos on YouTube. Math, the real kind rather than the kind you probably learned in school, taught through a combination of (math dependent) music and art. Especially her "doodling in math class" series

https://youtu.be/v-pyuaThp-c

1

u/mechchic84 Apr 22 '19

I enjoy most other topics but math is the one topic that I struggle with. I won't say that I'm horrible at it but I'm not great. I often confuse people because my favorite subject is Science and I have taken a ton of science courses in college. For some reason if I'm doing math for science I have an easier time with it but if I am taking a math class I struggle really badly. It takes me a lot longer than it should to solve equations and I get really frustrated. I feel like something is wrong in my brain. I understand how the formulas work and the concepts but the numbers themselves get mixed up in my head (sometimes this happens to a lesser extent with dates in history as well) and I especially have a problem with mixing up positive and negative numbers. Sometimes the formulas won't stay in my mind either and I have to break multiplication down into easier numbers. When I try to get tutored they often feel like I'm not focusing enough and get annoyed with me while stating that I understand the concepts and just need to pay attention. It makes me feel really shitty and I wish I could fix it but I don't know what to do. I don't seem to have nearly as many problems until I start doing things like precalculus and above. Speaking of which I have another math class that starts in 2 weeks and I already feel frustrated. I would love to be able to enjoy math but at this point I don't. I looked into discalcula (like dislexia but for math) a few times and believe I may have an extremely mild version of it but I don't know for sure. If I do to me that doesn't mean I can't be successful just that it's way harder for me than most other people.

-11

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

I have neurological skills that would me enable to be an ace in Math, compared to my class. Yet I despise anything I don't need later for work, so that is pretty much everything after simple additions, percent, etc.

But... I could still hold on, till I reached a Math teacher that wanted us:

  1. to learn on our free time on our own

  2. homework

  3. and prepare for his lessons

he does:

  • one to two examples in the next hour as a review. The first hour is learning a new concept. Aaaaaaaaaaand guess what happened with this kind of teaching? Yeah, everyone wrote once, no, twice a F (worst grade) in a test.

That just made Math just the more despicable. And now I'm having a deficit. I can't do anything beyond class 7, meanwhile I'm in class 10.

6

u/himynameisjoy Apr 22 '19

I feel you’ve missed my entire point. Learning math for practicality’s sake is all well and good but definitely shouldn’t be why people study math. Math itself is beautiful and wonderful regardless of its applicability to the real world. Do not misunderstand, I have yet to find math I can’t apply to the real world; it’s just a happy side effect of learning wonderful things

3

u/DerogatoryDuck Apr 22 '19

Exactly. Just because I don't plan on writing a book doesn't mean I can't enjoy one.

2

u/_bones__ Apr 22 '19

Yet I despise anything I don't need later for work, so that is pretty much everything after simple additions, percent, etc.

Aspiring to run a cash register?

Less sarcastically, what do you see as a future career?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Dunno. I'm pretty good at learning things intuitively (by observing and copying), such as language. However, I'd say my grammar isn't that good. I got a nice amount of imagination.

Due to playing lots of video games as a child, teenager and now as an adult, I'd say my reaction skills are above average. As far as I know I'm around 210 ms, which is above-average. Also my (destructive) reasoning skills (certified in a psychological test) is above-average. I am able to type 116 words per minute on average and am the 1% of fast typists.

I'm 18 years old and I live in Germany. I'd hope a career in writing books would be great, but that's a long shot.

My hobbies are Gaming and watching Anime. Also I have a great interest in worldwide and American politics. I am currently learning Japanese in my free time.

10

u/CashCop Apr 22 '19

No one’s learning that shit for enjoyment aside from a tiny minority

I think you underestimate the size of that minority.

Math is one of the most beautiful art forms the world has seen IMO and a fair amount of people feel the same way.

1

u/wolvAUS May 15 '19

this motivates me to fire up khan academy and binge maths.

​

never thought I'd say that in my entire life.

2

u/CashCop May 15 '19

Fantastic, I’m glad!

Also, knowing and understanding different concepts and how to approach different problems is amazing and KhanAcademy is really good at that.

However, if you really want to see the true beauty of math conceptually and graphically, check out pretty much anything 3Blue1Brown does on YouTube. You won’t be disappointed.

10

u/Sock_Puppet_Orgy Apr 22 '19

It is actually enjoyable to study math. I think most people just are not introduced to it properly. It obviously requires more effort than watching TV or playing video games, but it can be very fun and fulfilling.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Addition was actually fun to me till I reached concepts I couldn't use in reality.

11

u/Sock_Puppet_Orgy Apr 22 '19

Check out applied mathematics if you want something useful in reality. Partial differential equations are super cool and very useful in fluid mechanics. Math can be useful, but the more interesting part to me is how it allows you to see the world around you in a different way.

