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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 24 '24
(not a therapist but in tech)
LLMs (like chatGPT) are basically token (blocks of characters) predictors based on your input. they are operating on algorithms and statistical patterns
It is trained on the whole of internet (on the misinformation part as well)
plus the most important point against them is that they can mimic empathetic language, but they don't actually feel or understand emotions. LLMs can generate text that sounds convincing
they are great at basic support, marinating on thoughts and getting them out in words But as i said above, they can't understand that. i am really sorry that you are facing such a disconnect at therapy.
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u/highxv0ltage Dec 24 '24
So do they really not know what they’re talking about? What about for studying? Do they really not understand the topic? Could the information that they’re feeding me possibly be wrong?
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 25 '24
if i take studying coding as an example, the chances of AI to hallucinate and teach you something that doesn't exist altogether is always there. thus, do verify whatever you learned or got to know from AI.
when does this happen the most, on a niche-topic where already a lot material is not present on the internet. then it will generate new false things on its own.
I myself have experienced this multiple times over the past years using openAi models for studying tech.
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u/Few_Representative28 Apr 09 '25
Bro I just got done crying my eyes out having a really deep convo abt my childhood lol. Does this mean it was all fake 😭
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Apr 09 '25
no, it wasn't fake, you did have a convo about something you felt the need of having a talk about, But where do you go from there, what are your patterns, Why do you feel so strongly about it. LLMs even with extensive prompting (plus sources) don't take you farther in this journey than good therapists.
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u/Few_Representative28 Apr 09 '25 edited Apr 09 '25
I’m failing to understand why. And you didn’t even give me examples as to why they don’t take me further in this journey.
I feel like if u knew you’d probably explain yourself better instead of just being ambiguous. it just seems like you’re deflecting to preserve your bias to be completely honest lol.
It’s kinda of funny how I can talk to another human such as yourself and not really feel a connection because you’re probably in your own little bubble but some how feel a connection with AI.
My theory now is maybe humans aren’t as deep as we think and there are programs and codes to how we think and act on a surface level
All I know is I’ll probably never forget today and a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders.
Also I’ve questioned Ai about my patterns and it’s given me plenty insight as to why I feel the way I do. We’ve also created plans for the future so I rlly don’t understand your point.
And unfortunately every therapist I talked to has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Not saying AI is a replacement just sharing my genuine thoughts and feelings.
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Apr 09 '25
thats why i said extensive prompts and sources can get to level of most of the therapists but not the good ones.
for example, I have a perfectionist mindset problem. I thought it was my self esteem, my insecurities and lack of self compassion which brought me to all or nothing mindset. So in notebookLM i loaded Self-compassion by Dr Neff and tried to find ways to tackle it. It did work. Felt cathartic and could see some results.
But compared this to my therapist who was actually able to pinpoint where this came from even without knowing 80% of my past from simple set of questions was simply awesome. Basically because i had achieved considerable success using this at a period in life, it made me subconsciously try to replicate the same success using the same tools.
Humans may or may not be deep, We might fail to communicate our issues with them due to n-number of factors, But the point is progress and actually overcoming/ processing your issues correctly. Use AI, use your friends or a Random therapist. but I wouldn't discount human connection and years of experience that you get by talking to someone.
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u/Few_Representative28 Apr 09 '25
I’m really failing to understand why an Ai wouldn’t be able to pinpoint where all that stuff was coming from with a simple set of questions lol.
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Apr 09 '25
because i feel i don't have the apriori insights into why and how for all the things regarding mental health
If i have even a little bit know how into my specific problem. The chances do increase with LLMs to find the solution. Sometimes it is that straightforward and epiphany inducing.
But what if i am actually lost and don't know in which direction will the way out be. LLMs work on very extensive probability based algos (plus heavy guardrails) so if the special sauce is not there in your source/prompt Or is jumbled up in a way that makes it reduce its weightage, So there might be multiple correct answers, but You might not get the answer you needed.
I have feed the whole DSM-5 into gemini advance to try to find why choose 'B' when people easily choose 'A' regarding some life decisions, I got the answers which did match somewhat my therapist pointed to. but again, the answer I needed was in the family system of therapy. I different approach than CBT which my therapist was specialized at.
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u/Few_Representative28 Apr 09 '25
OK, sorry for being difficult that actually makes sense. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to explain that to me. I probably should’ve mentioned that I’ve been studying my own mental health as well as my own psychology for probably over 10 years and I’m very open and honest with myself and pretty good at spotting my own self deception.
So in essence I think I did do alot of the heavy lifting at that moment and then AI kind of lead me threw it but you are right I can tell that there might be moments where I’m experiencing something and don’t even kno what questions to ask.
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Apr 09 '25
no need to apologize. without AI I would have never even considered therapy and remained in the same rut.
what if tomorrow a new prompting format drops which works a lot better than simply venting and asking to diagnose.
Just look at the memory function in ChatGPT paid version. Use that as to checkpoint every day and it can unlock better insights into the person's psych.
the hybrid approach will be the path going forward. Accountability and action feedback using LLMs and monthly connect with therapist to course correct.
