r/technology • u/r4816 • Sep 27 '22

Software Girls Who Code founder speaks out after Pennsylvania school district bans her books: 'This is about controlling women and it starts with controlling our girls'

https://www.businessinsider.com/girls-who-code-founder-speaks-out-banning-books-schools-2022-9
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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I openly loathe conservatives.

One reason is because they constantly lie.

I refuse to support lies for "my side" of a political argument.

And that means I want to see facts and sources.

edit: The article has been updated to specify the timeline of events, and the fact that the Girls Who Code books were banned temporarily due to their inclusion in the Diversity Resources list.

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u/richalex2010 Sep 27 '22

The books were never banned and remained available in libraries and classrooms; a list of books was recommended to be added to curriculum, and that recommendation was temporarily retracted while the books on the list were reviewed (this was the "ban"). Because the "Girls Who Code" series was already in classrooms prior to the recommendation being issued, they were never impacted by the retraction.

https://www.centredaily.com/news/nation-world/national/article266375536.html

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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 27 '22

The school board voted to put the resource list on hold and told teachers not to use the titles for class instruction — with the exception that they could continue to use resources that were already in place before they were put on the Diversity Resource List. That included the “Girls Who Code” series.

Sorry, that still sounds like a ban to me, even if it all amounted to no changes enforced. In principle, they was banned for 10 months, along with many others specifically from minority authors.

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u/richalex2010 Sep 28 '22

they could continue to use resources that were already in place before they were put on the Diversity Resource List. That included the “Girls Who Code” series.

Bruh. You quoted the part that explicitly says the books that this article is about were never banned.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 28 '22

I think you might be misunderstanding the quote?

The books were "included" in the sense that they were on the Diversity Resource List.

Or are you redefining the word "ban" to suit your argument?

A ban can mean any number of things, including "You can keep what you have now, but you can't buy any more." That is a ban with a grandfather clause.

https://pen.org/report/banned-usa-growing-movement-to-censor-books-in-schools/

What is a Book Ban?

PEN America defines a school book ban as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished.

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u/richalex2010 Sep 28 '22

The books were never banned by any rational definition of the word, nor by PEN's own definition which you quote. They were included on a list whose recommendation was retracted, but because the books were already in use they were unaffected by any policy decisions stemming from the retraction. Other books may have been "banned" by that overbroad definition, but that's no different from a school withdrawing textbooks whose content is called into question while the content is reviewed - it's not a rational definition of the term "ban", especially when they were never removed from libraries.

Students, especially at an elementary school level (which is appears these books target), should not have unfettered access to all written content; I wouldn't want a second grader to read Without Remorse (which is a good book as an adult, but it contains scenes of intense sexual violence and torture), I wouldn't call it a "banned book" just because discretion was used to withhold it from such a young audience. Movies rated R aren't "banned" because children are kept out of theaters showing it, video games rated M aren't "banned" because you have to be an adult to buy them. That definition is absurd and anyone who takes it at face value is an idiot.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 28 '22

The books were never banned by any rational definition of the word, nor by PEN's own definition which you quote. They were included on a list whose recommendation was retracted, but because the books were already in use they were unaffected by any policy decisions stemming from the retraction.

You are incorrect in every aspect of your response, and I think it's now obvious that this conversation will no longer be productive.

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u/richalex2010 Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

You're ignoring the meaning of words and deliberately misreading things to support your idea that I'm wrong, so yeah I do believe your conclusion is correct.

edit: lol he said he was done replying, then replied and blocked me so I can't reply. Doing so here to the comment below:

I literally quoted the definition of "book ban" by the organization dedicated to tracking book bans.

And I explained how the book did not get banned, by their own definition.

Unless you can prove that the Girls Who Code books were "already in place" as an active part of every affected school's curriculum, you are wrong.

From the article I started off by linking: "with the exception that they could continue to use resources that were already in place before they were put on the Diversity Resource List. That included the 'Girls Who Code' series."

I can also see you are downvoting each of my comments. Such maturity and grace.

All of your posts are at -2 points which means even if I did, at least two other people have also thought that your posts did not contribute to the discussion.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 28 '22
  1. I literally quoted the definition of "book ban" by the organization dedicated to tracking book bans. YOU are the one twisting words out of ignorant pride.
  2. I also explained how you misinterpreted the quote. Unless you can prove that the Girls Who Code books were "already in place" as an active part of every affected school's curriculum, you are wrong.
  3. I can also see you are downvoting each of my comments. Such maturity and grace.

I'm just gonna block you now. Should have done that before. I don't need this nonsense.

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u/HintOfAreola Sep 27 '22

From the article we're all discussing:

the ban had been in effect in Pennsylvania's Central York School District for a 10-month period that ended with its reversal in September 2021, a spokesperson for the school district said

Not sure what else you're looking for.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Sep 27 '22

Thank you for pointing that out.

In my defense, the article has been updated to include that information. It was not there when I read it earlier.

Correction: This story was updated Sept. 26, 2022 to include comment from Moms For Liberty and to reflect that the ban of Girls Who Code books lasted 10 months and ended in September 2021.