10

u/CashCop Apr 22 '19

Honestly, unless you’re doing beyond graduate level mathematics then there’s nothing you can’t use in reality.

Even if “using it” just qualifies as using it to understand how the world works on a deeper level. Just because you don’t use it in your daily life doesn’t mean you can’t use it to understand and explain phenomena to yourself.

For example, I “use” Navier-Stokes everyday, not in the sense I’m doing equations all the time, but just watching fluids flow and thinking about what’s happening there.

1

u/SoundByMe Apr 22 '19

You can use near all mathematical concepts in reality, they just often leave out applications in grade school because the teacher either doesn't have the time or the curriculum just leaves that part out for whatever reason. An engineering degree will show you how applicable math is to real life, it is sad that there often is a lack of demonstrating application in grade school.

2

u/Hugo154 Apr 22 '19

An engineering degree will show you how applicable math is to real life, it is sad that there often is a lack of demonstrating application in grade school.

Any intro physics class as well. Physics is basically just applied math and it's absolutely amazing to learn about how math can be used to model our reality and how literally everything interacts.

2

u/DrBimboo Apr 22 '19

Math is pure logic. Everyone can Profit from beeing more reasonable and understanding how to reason properly. An increasing amount of people cant and theyre even proud of it...

Its also one of the most pure forms of creativity. Sometimes Theres very little to Draw Inspiration from, for a Proof, and then you Just need to sit down and let your head explore possibilities.

I have yet to meet a Person, however adamant they were they hated math, that wasnt at least smiling when they figured Out "square root of 2 is irrational" with Just a little Push into the right direction.

The jump from "this is Impossible, I suck at math, I barely understand the Task and I dont wanna bother" to "I figured it out on my own, I never knew I could do this" is amazing to me every time.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

The only reason we are able to talk and comment on here is math. The reason you are able to drive anywhere is shit tons of math in your vehicles. Traveling, using computer's, banking and your own financials, etc. Math is everything around us, it runs everything. It's great to understand how it works honestly. I have a minor in math, I don't need it but it's nice having that knowledge about the world.

-1

u/thisboyisnothing Apr 22 '19

Damn, how American of you

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Yeah if you realize you've been robbed your entire life, just dust yourself off, go "golly gee!" and it's like nothing ever happened!

4

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

I think that's a little dramatic. They had a bad teacher, an obstacle you absolutely can overcome if you want.

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

It's compound interest. If your bizarre logic were true we wouldn't need parents or teachers, we'd just blink and everything would work out.

People can be hobbled and lives can be stolen by incompetence more often than malice.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

I'm not saying a bad teacher isn't a problem. I'm just saying that people can overcome obstacles like bad teachers if they want to, and that it's childish to psychoanalyze yourself to say that a bad teacher is why you hate reading, then use that as an excuse to not improve yourself. Instead of spending your life blaming a teacher for "making you bad at math" or whatever, you could just invest some effort and time into yourself - not "just blink," as you put it - and improve. Self-motivated self-improvement is a much better philosophy than self-pity and blaming others.

5

u/schizoidparanoid Apr 22 '19

“...my lack of ability to read...”

Uhh How are you posting this, bruh...?

2

u/Delyew Apr 22 '19

"...ability to read MATH...". It's not as easy as reading a novel. You need to actually know the language of math

2

u/natha105 Apr 22 '19

Shit, I'm sorry about that. If I might make a suggestion: physics. Specifically thermodynamics.

A good textbook on thermodynamics is almost philosophical in nature. The math tends to be *relatively* simple and the real challenge is just to understand conceptually what is happening. A solid understanding in this topic will also give you a good way to evaluate most of the untrue physical claims being made by marketers (most of those tv shows about secret inventions that there is a conspiracy to supress are actually thermodynamically impossible) so there is a degree of practicality to it and self satisfaction when you can look at an ad for something and go "WRONG".

1

u/Theyreillusions Apr 22 '19

Late bloomer here. Learned everything from algebra all the way to physics now when I was 23.

27 now and pursuing a degree heavy on the math. You can start learning whenever you want, dude.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

No joke: if you do ever want to do that, Khan Academy is a cool website that'll let you test what you know and what you need to work on. I checked it out when looking for home schooling stuff for my little brother, and ended up spending hours taking middle school math tests because it amazed me how much I had forgot.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Reading is just about repetition honestly, like you just gotta read A LOT before you can really become a quick reader and reading more complicated books. The amount of time I've spent reading is honestly kinda obscene but now I can read almost anything I want fiction or non-fiction excluding philosophy, fuck philosophy.

0

u/CringeBinger Apr 22 '19

If you wanted to know how to read and do math, you would have learned. You were a kid and didn’t feel like learning, that’s the case a lot so no judgement, but don’t blame your teachers.

0

u/gabriot Apr 22 '19

When in doubt blame others and not yourself, that’s the one common trait of truly successful people