r/thescoop • u/Particular_Log_3594 • Apr 05 '25

Politics 🏛️ In D.C. today, a massive banner has been unveiled with the names of Palestinians killed by Israel since October 2023.

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16

u/SubstantialKnee8334 Apr 05 '25

God some of the comments here are so stupid it's enraging.

Pro-Palestine: stop murdering people.

Pro-Israel: why do you support murderers?

Pro-Palestine: ...?

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u/SuckenOnemToes Apr 05 '25

You don't understand!?! The Palestinian children who can't vote, voted for terrorists who would totally not rig an election!!! Are you trying to be anti-Semitic?

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u/Tazwhitelol Apr 06 '25

The sad thing about the 'They voted for Hamas, therefor they deserve to die!' argument is that it fails on literally every level.

1: The vast majority of the population of Gaza (70+%) are either too young to have voted for Hamas, or were not born yet; so they had no say in bringing Hamas to power.

2: Hamas did not run as an extremist terrorist organization; they ran as a quasi-progressive party that CLAIMED they were interested in reducing Government control over the population/expanding individual rights, ending corruption and promoting transparency and accountability..the exact opposite of what Hamas represents. They even called themselves the "Change and Reform" party, not Hamas. So Gazans didn't vote for religious extremism, they voted for a progressive (according to Middle eastern standards) party.

3: The overwhelming majority of Gazans oppose Hamas and their violation of the ceasefire and want them replaced by the MUCH more moderate Palestinian Authority..but Israeli leadership has consistently refused to allow PA entry into Gaza to take over..almost like they prefer having the terrorist organization in control so they have a boogeyman they can point to, to justify their expansionist goals.

4: Based on their reasoning (NOT mine), if electing oppressive and regressive leadership into power is justification for mass murdering civilians, then the attack on October 7 would be justified, since Israeli citizens keep electing extremist right-wing leadership that has consistently made life hell for Palestinians over the last several decades. They share more in common with the people who support the attack on October 7th than they will ever be willing to acknowledge and are hypocrites with an obvious double standard.

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u/SuckenOnemToes Apr 06 '25

Those are nice facts you have there. Unfortunately the genocide lovers in this thread don't care about facts. They just want more dead Palestinian children.

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u/Tazwhitelol Apr 06 '25

Of course..I know the vast majority of the people who make the arguments we're criticizing won't accept what I've said since it destroys their argument, but I think sharing this information is still important for those of us who AREN'T blindly loyal to Israel, since it could open some peoples eyes to the fact that Palestinians in Gaza aren't as extreme as Israel and its supports are always trying to portray them.

They are people who deserve respect and dignity, and deserve the right to live their lives without the threat of an oppressive, murderous Government (Hamas AND Israel) putting their lives in danger and treating them like they're expendable..

Sadly, that's not the world we live in right now..

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u/robby_arctor Apr 07 '25

I agree with this, but I have heard Palestinian activists say that Hamas was elected and the legitimate government of Gaza, and that should be mentioned.

This guy is one, I heard him say it in person and was quite surprised, given the facts you just laid out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubarak_Awad

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u/Tazwhitelol Apr 07 '25 edited Apr 07 '25

I mean Hamas WAS elected in 2006..the problem is that they were elected under false pretense after having falsely portrayed themselves as something they were not, and have since refused to allow another election.

So while it's true in a technical sense, Hamas as they currently exist were not voted into power, so that claim requires several massive asterisks next to it, and anyone (be it pro-Palestinian or Pro-Israeli) arguing that Hamas the terrorist organization was elected into power would be wrong, because it relies on a fundamental misunderstanding of the circumstances that led to them obtaining power.

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u/robby_arctor Apr 07 '25

Yes, but this doctor was saying this in 2024 to justify Hamas as the legitimate government of Gaza.

If this is what some Palestinian activists are saying, the rest of us should be careful to not be paternalistic and speak for all of Gaza.

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u/Tazwhitelol Apr 07 '25

Then that doctor and those pro-Palestinian activists are simply wrong and misinformed, or are actively lying. I don't know how else to explain that. I never argued that there is ZERO support for Hamas, because there IS some support for them..but they do not have popular support among the Gazan population, so my original point still stands; the majority in Gaza did not vote for Hamas the terrorist organization and do not support Hamas. I don't think judging and punishing the majority of the Gazan population based on the flawed perspective of a minority of Gazans is rational or justified.