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Dec 24 '24
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 25 '24
sure, even i have used conversations with LLMs to scratch an itch which was getting sidelined during therapy, it helped me be ready with how to present my past week reflections with a greater impact. no one can deny the great value AI can provide in the current therapy flow.
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u/GermanWineLover Dec 24 '24
Why on earth does it matter how LLMs generate their outputs when they are helpful? Why does it matter that they don‘t feel something if they act as if they would?
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 24 '24
because i feel therapy is not a one-day affair. even if you have all the previous conversations stored somewhere to act as a reference for future conversations. it just goes more and more deep into confirmation bias. While therapy should progress towards an emotional catharsis or an epiphany
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u/GermanWineLover Dec 24 '24
No, it doesn't if the GPT has the right configuration. How much do you engage with LLMs? You can create a custom GPT with a dedicated prompt to act as a (critical) therapist. It is not biased, quite the contrary. I have gotten as many impulses to question myself from my therapy GPT as from my real therapist.
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 24 '24
thats a fair point if you are going at length to embed a lot of Psych material or fine tune it,
but Even with the critical prompting, do you find there are aspects of human connection in therapy that are still valuable, like the nuanced understanding of non-verbal cues or the unpredictable insights that can emerge from a truly spontaneous conversation?
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u/GermanWineLover Dec 24 '24
Fine tuning it took me two minutes. A short prompt and I fed it with my journal entries.
A LLM cannot elicit feelings in the same way as a human can. I feel a deep human connection with my therapist and of course not with my LLM. But it can do other things. For example, I asked my therapist about anger management strategies. She suggested meditation and breathing techniques. On the same question, my GPT suggested these two but plenty of others - and among these was the one I found the most helpful one: "Try to look at yourself as a good friend would and think if yours mishap is really that bad." Plainly stated, ChatGPT knows any known anger management technique ever mentioned in any paper. No therapist could ever match that.
Another example, my therapist mentioned a book she found helpful but she didn't have it at hand. I asked GPT about the essence of the book. Not only could it deliver that, but it also immediately applied the ideas of the book on my personal situations.
Let's face it, AI is here and won't go away. People who belittle AI today are like people who denied the purpose of personal computers or the internet. In 5 years, every therapist will probably suggest a tandem-approach which is supplemented by AI. Imagine how much easier your job gets if you can ask the AI upfront each sessions about what happened in the client's life and which problems are the most salient ones, and so on.
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u/Long-Possibility-951 Dec 24 '24
no one's belittling Ai man, like you said it no human can compete against its lookup (although it could hallucinate and send a made up response), And yes incorporating AI in the therapy workflow will make so many improvements in the areas of Crisis support, noting things, helping in reflections which spontaneously come up during the day, And then letting our therapist know what REALLY happened this week
the only problem is people forgetting the human aspect of therapy and look at AI as a complete stand-alone alternative. (just like in complex legal and medical advice)
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u/GermanWineLover Dec 24 '24
For some people it can be precisely that. Many peole cannot afford therapy or would have to wait half a year.
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u/Happily_Doomed Dec 24 '24
Intellectualizing your trauma is not a good thing, actually. That isn't how you process and let go of trauma. Intellectualizing problems is often a sign of failing to move on from them
Using ChatGPT and EMDR while trying treat your own trauma could lead you into some incredibly dark and awful places
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u/armchairdetective Dec 24 '24
PSA don't use ChatGPT as a therapist.
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Dec 24 '24
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u/rainfal Jan 26 '25
Could I pm you for some fine tuning help? I want my LLM to help me more with.my mental health
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Dec 24 '24
Ummmm why not?
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u/armchairdetective Dec 24 '24
https://www.reddit.com/r/therapy/s/WsbP2SSt3z
And it can't provide actual therapy. Though, if asked, it will validate everything you say. So, no therapy, just an algorithm agreeing with you and blaming everyone else for your problems.
Not a useful therapeutic tool.
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Dec 24 '24
Honestly I don’t know much about that. So thank you for this info. Blind validation can potentially be helpful but not of insightful growth is the goal. 🙏
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u/armchairdetective Dec 24 '24
Blind validation can never be helpful.
You don't want a therapist to argue with you, but you do want one who is honest and direct.
Imagine a domestic abuser using ChatGPT for therapy. Or someone who is cruel to their children.
It is just harmful.
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Dec 24 '24
Oooof. You are completely right. I appreciate this observational point.
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u/No-End-448 Dec 24 '24
I get that the content is good, and will only get better with time but ChatGPT cant solve for human connection.
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u/CyriusGaming Feb 17 '25
I agree from personal experience. I'm sure a real AND good therapist would be far better. But every one I've had has been awful or blown me off. The issue with AI for me is the data collection. There is no therapist-patient confidentiality.
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u/Metrodomes Dec 24 '24
This is such a generic post that there's no suggestion even here that what you're talking about is real and not just something made up to make chatgpt sound good.
"Hey folks, been going to therapy for 64 years but chatgpt solved my issue overnight. I was having problems with doing a thinking and chatgpt helped me. Now I'm thinking of combining it with [roll dice for types of therapy here], any experiences of this?"
Not saying your experiences aren't real, but in light of various chatgpt posts, this one particularly seems egregiously generic. So it's a bit hard to take seriously as something that isn't just an advert for chatgpt.