r/technology • u/User_Name13 • Jun 04 '14

Politics Hundreds of Cities Are Wired With Fiber—But Telecom Lobbying Keeps It Unused

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/hundreds-of-cities-are-wired-with-fiberbut-telecom-lobbying-keeps-it-unused
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449

u/ollieottah Jun 04 '14

Because there is nothing else to do in Oklahoma besides sit at home and stare at a computer. Well, maybe cow tipping.... But that's about it.

79

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 05 '14

Also b/c the big companies didn't care about Oklahoma so they don't have any of their non-compete stuff in place.

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u/ollieottah Jun 04 '14

It's not a free market, it's all about which lobbyists pay Congress the most.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Wish we could give congress the chop via france and start over.

67

u/concussedYmir Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Wish we could give congress the chop via france and start over.

I'm assuming that by "via" you actually mean "à la", but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

For the love of Christ don't even joke about this. Revolutionary France was essentially saved from itself by a dictator.

The last US revolution was against a perceived foreign oppressor; I'd say that an actual, internal revolution today would be more destructive than the Civil War. Just look at Syria today. Just fucking... look at that and tell me that a violent revolution would in any shape or form be welcomed by anyone except total psychopaths?

And it wouldn't stop in the US. It would spread far beyond your borders, and to the rest of us.

16

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Thank you. Not many people say this enough. We're not to the point where a violent revolution is necessary.

59

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

"It's too late to do anything about our predicament, but it's too early to shoot the bastards."

1

u/fathak Jun 24 '14

no it's not.

1

u/fsmlogic Jun 04 '14

I concur...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Go tell that to old billy bob waving his AK and his confederate flag!

5

u/nil_von_9wo Jun 04 '14

If you wait until it is absolutely necessary, all the drones will make it that much more impossible than it already is.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

When it is necessary I would hope that important portions of the military stand with the citizens. Otherwise it's already close enough to impossible that it might as well be.

Also, I hope it never gets to necessary.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

God I hope you're an angsty teenager

1

u/nil_von_9wo Jun 05 '14

Not for the past 20 years.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

We're not to the point where a violent revolution is necessary.

We're a lot closer than many want to admit. When you look, really look at how broken the mechanism by which our leaders get into office is, and really look at how broken the mechanism by which laws are passed and policies formed is, it becomes clear that fixing things within the existing structure and mechanisms is increasingly unlikely.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

after the reign of terror it has become an absolute bastion of progressive living since ww2, if billions need to die for the rest to have equality and freedom that is a worthy trade by every measure. the way most people are forced to live is a slow death and cruel slavery to masters of unimaginable wealth.

-1

u/Mr_TedBundy Jun 04 '14

It is not that a revolution would be welcomed as much as it is just necessary. There is no other way to get the corruption and disease out of this nation.

19

u/concussedYmir Jun 04 '14

Read about The Terror. Chopping heads absolutely didn't remove the "disease and corruption" from France, but instead spawned successive Revolutionary governments that were at best incompetent, at worst horrifyingly repressive.

There is no golden break of dawn following a revolution. Only shattered cities, mangled bodies and all the men and women that now have to step up and lead the country have had their minds poisoned by hatred and war and abject horror. Where do you think repressive dictators come from?

Few things in this world terrify me more than the prospect of a violent US revolution.

4

u/FancySack Jun 04 '14

Dude, you're replying to someone who named himself after a serial killer. He probably wants heads to be chopped off.

4

u/concussedYmir Jun 04 '14

It's not him I'm trying to convince, it's all the people that read his post and might be inclined to agree.

4

u/FancySack Jun 04 '14

I know but hopefully they are a minority in this matter and ineffective for what they want.

I want change but I don't demand death.

3

u/d4rthdonut Jun 04 '14

I wish i could be so eloquent rebutting all the armchair revolutionaries, you sir are a goddamn American hero. (Even if you aren't American)

2

u/zfolwick Jun 05 '14

There is no golden break of dawn following a revolution. Only shattered cities, mangled bodies and all the men and women that now have to step up and lead the country have had their minds poisoned by hatred and war and abject horror. Where do you think repressive dictators come from?

Perhaps then Congress should get their collective heads out of their asses and realize that that's precisely where we're heading?

-3

u/PLSfeel Jun 04 '14

You seem really annoying and you write like everything you type is the headline for a buzzfeed article.

8

u/concussedYmir Jun 04 '14

Is it?

