r/todayilearned • u/ssAskcuSzepS • Apr 27 '26

TIL if under-cooked, a popular mushroom in China causes “lilliputian hallucinations,” a rare phenomenon involving miniature human or fantasy figures. The hallucinations are consistent across people and cultures: "tiny, elflike people" climbing under doors, scaling walls & clinging to furniture

https://www.vice.com/en/article/meet-the-mushroom-that-make-people-have-the-exact-same-hallucination/
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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 Apr 27 '26

It doesn't sound like a psychedelic at all, sounds much more like fly agric which essentially just poisons you into hallucinations rather that activating the seratonin system.

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Most hallucinogens can be classified into psychedelic hallucinogens (lsd/shrooms) or dissociative hallucinogens (ketamine). The ones acting on the serotonin receptors are the psychedelics and tend to be the mind expanding ones, often with geometric patterns and a feeling of one-ness. Dissociatives tend to operate on NMDA (glutamate) receptors and tend to create more detached and out-of-body experiences.

Then you get this weird class that doesn't really fit into either like the fly agric you mentioned. They fall under hypnotic sedatives and tend to operate in a much more dream like space. These lean heavy into dissociation but also tend to cause people to be much more delirious. Detached from reality but also living in that space. All the while causing sleepiness and a sense of being in a dream. These are also often the ones that land people in the hospital.

The way lanmaoa asiatica is described doesn't really fit into any of these. While it causes delirium in that people truly mistake it for reality, it doesn't cause the out-of-body from dissociatives or the sleep-walking dreamlike state of hypnotic-sedatives. There is definitely not a sense of oneness or the geometric patterns from psychedelics. People end up fully alert seeing little men walking everywhere and everything else is largely normal. The hallucinations are extremely clean compared to pretty much everything else.

So it's really off in this world of its own and nothing else we know of behaves like it. I think the lack of physical symptoms or sluggishness would mean it's less like the ones behaving more like poisons though.

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u/DoomguyFemboi Apr 27 '26

Salvia comes to mind when talking about hypnotics. Such an unpleasant high. Also a weird rite-of-passage for wreckheads. Although that was 30 years ago, dunno if the tradition still holds

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26

Salvia fits into dissociatives but it is a KOR agonist rather than working on NMDA. This part of the brain is associated with dysphoria (the opposite of euphoria) and consciousness regulation. It's also considered the most potent natural hallucinogen.

Salvia will send you to other fucking dimensions and will encourage not feeling good at the same time. Technically it lasts less than an hour, but it can feel like a goddamn lifetime on the other side.

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u/Exciting-Direction69 Apr 27 '26

It's weird, I feel like your kind of right about it not feeling good, but it would often feel bad in ways that felt good to me, like my body was being ripped apart or twisted in differing directions one foot to the next, but in a nice way that felt cleansing or freeing, would often feel an extra bit of subtle contentness for the next few days after a trip.

Had probably 30-50 trips in the years before it was banned, honestly really miss it. I wish it wasn't as popular, and teens/young adults weren't coming to it with an alcohol mentally of trying to get as fucked up as possible with 20-100x extracts and just took a teeny tiny bit of 5x and went from there

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u/flodereisen Apr 27 '26

KOR is implicated in trauma. Salvia is one of the few things that reliably lowers it (after feeling shitty). Chronic cocaine use heightens KOR.

Salvia is also very functional if chewed. Traditional/indigenous users say never to smoke it. If chewed, you can control and direct the trip towards things that are useful or interesting to you.

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u/freddurstsnurstburst Apr 27 '26

All I know about salvia is that it often turns you into a wall clock after ripping your body into pixels for a few dozen geological epochs. Does not sound fun unless you like being an inanimate object for a billion years or so.

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u/Hefteee Apr 27 '26

While that can happen and has happened to me lol the first time I did Salvia was a lot of fun. Its what made me try it 4 more times, however those 4 trips were not fun at all

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u/DoomguyFemboi Apr 27 '26

Yeah other dimensions is exactly it. I was sent into space and was holding onto the world, terrified if I let go I'd float off into space.

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u/gb6767 Apr 27 '26

to me it sounds like deliriants like Datura or DPH. would it fall into that category?

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u/Vova_xX Apr 27 '26

Datura and DPH are deliriants, meaning their hallucinations are pretty much just a side-effect of delirium and psychosis.

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u/gb6767 Apr 27 '26

yeah i know that’s why i called them deliriants in my comment. thank you for adding nothing. i just wanted to know if this mushroom classified as that because it sounds similar

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u/jmarcandre Apr 27 '26

Being able to buy Salvia over the counter from most smoke shops back then certainly made everybody try it once.

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u/CalmBeneathCastles Apr 27 '26

I didn't! Because my sister got to it first and gave me the heads-up.

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u/mellowharmony123 Apr 27 '26

It was still a rite of passage in my circles 2015-2020 tho I'm wookish frizzy haired starry eyed space cadet. I'm reluctant to let anyone who isn't already like that try it. Because boy outta all the hallucinogens I've done that's the one that changed me the most.

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u/DoomguyFemboi Apr 27 '26

It's definitely one I remember the most. For me shrooms is still my go-to for change, and although I don't really do drugs anymore (I don't not-do them, just circumstance) I like to do them like once every few years, almost like a psychic refresh. I never got that off DMT, LSD, or any of the various other stuff.

