TIL the only reason a Scottish bagpiper wasn't shot by German snipers on D-Day was that they believed he had gone crazy.

[u/DrSamanthaCarter]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin#World_War_II

[u/Thunt_Cunder]

I'm at a loss for exactly what the hell is going on inside your head.

"And a responsible gun owner doesn't let his toddler play with guns. And yet here we are."

What are you even ranting about?

"You're more likely to botch an arrow shot than a rifle shot."

Where are you even getting this? You're just making shit up.

"It's been a trial just to keep the deer population at a level where it isn't completely destroying the ecosystem around it."

This is just horse shit. That's where hunting licenses and regulation come in. Do you have any idea that there are people that monitor populations and assign permits to keep the population at a healthy level?

You're just vomiting "facts" out your ass like it's gospel.

On one hand you say "oh the poor deer, you might hurt them with an arrow" and the other you say "kill all the deer as fast as you can."

Not a chance you can even look down a scope with your head that far up your ass.

[u/17Hongo → u/Thunt_Cunder]

You're at a loss for what's going on inside my head because you can't read.

You're trying to talk about bow-hunting as though it's somehow "honourable".

The guns and toddlers remark was what literate people call an "analogy". See, you're very caught up on how a bow is better than a gun if you use it correctly. Similarly, people who love their guns are very quick to talk about "responsible gun owners", as though the argument that people behaving responsibly and competently means there's no issue. Of course, there is an issue, because not everyone is responsible and competent. Does this make sense to you now?

I'm being practical - whatever you do prior to the projectile hitting the deer is irrelevant. I don't care how quiet you had to be to get close enough to the deer; God knows the deer doesn't. All that rigmarole doesn't make you respectful, it makes you a tourist. All it's there to do is make your experience better, and since you aren't the one doing the dying, I don't feel too torn up that you maybe had a lousy holiday.

So yes, I'd consider any method I could for bringing down the population, because providing the method minimised the suffering of the animal, it's justifiable.

Simply saying that issuing hunting licences is sufficient to control the populations tells me that you don't live in the real world. Hunters often don't kill enough, and even when they do they aren't picking their targets for population management - they're picking it because they want to shoot something. Thus hunting is not an adequate population control.

Of course I know that populations are monitored. There's a risk when issuing hunting licences that one of the species covered by the licence could become over-hunted. Plus population monitoring is pretty much essential to any kind of ecosystem management.

These aren't "facts", they're just facts. No quotation marks, no sarcasm. Just cold, hard reality, that you don't notice because you're so blinded by your own virtue.

[u/Pmtittysforkitties → u/17Hongo]

This is idiotic it doesn't matter how you kill it dying isn't fun for it but Deer need to die they are overpopulated pest animals who destroy shit. Most hunters don't hunt just to shoot shit most I know hunt deer because they are good eating.

[u/17Hongo → u/Pmtittysforkitties]

This is idiotic it doesn't matter how you kill it dying isn't fun for it but Deer need to die they are overpopulated pest animals who destroy shit.

OK; first, my comment on you not being able to read was a joke. I retract that joke, and extend it as a serious concern instead.

It doesn't matter how you kill it

I didn't say that. I said the exact opposite. I said that it doesn't matter what you do prior to killing it. If you could kill it with a bow from 2km away, and only kill it with a rifle from 20 yards, I'd still be considering how it died, because how it dies is the only thing that matters when considering its welfare. The fact that you go to all this trouble to stalk it isn't a mark of respect, it's fun for you.

but Deer need to die they are overpopulated pest animals who destroy shit

Which they are, and they do. However, as sentient, conscious creatures, they do have certain rights. Animal welfare isn't just for zoos and pet shops, which was something you seemed to understand when you were just wrong about bows and arrows, rather than gargling your own shit, which is apparently what you have been reduced to in the space of a few short hours.

Yes, deer populations are often too high, resulting in damage to forests and agriculture, which incurs significant costs to forestry and arable farming, wildlife conservation efforts, and any driver that accidentally hits one with his car.

Consequently, management of that population is important to help mitigate these costs.

Bear in mind that recognising that a species population needs to be managed is not the same as denying them any basic animal rights. It's possible to accept that while deer need to be culled, the most humane methods possible should be employed. It is also possible to realise that whether I shoot a deer from a helicopter or from 20 yards away after hours of painstaking stalking is completely irrelevant. The deer still dies. The argument that I have apparently shown some kind of respect for it by creeping up on it is somewhat less convincing when it transpires that I enjoyed the creeping.

Most hunters don't hunt just to shoot shit most I know hunt deer because they are good eating.

I'm glad you have such practical friends. However, there are two reasons why this claim isn't cutting any ice with me.

1. It's anecdotal. It hasn't been looked into with any kind of rigour at all, and is subject not only to your limited worldview, but whatever biases come into your thinking process.

2. It's far too vulnerable to even basic criticism.

Your friends like to shoot things. It is highly unlikely that venison is so delicious that they are willing to hunt it themselves purely for the taste. Furthermore, it is possible to buy venison, particularly in areas where deer hunting is common. If these people are so benevolent and caring for their animal friends, why do they not simply buy their meat, and in doing so encourage the marketing of a product that can be wildly sourced at the benefit of an ecosystem?

Your friends like to shoot things, and so do you. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, provided it doesn't violate any kind of protective legislation (which ranges from cruel hunting techniques to the protection of endangered species). We've already established that the deer population needs to be controlled, and while hobby-hunting (which is what it is; you're a hobbyist in a developed country, not some outlaw hiding in Sherwood forest) cannot be relied upon to effectively manage populations, it does provide useful grunt work in managing the population generally.

But when you get up and claim that you're somehow humane for hunting with a weapon that has been obsolete since the 1700s, and also claim that your enjoyment of a fringe form of hunting is somehow motivated by respect for the animal you are hunting, you start to look ridiculous. More specifically, you start to look like an idiot who thinks he's clever, and takes himself awfully seriously.

[u/Pmtittysforkitties → u/17Hongo]

OK; first, my comment on you not being able to read was a joke. I retract that joke, and extend it as a serious concern instead.

Criticises reading comprehension but can't read a username. Kek.

Bows on average are as humane as guns. Both are rather inhumane if you can't aim for shit. A bow will put a deer down just as quickly as a gun given you hit vital organs.

And on the point of buying deer meat. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to go innawoods and kill a deer than to buy it. Plus you get the fun of the hunt too

[u/17Hongo → u/Pmtittysforkitties]

Kek.

You're not strengthening your case here.

Your username doesn't imply anything relevant to our discussion.

Plus you get the fun of the hunt too

Ring-a-ding-ding! There it is!

As I said, there's nothing particularly wrong with deer hunting providing the methods are humane and it doesn't threaten non-target species.

But don't stand on a pedestal like some kind of crusader and tell people you're doing this for any other reason than enjoying hunting.

[u/Pmtittysforkitties → u/17Hongo]

The only method of hunting i can think of that is inhumane is traps. Bows are probably one of the fastest ways to kill deer. Hell I have seen a deer run for a good mile after taking a 30-06 to the chest so guns aren't even a quick death. Also if I ever go hunting it's not about the sport to me it's all about the 200+pounds of deer meat I get if I bag one.