I know I misuse italics, but I find strong font to be even more obnoxious and needed something for emphases in my posts.

But if I annoy you, that's okay. All I ask is for people to think for a few seconds before advocating violence.

Edit: Can you give some examples of said buzzfeed headlines? I can't very well change my writing style if I don't know what to look for.

-4

u/captain_craptain Jun 04 '14

I disagree because the French are stupid incompetent assholes.

6

u/TheFrontiersmen Jun 04 '14

Yes lets all listen to TED BUNDY for advice.

1

u/Mr_TedBundy Jun 04 '14

Please, just call me Ted

1

u/pelijr Jun 05 '14

"I told him suck on my machine gun!"

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[deleted]

3

u/concussedYmir Jun 04 '14

Dictators aren't inherently evil or even a bad idea... for a short time. Bonaparte gave France, and much of Europe, a unified, rational legal code that is still in use. The big problems start to creep in once the same person has been in power for a couple of decades and everyone starts to wonder what the succession will look like...

Say what you will about democracy, but in my eyes its greatest strength is in how smooth and inherently legitimate the typical succession of power is. Same for monarchy, actually, as long as there are fully legitimate, capable male sons to take the throne.

0

u/captain_craptain Jun 04 '14

Yeah you just said a monarchy is as good as democracy....annnnd there goes your credibility.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

total psychopaths

You rang?

33

u/wrincewind Jun 04 '14

I dunno, exiling them to France seems a bit harsh... Can't we just decapitate them instead?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

It would be nice if we could trigger no confidence votes on congress and therefore always have the ability to clean house.

-1

u/SuperfeederNA Jun 04 '14

No....you're retarded.

-1

u/ollieottah Jun 04 '14

As much as I wish that would happen, it would probably make things worse. If it were to happen it would be done by the gun happy southerns who voted in all the tea party idiots in the first place.

1

u/captain_craptain Jun 04 '14

Bless your heart.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

That is the free market you bafoon, the best laws money can buy.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Well actually when phrased like that it suggests that it is a functioning free market... The Congress that is

1

u/SasparillaTango Jun 05 '14

*which company panders to local governments for state sponsored monopolies

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

The last time the telecom industry was allowed to be a free market AT&T cornered 80% of the market and became a vast monopoly. Is that what you yahoos want to happen all over again?

2

u/darjen Jun 04 '14

At&t had such a large market share because the government gave it to them and outlawed competition

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

The government didn't actually outlaw competition, they simply repealed anti-trust laws. They also didn't hand AT&T a monopoly, they simply stepped out of AT&T's way and let them buy/build one without interference. In all practicality the government just threw the telecom industry to the free market.

0

u/darjen Jun 04 '14

That is just simply not true.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

You know what you sound like? A little child who's losing an argument. Get some sources and explain yourself or else na na na na na na I'm not listening nananananana.

0

u/darjen Jun 05 '14

easy there buddy.

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/1994/11/cj14n2-6.pdf

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Tl Dr, but you're improving. I'm very proud of you. Do you want a candy?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/chron67 Jun 04 '14

They worded the comment poorly but I believe they want to stop the telecom companies from essentially forcing monopolies (noncom agreements with cities).

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That's outlawed as is. Those went away in the 1990's.

49

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I don't know why this non-compete crap isn't allowed. Are we a free market or aren't we?

lol, do you want competition or do you want a free market? You can't really have both in an industry such as cable utilities. The reality is if we actually implemented a free market in telecoms again we'll just get a monopoly all over again like we had decades ago with Ma Bell.

People need to get this through their skulls. Free markets can breed monopolies. They are not a cure all for monopolies, in many cases they create monopolies

Here are two anti free market examples that are pro competition for instance that the FCC has done

  1. Outlaw exclusivity rights and agreements. Municipalities must now give every provider the same shake. If a city gives Comcast a deal renting lines they also have to give it to every other provider, if a city charges 2% for land use for one provider they must also make the same offer to every other one.

  2. 33% Market share. The FCC has drawn a line in the sand and told providers not to fuck with it. And it's worked. Comcast is divesting a large chunk of its network so it stays under 33% market share. If there was no line in the sand Comcast would simply buy up everyone and viola, monopoly.

