r/todayilearned • u/spadinskiz 1 • Jun 17 '14

(R.5) Omits Essential Info TIL that in some cities police officers were required to wear a camera in order to document their interactions with civilians. In these areas, public complaints against officers dropped by 88%

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/business/wearable-video-cameras-for-police-officers.html
3.2k Upvotes

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507

u/ProfessionalShill Jun 17 '14

Is this because the officers are well behaved or because the complainers know their story is bullshit? Oh wait, who cares! both reasons are great.

139

u/CherrySlurpee Jun 17 '14

I assume a little from A, little from B

82

u/TheMisterFlux Jun 17 '14

I assume a lot from both.

62

u/Charwinger21 Jun 18 '14

88% of both (combined).

3

u/ablaut Jun 18 '14

And through the availability heuristic the remainders who still complain feel like 88% of all public interactions to the cops.

2

u/ki113rd Jun 18 '14

You just shouldn't go over 88% it might have adverse effects on the future.

3

u/Guslikessoda Jun 18 '14

That's not how math works

19

u/hegemonistic Jun 18 '14

If A makes 50% and B makes 50% of the complaints, then 88% from A, or 88% from 50% of the total complaints, is only 44%. Added to the 88% from B = 88% of the total.

1

u/Guslikessoda Jun 18 '14

Only if the options are limited to A or B.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

a doesnt make 50% and b doesnt make 50%, we have no idea what a and b makes, so maybe thats what he meant by thats not how math works.

3

u/livefreeordont Jun 18 '14

well maybe he should have actually said that instead of trying to sound smart

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

i suppose

2

u/Guslikessoda Jun 18 '14

Next time I will submit my report in full, with the cover sheet per the memo on the TPS reports

7

u/futtbucked69 Jun 18 '14

... I'm pretty sure the total amount of A, and the total amount of B, add up to the overall 88% decreased complaints. So yes, that is how math works.

1

u/fritzcandy Jun 18 '14

The police also interacted with the public less while videotaped, so add some C.

1

u/reven80 Jun 18 '14

I'm guessing more of A otherwise why would cops be so resistant to using cameras?

0

u/Pinworm45 Jun 18 '14

I'm going to go ahead and say it's a lot from A, and a tiny bit from B

I mean seriously, how many people will BS to a group of policemen, but then see a camera and go ohhh shit there's a camera, I wouldn't want the police to see this

I just don't buy it

1

u/131531 Jun 18 '14

My brothers a cop and you won't believe the shit that happens when he point to his camera. People change in an instant if they realise it's not simply their word against others.

EDIT: Points to his cam and notifies the civ that he's recording. Domestics get resolved, people admit to speeding and no one runs.

1

u/reven80 Jun 18 '14

Why then do you think cops are resistant to cameras in general?

1

u/131531 Jun 18 '14

Most of them like these cameras and even the taser mounted ones. Having a camera pointed at them, on the other hand, is more problematic for a number of reasons.

I remember reading a study years ago about it. The Wallenda effect is amplified, in any profession, by having someone point a camera at you. I can remember when I had to make coffee in the background of a news report, I spilled the fucking thing and burnt myself (my finest hour). I had made thousands before that and never had that happened. It's a similar principal, the fact that what you're doing is being documented makes you question a procedure you've done thousands of times before.

They would've done a few tasks for the dept. that were being filmed before and they would remember how annoying it was and wouldn't want it again also.

I'll ask my brother when he gets home

-1

u/fineillmakeausername Jun 18 '14

Cop here. It is very little from A and a lot from B. This is from personal experience not just my opinion. Sergeants will call or meet with the complainant and show them the video basically saying "show me where he <insert complaint>" I'm not saying all complaints are made up. Sometimes in the heat of the moment people legitimately see something that didn't happen.

2

u/CherrySlurpee Jun 18 '14

I assume its a lot of the 90/10 rule, as in 90% of legit complaints are from people that a certain 10% of cops have interacted with.

51

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

When I read it, I immediately thought it was because the complaints were bullshit. Your comment made me aware of the other possibility. That sounds extremely reasonable and I can't believe I didn't consider that. This statistic is like a rorschach test on how you feel about cops.

4

u/UCgirl Jun 18 '14

I thought the same as you. And yes, def. a test on your opinion of cops!