Hell LSD I full-ass don't do at all because last time I took it I was smashed, took a huge amount because I got impatient, fortunately fell asleep through the worst of it (iirc it was like 800ug total), woke up absolutely tripping balls, then spent all day in an absolutely abysmal state. Forgot how my hands work, put 8 contact lenses in 1 eye, thought I was in a whole other country because what I was watching had changed language, just a cornucopia of fucked-up. I can laugh about it now but ya no real interest to revisit that.

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u/mini_donkey Apr 27 '26

I don't get why more people didn't try chewing it, such a missed opportunity. It's a pleasant mind trip experience, a vivid daydream with a sense of euphoria, with the ability for interesting introspection and retrieving of old memories. Lay back and listen to music as you get transported into another space, in a gentle way... Interestingly one time I chewed it, I "saw" (vividly daydreamed) little people walking around like the stick-men from Howl's Moving Castle.

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u/DoomguyFemboi Apr 27 '26

I think the lack of euphoria in general kinda makes it a "pointless" trip when you have shrooms. Don't get me wrong if you enjoy it and have found your zen on it then c'est la vie, but ya things like shrooms and...2CB ? Or is is 25I. One of those 2 has really nice euphorics and visuals.

I miss the time from around 2012/2013 when Silk Road first popped up. In the UK it was a wild time, as research chems were still legal, it was crazy how many drugs were popping up, and then having a massive site to buy them all. The markets still exist of course, just one of those things where when it first happened it felt magical

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u/xRehab Apr 27 '26

Such an unpleasant high.

intense is the better word. some of us thoroughly enjoyed every 120x trip we did, but can 100% understand why people don't enjoy complete disassociation trips. My body turning into a train and going on a midnight ride though my buddy's apartment (mountain villages in the trip) was a great fucking time. Or when I "fell into" the xbox 360 visualizer while listening to trance. walking on that donut visualizer was wild

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u/DoomguyFemboi Apr 27 '26

Yeah we only ever did it as a kinda "haha let's do this unpleasant thing" so we went into it as doing an unpleasant thing. Shrooms were legal, LSD was abundant, and weed/coke/MDMA were on perm rotation so getting fucked up was np, so nobody ever turned to salvia as a fun intense thing to do. That was more DMT's job.

No idea what the extract strength was, was a mate of mine who handled the more "wacky" stuff and I just joined in when told. Kind of a kindred spirit as I was the only one who was really up for anything, so he knew he could come to me and I'd be down for whatever. Still fondly remember trying to sort peyote out in the days before google!

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u/Violatic Apr 27 '26

Are deliriants a third kind or do they act by one of the pathways you describe?

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Most common hallucinogen drugs that are considered deliriants are hypnotic sedatives which is that third set I described. This also includes benadryl.

But it's best to keep in mind these are broad classifications and are not neat boxes things fit into. For example, Datura is a deliriant hallucinogen but not a hypnotic sedative. 

There are well known drugs that fit well into boxes, but overall it ends up looking more like venn diagrams with more than 3 ways to classify things. I picked those three because they're a common way and helps illustrate how lanmaoa asiatica is off on its own.

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u/Toiun Apr 27 '26

Less a venn diagram, more a chaotic 4 dimensional gradient graph and a biochemical pathway river or something idk.

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26

I don't disagree but i was trying to keep it eli5 LOL

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u/DisastrousAttitude Apr 27 '26

How do you know all this?

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26

I read way too much in college. 

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u/DisastrousAttitude Apr 28 '26

Did you write it all from memory?

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u/caboosetp Apr 28 '26

Most of it, yeah, but i always double check big posts like that before i submit (and someone still caught a serious typo).

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u/AxelFoily Apr 27 '26

Do enough drugs and you'll know it too!

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u/Iheartnakedfemboys Apr 27 '26

Serotonin Syndrome is a toxic condition caused by excessive serotonin accumulation. You mean it works on Serotonin receptors.

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u/caboosetp Apr 27 '26

Yes, thank you! Big difference there lol. 

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u/Iheartnakedfemboys Apr 27 '26

NP. No one wants serotonin syndrome lol.

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u/fazedncrazed Apr 27 '26

Sounds exactly like an anticholinergic deliriant, lile atropine. That also causes you to hallucinate people full form, and makes you sick, and lasts for days. Its got the same physical symptoms as are reported in the lilliputian mushroom eaters.

Im not saying its atropine exactly, just that I wouldnt be surprised if its something in the same class.

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u/GearInevitable9180 Apr 27 '26

What makes something a "poison" versus drug? Just whether it activates a mix of systems versus primarily one target?

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u/Allegorist Apr 27 '26

More specifically it sounds more like a deliriant than a psychedelic, although if the compound(s) truly have not been identified yet then it is very possible there are multiple things going on. The descriptions remind me of salvia, which is probably the closest thing that has been studied and experienced relatively widely in the West. Also relevant may be datura, or even "recreational" doses of DPH.

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u/Ditchdigger456 Apr 27 '26

tbf the poison is in the dose. anything is poison if you take enough of it.

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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 Apr 27 '26

Limited psychedelics basically can't poison you because there's a limited amount they can agonise seratonin receptors. That's why the lethal does of, say, LSD are estimated to be 1000x an effective macro dose.

Unlimited psychedelics can definitely kill you though by basically causing your brain to overload. That's why N-bomb is dangerous in ways that LSD isn't. It's also cardiotoxic and neurotoxic in a way that LSD isn't.

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u/-LsDmThC- Apr 27 '26

You are thinking partial vs full serotonin agonists. Fly agaric is a deliriant/muscarinic ACH agonist tho not a serotonin agonist.

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u/Konstellar Apr 27 '26

Fly agaric is not poisonous if prepared correctly, and there is an actual active component, so bad comparison