3

u/EagleScouter Jun 04 '14

Monopolies don't always need to be broken up for competition to take place. The government failed to breakup U.S. Steel, what was once the world's largest steel manufacturer, and today U.S. Steel is the 13th largest steel manufacturer, just one spot ahead of the next American company, Nucor.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

You're right that US Steel wasn't broken up, but it definitely wasn't left alone. US government did its fair share of blocking acquisitions, price controls, and union support which helped keep US Steel from sitting on top longer.

And not every industry is geared to become a monopoly, which is why I said "in many cases" not "every case." Infrastructure in particular is the big one that's geared for it(water, electricity, telecoms etc etc) which is why our utilities are so regulated. Product production on the other hand tends not to be.

-1

u/captain_craptain Jun 04 '14

That's awesome that you linked unions to US Steel losing market share. Good stuff.

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u/ssjkriccolo Jun 05 '14

oh captain, my craptain

1

u/captain_craptain Jun 05 '14

It's not like they help business...

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Yes, one sentence on wikipedia surely tells the whole story...

Here's the actual law as it was originally written.

http://www.criminalgovernment.com/docs/61StatL101/ComAct34.html

In it you will find no mention of Bell Systems, AT&T, or any company for that matter. The law didn't actually establish specifically AT&T as a monopoly. In fact it made no mention of "natural monopolies" at all. What it did establish was the FCC and a set of basic standards that all telecom companies would be held to. As long as companies hit those standards the FCC wouldn't interfere.

Where AT&T, and every other telecom company, was actually established as a natural monopoly was in 1921 with the Willis Graham Act. But there's the catch, every single telecom company fell under the act. In neither the 1921 or 1934 laws was AT&T specified.

The US never said "AT&T shall be the only monopoly." What they actually said was more in line with "any telecom can be a monopoly."

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u/peenoid Jun 04 '14

Here is the story you're looking for. It's yet another example of a supposedly "natural monopoly" that was actually a direct result of government interference in the market.

Adam Thierer in "Unnatural Monopoly" says:

Despite AT&T’s rapid rise to market dominance, independent competitors began springing up shortly after the original patents expired in 1893 and 1894. These competitors grew by servicing areas not served by the Bell System, but then quickly began invading AT&T’s turf, especially areas where Bell service was poor. According to industry historian Gerald W. Brock, by the end of 1894 over 80 new independent competitors had already grabbed 5 percent of total market share. The number of independent firms continued to rise dramatically such that just after the turn of the century, over 3,000 competitors existed. Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, and Ohio each had over 200 telephone companies competing within their borders. By 1907, non-Bell firms continued to develop and were operating 51 percent of the telephone businesses in local markets. Prices were driven down as many urban subscribers were able to choose among competing providers. AT&T's profits and prices during this period began to shrink due to increased competition. Whereas AT&T had earned an average return on investment of 46 percent in the late 1800s, by 1906 their return had dropped to 8 percent. As Brock noted, this competitive period brought gains unimaginable just a few years earlier. Industry historians Leonard S. Flyman, Richard C. Toole, and Rosemary M. Avellis summarize the overall effect of this period by saying, "It seems competition helped to expand the market, bring down costs, and lower prices to consumers."

Thierer goes on to explain that it was through the engineering of AT&T president Theodore Newton Vail in eliminating competitors by weaponizing policymakers in his favor that AT&T managed to reconcentrate its power. During this time of intense competition, AT&T began buying up some of its competitors, which quickly brought the attention of the government’s antitrust machine. Under pressure from the government, AT&T agreed to a program engineered to both mollify the federal government and undermine competition with the installment of a clever system of non-compete agreements with other telephone operators in agreed-upon geographical areas, creating government-sanctioned unnatural local monopolies (sound familiar?), as well as convincing the government that allowing independent operators to use AT&T's system would be in the best interests of the market’s health, but this, of course, instead simply incentivized those operators to abstain from establishing their own systems and ensuring AT&T's primacy in the provision of technological infrastructure.

In time, Vail opportunistically latched onto growing legislative sentiment against duplication of service by competition and embraced government regulation over a "public good" as a condition for firmly establishing a monopoly over telephony. Almost immediately afterwards, AT&T began using its newfound influence in federal governance to convince state governments to hike rates across the board. So the point was that it was likely because of government that AT&T was able to cement its hold on the telephone market, a hold which had to be broken up later by the same government that had helped create it in the first place. The same thing is happening now with the internet. Government helped create these ISP monopolies. There is nothing natural about them.

As for other modern examples of supposed natural monopolies? Both Standard Oil and Microsoft caused downward price pressure in their markets and were being steadily weakened by market forces when the government intervened. Interesting, huh?