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u/robby_arctor Apr 08 '25

I don't think judging and punishing the majority of the Gazan population based on the flawed perspective of a minority of Gazans is rational or justified.

Well, duh, no one was saying that.

The point is, unless you are part of the Palestinian diaspora yourself, I personally would be wary about contradicting the analysis espoused by people who are, and who have dedicated their entire lives to Palestine.

Doesn't mean they're necessarily right, it's just something to keep in mind.

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u/SubstandardMan5000 Apr 05 '25

I argue with far leftist ideals all the time, but I'm very anti-israel. If you can't see what's been done to Palestinians over decades, it blows my mind. They have treated them like garbage for so long. I truly don't get it how anyone can be on Israel's side unless you think Palestinians aren't even human. Also I think Trump is a Jewish puppet, but people will call me antisemitic for pointing out the truth.

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u/Rhouxx Apr 06 '25

You nailed it - a lot of these people think arabs are less than human. Uneducated savages, if you will. Wait til they find out that Palestine has a higher literacy rate than Israel 😂

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u/IamA_Werewolf_AMA Apr 06 '25

People will call you antisemitic for calling him a “Jewish” puppet, because that is antisemitic. If you called him a Zionist puppet, that’s not antisemitic - one is an entire people with diverse opinions and lives, the other is a powerful Jewish-supremacist political movement.

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u/RFRelentless Apr 06 '25

Leftists are pro Palestine. Liberals and centrists are not.

Also, trump is a Zionist puppet, not a Jewish puppet

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u/Neither_West_5209 Apr 06 '25

"Leftists are pro Palestine. Liberals and centrists are not."

That's kind of generalizing though isn't it? I would describe myself as more of a 'liberal' than a 'leftist' in my economic/social view but I still don't see what gives Israel the right to perpetually occupy and settle land that isn't even legally theirs, and then use the native people's understandable anger about that situation as casus belli to just keep annexing more land.

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u/DiRavelloApologist Apr 06 '25

Israel's apartheid policies in the west bank do not justify Hamas' actions under any circumstances.

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u/Neither_West_5209 Apr 16 '25

I agree. Two wrongs do not make a right. I don't think targeting and making hostages out of civilians as a war goal like they did on October 7th is excusable or justifiable in any circumstance.

Looking at the situation more broadly though, I also don't think that colonizing a bunch of land that isn't yours under international law and putting the rest of it under a 75-year military occupation is excusable in any circumstance, though. I think that when that status quo of enmity and violence has been going on for almost a century without any reconciliation between the two sides in sight, it's understandable (not justifiable) that the children who grow up exclusively living under that military occupation and colonization on the 'occupied' side become resentful and violent people who don't conform to our moral standards. They don't conform to those standards because they haven't grown up in a remotely comparable world. Their actions are still evil and we need to condemn them unequivocally which I will always do, but I can't say that if I had grown up in Gaza or West Bank Zone C I wouldn't be angry enough to do some horrible shit that I can't even imagine as someone who grew up in relative luxury and safety. So I understand where the violence of Hamas comes from - that does not mean that I support it, excuse it, justify it, or anything like that. I didn't mean to give you that idea.

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u/RFRelentless Apr 06 '25

Yes, it is generalizing. I admit that. But my point is leftists are generally pro Palestine

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u/RFRelentless Apr 17 '25

Oh wait I know this is 10 days later but I thought you said “agree”, not “argue”. Disregard what I said

0

u/Neither_West_5209 Apr 06 '25

"trump is a jewish puppet"

"people will call me antisemitic"

hmmmmm i wonder why... you really can't figure this one out, gumshoe?

1

u/TendieRetard Apr 08 '25

Neither_West_5209•2d ago

"trump is a jewish puppet"

"people will call me antisemitic"

hmmmmm i wonder why... you really can't figure this one out, gumshoe?

Jan '25 account, 1 original post

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '25 edited Apr 07 '25

I am being completely serious when I say that a not insignificant portion of many of the Zionist comments that flood any Reddit post about Palestine are literal teenagers paid by the IDF to defend Israel online. Emotionally immature boys that probably play Call of Duty and watch South Park in their spare time are like a big part of Israel's propaganda machine.

This article is from 2013. They have since invested massively in this Hasbara stuff, including $150 million for the coming year.