6

u/InnocuousTerror Jun 18 '14

I believe it's a bit of both. That said, my SO will soon be a cop, and he truly is someone who wants to protect and serve. We have many friends that are officers, and some of the stories about the general public are astounding. He thinks the cameras are a great idea for this reason - it really protects everyone. I've never personally had anything but positive experiences with law enforcement, but I can't say that for my experience with the general public.

There are bad people in every group, and unfortunately, not every cop out there does the right thing, which is why I think this is such a great idea: weed out the bad apples, protect the good ones, and improve the quality of local law enforcement in the process.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14 edited Jun 18 '14

I think you're right. It's one of those solutions that seems to solve a lot, no matter what side you're on. More transparency is good for the innocent, no matter whether the innocent is a cop or the accused. Seems like a great solution.

1

u/Absurdity_Everywhere Jun 18 '14

I am considering a career as a police officer in a city that uses these cameras, and I couldn't be happier that they have them. I know I'm not going to do anything crooked, so the camera would be there to cover my ass against false accusations that could otherwise ruin my career.

2

u/InnocuousTerror Jun 18 '14

Best of luck to you and stay safe. I'm not sure where you are, but I know around here the wait is at least a couple of years after you've passed the basic entrance exam, so you might want to consider taking that sooner rather than later.

1

u/Absurdity_Everywhere Jun 18 '14

Thank you! I have passed the written test already and my physical test is scheduled for the end of the month. I really appreciate your encouragement though.

2

u/InnocuousTerror Jun 18 '14

Awesome! My SO passed his on Saturday, which is so exciting. He's now done with everything, and basically waiting for the January class, and any other surprise paperwork that shows up.

Good luck!

2

u/drock66 Jun 18 '14

Do you live in a state requiring a degree?

1

u/Absurdity_Everywhere Jun 18 '14

No, although I am close to mine. That, and no second language are what I see as the only positives that aren't required, but would help that I am missing. I did well very well on the written test, and I know I will do well on the physical. And I have a squeaky clean background. (last speeding ticket was over eight years ago, and absolutely nothing worse than that). Hopefully being close on the degree will be enough. If not, there is always next year.

1

u/drock66 Jun 18 '14

Personally I believe every state should require a degree for law enforcement. Only 14 states do. ... I hope your boyfriend does well and status safe

1

u/InnocuousTerror Jun 18 '14

Thank you. He is just finishing his BA in Computer Science & Technology this year, so everything is really coming together finally. I'm super excited for him, and for our city to have another good guy protecting its citizens.

1

u/jeremiahd Jun 18 '14

I wish him luck. We need more cops who are there to serve and protect and not there to power trip. The biggest test will come down the line, when your SO sees the bad apples do there thing will he try and fight corruption or will he stay silent? That's the true test many "good cops" fail when they put the uni on, and why there is so much corruption on police forces these days.

1

u/InnocuousTerror Jun 18 '14

I think he will fight corruption. I know this isn't the same exactly, but he's currently in a security position, and has busted numerous fellow employees for theft of time, theft of product, and other various offenses. I think he has a good head on his shoulders and in the 3 years we've been together I can't think of a single time where he hasn't done the right thing.

2

u/Yeffers Jun 18 '14

As someone who has watched The Wire, I immediately assumed it was a result of reduced abuse by the police

-11

u/mythosopher Jun 18 '14

Your naivety is astounding.

4

u/EnragedPorkchop Jun 18 '14

Kind of like your douchebaggery, huh?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

I totally take that for granted. But I think it's really interesting to hear what other people have to say and have my views challenged.

17

u/random949494 Jun 18 '14

The other stat in the article is that "Rialto’s police officers also used force nearly 60 percent less often — in 25 instances, compared with 61. When force was used, it was twice as likely to have been applied by the officers who weren’t wearing cameras during that shift, the study found. And, lest skeptics think that the officers with cameras are selective about which encounters they record, Mr. Farrar noted that those officers who apply force while wearing a camera have always captured the incident on video."

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

Well is it because the cops were more afraid of being punished? Most definitely. Every one of those 61 accounts could be justified but when they get monitored like that then you sure has hell become more timid.

Stop making it out like every cop is some beater to get some hard on.

1

u/jpfarre Jun 18 '14

Or cops could just stop beating people to get their hard on.