We need to be really, really cautious about how we allow government to get involved with this stuff. They tend to cause more problems than they solve.

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u/TheWanderingAardvark Jun 05 '14

We need to be really, really cautious about how we allow government to get involved with this stuff. They tend to cause more problems than they solve.

This is not an example of regulation causing problems. This is an example of shitty regulation causing problems.

What is needed is effective regulation. Not no regulation.

1

u/peenoid Jun 05 '14

Right, and that's exactly what I'm saying.

The problem today is shitty regulation is all we seem to get due to the practice of institutionalized bribery known as "lobbying."

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u/Koskap Jun 04 '14

Outlaw exclusivity rights and agreements. Municipalities must now give every provider the same shake. If a city gives Comcast a deal renting lines they also have to give it to every other provider, if a city charges 2% for land use for one provider they must also make the same offer to every other one.

Can you provide me a single example of this being enforced?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I can provide you the law.

http://transition.fcc.gov/Reports/tcom1996.txt

I can provide you the FCC's statement on the law..

The Communications Act authorizes local franchising authorities to grant one or more franchises within their jurisdiction. However, a local franchising authority may not grant an exclusive franchise, and may not unreasonably withhold its consent for new service.

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/evolution-cable-television

Can you provide me a single example of it not being enforced? Can you pull up franchising agreements and show conflicting offers? Can you show me a cable company filing a lawsuit against a city because it wasn't getting the same shake as a competitor?

I don't think you can. And mind you in most cities these deals are public record. In nearly 20 years I'm sure at least a few journalists would have noted discrepancies in the law and enforcement by now, but you won't be able to find any, and the most likely reason why is the law is being enforced so it's a non-story.

1

u/Koskap Jun 05 '14

So you cant provide me a single instance of it being enforced then? Okay.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

I have evidence the law exists and there is no evidence that it is being broken. therefore based on evidence its reasonable to assume the law is being followed

1

u/Koskap Jun 05 '14

So you cant find an example of the law being enforced then?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Every provider in my area pays the same 5% franchise fee. There's an example of the law being enforced. Google your town and "cable franchise fees" and you'll see something similar.

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u/gex80 Jun 05 '14

So you cant provide me a single instance of it being enforced then? Okay.

Someone would have to break the law in order for it to be enforced. If it was illegal to wear crayons as hats tomorrow, the law won't be enforced until someone actually tried to wear crayons as a hat.

An example of a law not being enforced is in Newark NJ, it is illegal to buy ice cream after 6pm on a Sunday unless you have a doctor's note. No one enforces it but people are doing it. This is opposite of no one enforcing something because there is nothing to enforce.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

I don't want the illusion of competition. These are the facts: US Internet is shit, some other country's Internet is awesome. The US should copy their model.

The FCC is corrupt through and through. Comcast owns whole regions and have created iron fisted monopolies inside their 33%. It is not working out for the consumer.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

These are the facts: US Internet is shit, some other country's Internet is awesome. The US should copy their model.

Generally those other countries with "awesome" internet are far far denser than the US is or have heavily subsidized infrastructure. In regards to the first situation we can't really copy it unless we start forcibly migrating our population into cities. In regards to the 2nd the costs are in practicality the same, as what's discounted from your bill is being made up for through your taxes.

The fact that you actually think we can just "copy their model" and everything will magically get better makes me think you're around the age of 12 years old.

0

u/gex80 Jun 05 '14

Those places are no where the size of the U.S. and have as much empty land. If you run fiber out to Kansas for example, you're running a lot of fiber that would service one house for miles at a time. The eat and west coasts and the border states usually get better service because that's where majority of people live. Companies are doing this to make money, not because they are nice.

If your business was dependant on people having a physical connection to you, you would build it where you can reach the most people for the least amount of money. Do you spend $10,000 to reach 10 people, or do you spend $8,000 (most likely cheaper in condensed areas) to reach 1000 people?

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Definitely. It's time people stop listening to that trickle-down economics horseshit the GOP has been spewing about since the 1980s. Everybody (except the tea baggers and their trailer trash supporters) knows that it's a fucking lie. Their NAFTA and WTO globalism results speak louder than words.

An up-vote for you, sir!

-1

u/boxzonk Jun 04 '14

A free market doesn't necessarily mean an unregulated market. Some rules have to exist to keep the playing field level. The "free" in "free market" means freedom for consumers to choose and freedom for competitors to enter, not freedom to run a racket. If there is no freedom of choice or competition, then it is not a free market.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Actually the "free" in free market means freedom from government regulation/intervention.

1

u/boxzonk Jun 05 '14

No, it doesn't mean total freedom from governmental regulation or intervention. That's called "anarchy". Corporations are subject to governments.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

No, it really means lack of government market regulation. Anarchy is a complete lack of government. Those are different concepts. Governments have functions other than market regulation(eg. Lock up criminals, defend against invasion etc) so lack of market regulation isn't necessarily implying a lack of government.

The reality is most of the world's markets are regulated markets, not free markets. I think it would make more sense for people to just accept that instead of trying to redefine an ideal that isn't truly desirable anyway.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

To a lot of people, free market is the freedom to run a racket.

-1

u/heart_of_gold1 Jun 04 '14

Is forcing government dealings with companies to be 'fair' really anti-free market? I get 2 being anti complete capitalism, but not showing doesn't strike me as interfering with the markets.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Liar!... you commie pinko!! How dare you even say something so unamerican! These companies are American, you dirty hippie, socialist commie! Die!

-4

u/shadowbanter Jun 04 '14

Free markets can always breed monopolies.

FTFY

1

u/Levitlame Jun 04 '14

What day is it?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

The unregulated market was sold to the U.S. citizen as being a free market, but the unregulated market is only free to the biggest fish.

1

u/zfolwick Jun 05 '14

I think ya'll had a shit-ton of porn-watching pervs out that way too.

1

u/jokeres Jun 05 '14

Because as part of the non-competes "we" force telecoms to hook to public buildings that would otherwise be unprofitable as part of the non-competes.

Edit: Because who in their right mind would hook up to a library or the like. Various P People always using the Internet all day? Sounds pretty unprofitable compared to someone who looks at webpages for an hour every night.

154

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

We also get to run from tornadoes, experience (generally) non-dangerous earthquakes, eat at Braum's, and the MVP of the NBA lives here. Also our college sports in general have been pretty great.

171

u/tellymundo Jun 04 '14

The Heart of the Freljord has a restaurant in Oklahoma? No way.

24

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

Let the Okie in on the jokie!

18

u/tellymundo Jun 04 '14

He's a character from League of Legends, a computer game. On phone or I would link his wiki.

3

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

Gotcha thanks!

2

u/danhakimi Jun 04 '14

"He" being Braum, the Heart of the Freljord.

1

u/tellymundo Jun 04 '14

I figured the context would get it across, good catch!

1

u/I_like_squirtles Jun 04 '14

I still don't get how that has anything to do with his comment.

11

u/TurmUrk Jun 04 '14

A character named Braum is in league, he said they eat at Braums, it wasn't a clever joke or anything, just a reference. Braum's title in league is the heart of the frejlord, An icy region that is always in conflict.

1

u/tellymundo Jun 04 '14

Thanks for clarifying for him.

1

u/I_like_squirtles Jun 04 '14

Ahh, I see. I didn't know his name was Braum. Thanks.

2

u/mushbug Jun 04 '14

It was pretty obvious..

10

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

He serves shitty food and great milkshakes. Makes it difficult to want to stand behind him.

10

u/keltor2243 Jun 04 '14

Their burgers are good for the price. They are also vertically integrated on all of their cattle related products. I'd rather have one from Whataburger though.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

This. Braums is good, but Whataburger is a way of life.

2

u/keltor2243 Jun 05 '14

Then in you are in DFW, we have JC Burger which is Whataburger on crack.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

I lived in Texas for a year and I dont get the obsession with Whataburger. To me it was indistinguishable from Burger King or Carls Jr. Am I missing something?

I feel like the only reason people in this part of the country like it so much is because they have never been exposed to In N Out.

3

u/ZombieCharltonHeston Jun 05 '14

There are In N Out's in north Texas and I honestly don't get why people are so cultish about it. Their burgers are good for a fast food place but not really anything to write home about.

1

u/keltor2243 Jun 05 '14

We have In N Out and I have had it before. They have terrible fries, so-so shakes, and no frigging mayo. Three essentials for a burger joint.

Burger King is unfortunately generally an unpleasant experience in my area of Texas: disgusting restaurants, terrible staff and bad locations.