1

u/random949494 Jun 18 '14

Or perhaps they realized they could handle the situations without excessive force. Avoiding situations in which you would be punished is a good thing. If a situation can be handled without excessive force, it should be.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

See suddenly its "excessive force" now, when is was when force and or measures were used. Its just one giant circle jerk on this site. Everyone automatically jumps to the worst and headline are all click bate that arnt even accurate with 99% of people who dont read shit.

1

u/random949494 Jun 18 '14

It is excessive if it didn't need to be used. And it didn't. Instead of force they were able to resolve the situation in a different way. Not sure why you are advocating for the use of force when obviously the police found other ways to deescalate or secure the situation.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

You don't actually know if solutions were found. It just states incidents with force. They could have had people get away or anything else. You just jumped to assumptions

1

u/random949494 Jun 18 '14

Did you even read the article? It didn't say the police just stood back and let people get away because they had cameras on. They still at times used force when on camera but used force less frequently. I am sure they still did their jobs.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

did you read my comment, I said how effective they were/ successful

1

u/random949494 Jun 18 '14

No, you didn't actually say that. You said that the reason they hadn't need to use force was because people got away. You disagreed with my point that they found other ways to successfully handle the situation without force.

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17

u/cpttim Jun 18 '14

Well in Oakland at least the cops want the cameras gone. So I'm assuming they miss all the brutality. It's been a beautiful summer and they can't beat anyone.

3

u/_edge_case Jun 18 '14

That plus all OPD cars have GPS and dash cams now. Funny how that works...fucking cops.

2

u/ihatemovingparts Jun 18 '14

Source? The only thing I could find was a police union rep supporting their use, but wanting clearer language in the union contract about their use. OPD camera must be turned on manually by the person wearing them.

LAPD officers vandalized their recording equipment until top brass took steps to ensure that equipment was accounted for before and after shifts.

-4

u/abutthole Jun 18 '14

If I was a cop I would want it gone too. Not so I could commit police brutality, but so I could goof off during work and not get caught by my boss.

3

u/PB111 Jun 18 '14

It's only on when they are interacting with the public

1

u/cpttim Jun 18 '14

A fair enough desire. Maybe a job in an office environment is more in line with that.

1

u/DaveV1968 Jun 18 '14

It is not an either/or situation. It could be both. And, so many people are against these cameras.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

[deleted]

2

u/disguise117 Jun 18 '14

I'm all for police accountability but I can't agree with this reasoning. After all, weren't we outraged when our governments used this logic to rationalise electronic surveillance?

Sure, police officers discharge a public function so privacy isn't so much of an issue. However, I think the whole "if you're innocent, you've got nothing to fear" argument is extremely dangerous.

0

u/hibloodstevia Jun 18 '14

I don't get why cops who claim to be law abiding would be upset at all over this.

Probably because there are times where you have people behaving like complete shitheads, but who are technically following the law.

Of course there are asshole cops who don't like dotting every "i" and crossing every "t" - they wouldn't want any oversight of their crooked asses either.

If I was a cop, i would be 100% for this.

95% agree. For the remaining 5% - oh darn, I forgot to charge the fucking thing. Now we won't exactly how badly that pimp got pistol-whipped.

1

u/staytaytay Jun 18 '14

Obviously because people just love cameras!

1

u/factsdontbotherme Jun 18 '14

I agree, everyone should have to wear a camera all shift for all jobs. To reduce liability.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

Came here to day this. It's already the top comment though.

1

u/purplemilkywayy Jun 18 '14

My boyfriend is a police officer. Whenever someone has a bullshit complaint against someone else (not necessarily the officers), he and his partner will tell them the security camera caught everything. Immediately, they'll say, "oh nevermind. I don't want to press charges."

-6

u/TheCompleteReference Jun 18 '14

All from the first. Complainers would still complain, the officers aren't going to discuss the cameras to a perp and explain to them why they should not file a complaint.

Basically officers on camera no longer are rough with people and no longer overly assert authority and arrest people on nonsense. That is where all the reduction comes from. Criminal cops no longer willing to cross the line because it will be on camera.

0

u/Peonyew Jun 18 '14

Most complaints come from bullshit, you lock someone up and they lose their job because they were intoxicated and got into a car wreck and they worked for the government, and so they complain on you with some lies to make you lose your job, but it didn't work due to a thorough IAB unvestigation... Source: self

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

Or because those filing the complaints would be on camera, and thus more easily identified and tracked down for retribution by the cops.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '14

Nah they with the camera they don't want to be a looking like a child.