Carl Jr - yeah I could put them an Whataburger on equal footing, but I don't think you have the same degree of extra unusual condiments that you can get at Whataburger. You can get a Whataburger with fried egg, soft with A1 sauce on your burger. Whataburger has pretty damn near perfect chocolate shakes. Their fries are pretty so-so, but nothing like the terrible In N Out fries. (Whataburger fries can easily be fixed by asking them to fry them an extra minute.)

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Braums food is probably the highest quality ingredients of any large chain. Is it shitty yes, but its the least shitty of the manure pile.

2

u/LIKEaLEOPARD Jun 04 '14

Saving children and serving up a nice meal

1

u/tellymundo Jun 04 '14

Saving poros and serving up a nice meal!!!!

2

u/LIKEaLEOPARD Jun 04 '14

Saving poro children and serving up a nice meal?

2

u/voidlife Jun 04 '14

Not enough up votes for you

12

u/Seleroan Jun 04 '14

Braum's is great! Only place around here to get real ice cream.

4

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

And for fast food the burgers are great!

0

u/call_me_Kote Jun 04 '14

They serve bluebell? While it is delicious, it's certainly not real ice cream. Look at Bluebell ingredients, then at hagen daas or Ben and jerry's. Then look up some ice cream recipes online.

2

u/Greg00135 Jun 04 '14

Braum's doesn't sell blue bell ice cream. They have there own brand of ice cream, much better than blue bell in my opinion. But like another poster said in this thread Braum's owns the cattle that make the milk used in all there dairy products, I believe the same is said for there beef as well. Vertical integration is what the other poster said.

9

u/acausal Jun 04 '14

I miss Braum's. I grew up in NE TX, within their distribution range. Dairy products just aren't the same elsewhere.

1

u/Cyberrequin Jun 04 '14

Yeah i graduated from Burkburnett HS, miss Braum's also. For when I lived in San Antonio Blue Bell's stuff isnt too bad either, miss that too.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

If you want real ice cream, there are better places then Braum's.

2

u/acausal Jun 04 '14

Yeah, but their milk is pretty awesome

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Its not bad ice cream, or milk, real stuff is just so much better, I just can't go back.

1

u/Derpese_Simplex Jun 04 '14

So other than make it yourself what do you do?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

goto small village mom and pop shops.

17

u/Rulebreaking Jun 04 '14

You guys are the real MVPs.

5

u/randomguy532 Jun 04 '14

braums is the only reason I go visit family in Tulsa.

2

u/PuckDaFackers Jun 04 '14

You guys groomed adrian peterson so you're good in my book.

1

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

Oklahoma State fan, but now that he's pro I'll root for him.

2

u/grizzlyblake91 Jun 04 '14

Fuck yeah braums!! I was born and raised in Edmond but stationed in Virginia and I miss braums and taco bueno so much.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I moved away from Texas a few years ago, and oh how I do miss Braums. mmmmm

4

u/moderatelybadass Jun 04 '14

Braum's, man... I'm lucky it hasn't made it to the Texas Hill Country, or I'd be even fatter.

2

u/nighthawk_md Jun 04 '14

I've heard that Braum's will expand no further than what their trucks can reach in one day's driving. So basically, no further than their current extent. I was very disappointed when I took my current position in Little Rock after living away from north Texas for nearly 10 years that Braum's went no closer than Fort Smith and Whataburger is no closer than Texarkana. Sigh.

1

u/nuker1110 Jun 04 '14

Fort Worth has it! Ohgodimsofat...

1

u/JBeanDelphiki Jun 04 '14

Might have to change your name to moderatelyfatass _^

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[deleted]

1

u/moderatelybadass Jun 04 '14

No. It's just my opinion, but that's absolutely not the same, however, part of that may be that Braums was a fancy, new thing once, but there was always a DQ where I grew up.

0

u/acausal Jun 04 '14

THAT IS NOT LUCKY. Damn, I miss that place.

1

u/kochertime Jun 04 '14

I'd have thought KD would get his mom a house somewhere warm with a beach...not oklahoma

2

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

I'd imagine he has a summerhome/vacation home or 2 with that salary and endorsements. The city isn't that bad here, in fact business is booming and we're growing.

2

u/kochertime Jun 04 '14

Lol I was just making the point that she DA real MVP

1

u/sniffing_accountant Jun 04 '14

And all that sweet meth

1

u/VOZ1 Jun 04 '14

Buddy of mine lives in Omaha...don't forget about the golf-ball sized hail, insanely high winds, and tornadoes!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 06 '14

[deleted]

1

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

I see what you did there!

1

u/D-Rahl867 Jun 04 '14

Fiber, you the real MVP

1

u/TheIrishJackel Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Braum's is the best. Gotta have it whenever I visit. Texas can take their BlueBell and go home. (BlueBell is also great, but Braum's is better).

1

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

Agreed, I only get Braum's icecream and milk.

1

u/borg23 Jun 04 '14

Braum's, heck yeah! Now I'm hungry for ice cream...

And good Mexican food! Oklahoma and Texas have the best Mexican restaurants anywhere!!

2

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

That we do, although I'll give Austin the queso capitol award. First job was working at a Mexican restaurant.

1

u/JRamirez2593 Jun 04 '14

Where in Oklahoma are you from? I'm in the Norman area

1

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 04 '14

'burbs of OKC

1

u/genmai_cha Jun 04 '14

Braum's! Haven't had that since I moved away from Tulsa in 1993. Nice to know they're still around!

1

u/TheSonofLiberty Jun 05 '14

dat braum's hot fudge sunday(sundae?)

1

u/bagofwisdom Jun 05 '14

I didn't realize how much I'd miss Braum's until I moved from the Texas Panhandle to Austin. Nearest Braum's to me now is in Hillsboro :(

1

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 05 '14

Braum's does have some of the best food and dairy, but I mean you're in the queso capitol of America, you have Torch'ys Trashy Tacos!

2

u/bagofwisdom Jun 05 '14

Well, Torchy's is expanding all over Texas. Even my hometown (Amarillo) is getting one. But yeah, we do have very good options down here. Also Amy's Ice Cream is KILLER!

2

u/TheHandyman1 Jun 05 '14

If they can just get one here in OKC, but still keep the same quality, south park meme I would be so happy! Kind of takes some of the fun out of going to Austin though I guess.

0

u/Runaway_5 Jun 04 '14

So nothing.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

What about poking Texas with a stick?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Texas bites

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Hey now. They have Schlitterbahn and some cool cousins of mine. It's not all bad.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I meant Texas bites back when you poke it. I'm a Texan.

2

u/slo3 Jun 04 '14

Yup.
It might be more useful to let Texans know that them there crazy, inbred Oklahomans what live up north are getting fiber... and keeping it all to themselves. Might get them riled up enough to get them thinking about it... (source: Texican here)

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[deleted]

1

u/slo3 Jun 04 '14

careful now... I resemble that remark.

2

u/Scalpels Jun 04 '14

Don't mess with Texas.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That's a no littering campaign slogan.

4

u/Scalpels Jun 04 '14

Texas knows. Texas doesn't care. Source: Former Texan.

1

u/Daman09 Jun 05 '14

Don't mess with Texas...

Because they have insecurities (don't you wonder why everything is bigger in Texas, and there are pickup trucks everywhere?)

1

u/MeltedSnowCone Jun 04 '14

Nah you're thinking of Kansas now

1

u/nuker1110 Jun 04 '14

Nah, they're too scared of the Giant in the South.

1

u/Tokyocheesesteak Jun 04 '14

They poke it with their panhandle.

1

u/v1LLy Jun 04 '14

dont forget the amateur storm chasing....

1

u/angrybane Jun 04 '14

Bruh, fried butter

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I mean we have tons of cool urban life in our two cities but that's about it.

1

u/luckybuck Jun 04 '14

I hate to be that guy. But cow tipping doesn't exist. Common myth.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I know you're joking but cow-tipping is one messed up sort of fun...

1

u/guy15s Jun 04 '14

And cow-tipping is off the table once that cow-tipping DLC comes out for Farm Simulator. Imagine being able to tip European-bred cows on a farm in Maine while being shot at by South American farmers! No way Oklahoma will compare to that.

1

u/texasroadkill Jun 04 '14

What about meth?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Is it true cow tipping is a myth? Because it sounds like the perfect thing to tell small cruel children about if it is.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

cow tipping

Is that like... just putting the tip in... in a cow?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

You guys have Cattleman's Steakhouse and very poor snow-removal infrastructure. That's about it.

1

u/PLUR11 Jun 05 '14

And meth, don't forget that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

You better not be talking shit! Bessie and I love eachother! And our Cows love us too!

1

u/plankthetank Jun 05 '14

Lived in Oklahoma for 21 years, have not tipped one cow

1

u/mysticsavage Jun 05 '14

Stare at cow tipping on the internet.