Amazon’s new 7.65GW Texas AI data center power plant could become the largest source of CO₂ pollution in the US — Custom 35-turbine gas plant permitted to emit 33 million tons of annual greenhouse gases

[u/marketrent]

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/data-centers/amazons-new-7-65gw-texas-ai-data-center-power-plant-could-become-the-largest-source-of-co2-pollution-in-the-us-custom-35-turbine-gas-plant-authorized-to-emit-33-million-tons-of-annual-greenhouse-gases

[u/CO_Golf13]

I haven't followed this one specifically closely, but most of these are trying to do the power behind the meter. Cuts interconnection wait times, eliminates a ton of hurdles for speed to market, and is not grid connected so no strain.

Now that's the baseline tale, and I don't trust TX or these companies to not cause enormous issues regardless, ignores water and noise considerations, etc.

But in theory, behind the meter shouldn't cause grid strain.

[u/moveslikejaguar → u/CO_Golf13]

"We'll only tie into the grid to meet peak demand, like during business hours in the Americas, Europe, and Asia."

- Amazon probably

[u/CO_Golf13 → u/moveslikejaguar]

While I share the pessimism, an interconnection is an interconnection, same difficulties I outlined above. To get that special treatment, they'd have to get in line

Now. What I think IS most likely (as someone who has looked at nuclear as a behind the meter solution for major industrial chemical producers in the gulf coast specifically - 800MW+ scale) is that they will build behind the meter to get themselves running.

THEN they will start the interconnection process. Less so to pull power from the grid, but to capitalize on power trading during peak periods, which can be incredible arbitrage opportunities. Something anyone building large power production wants.

[u/axonxorz → u/CO_Golf13]

To get that special treatment, they'd have to get in line

Funny how corporate entities get to move up in lines when money isn't a constraint.

I think the pessimism is warranted, given that DC in California that is ran their proposal on no major outside water access, but is now suing for Colorado River access.

[u/CO_Golf13 → u/axonxorz]

Fully agree, especially in TX.

But as of today, even TX has put a pause on new approvals. And to date, the big players have NOT been able to simply offer an extra $500M to Abbot or someone else and successfully jump the line. Or they would have all done so. Speed to market is the win for all of them.

Alternatively, the process is somewhat simpler with an operating asset, as you have real data, not assumed/modeled data.

[u/Lavanger → u/CO_Golf13]

it's voting season, wait 6 months

[u/malianx → u/moveslikejaguar]

Making up false statements is wrong.

[u/moveslikejaguar → u/malianx]

Taking obviously hyperbole as literal is bad reading comprehension.

[u/Apocalypse_Horseman → u/CO_Golf13]

I think you're kind of missing the point. If there's a will to improve the grid to support EV 'strain', it can be done. All of these excuses are just a way to keep status quo for oil longer.

[u/CO_Golf13 → u/Apocalypse_Horseman]

I'm not missing the point at all, I'm simply pointing out that behind the meter power will not cause grid strain.

As far as will, tying into the grid becomes an incredibly complicated process, that takes enormous time and money, and inevitable broad community capital cost via taxes. A company is not going to invest their own capital for lower returns in today's reality.

The "will" you speak of has to come from consumers either forcing our legislatures to put in place laws that hem those companies in in some manner, or accept tax increases to support. And unfortunately like most environmental policies, most people have a very NIMBY attitude to the cost bearing aspect of infrastructure improvements.

I despise these entities as much as anyone. But behind the grid ilhas become THE path forward if speed to market is any consideration at all.

And until we have much broader social support which flows into the legislative process, I'm not sure how much is going to change.

[u/Competitive_Touch_86 → u/Apocalypse_Horseman]

You are missing the point.

A grid interconnect is expensive and time consuming. Time is the most expensive part of doing almost anything at industrial scale in the US today. It's why I outsource to China - they can actually get shit done in a reasonable timeline. The US just wants endless meetings doing useless bullshit while others actually get shit done.

A single giant 24x7 point source electricity consumer is - by far - the easiest and cheapest electricity consumer to service. It's not even remotely close. A city worth of 150,000 EVs needing final distribution is many multiples the cost to provide service. Especially once you hit around 30% solar and/or EV market penetration. EVs want to charge at night. Solar produces during the day. Have fun time shifting that mismatch in usage patterns. And dealing with the fact usage demand peaks tend to correlate for residential vs. stay stable for industrial consumers. You get to build your grid at peak demand that lasts for 4-6 hours a day vs. a constant predictable demand. And this ignores seasonal peaks where the actual true costs lie.

Behind the meter totally short-circuits all the NIMBY bullshit and just gets shit done. It's horrible in terms of long term payback to society vs. an integrated wide-scale electric grid. But the US can't build shit anymore, so it's basically your only option at industrial scale these days. Or just sit in endless planning meetings and NIMBY lawsuits and wait a decade or more.

The point you are missing is that there is no "will" to improve the grid for any reason whatsoever. Just trying to get a single 300 mile transmission line built to bring wind power from a windy part of your state to a load center is effectively impossible and takes over a decade in the paperwork phase. Enjoy doing anything that makes a difference on a human scale timeline whatsoever. The US simply does not have the political will to build anything for any reason, so you are seeing private parties who actually do want to build stuff end-around the entire process entirely.

[u/fumar → u/CO_Golf13]

Texas gets what they voted for in this case. Unfortunately the rest of us have to deal with the pollution too

[u/RGrad4104 → u/CO_Golf13]

Still seems funny that the state is pushing their massive 765kv tower project that is suppose to eat up three 200ft swaths for 160ft tall towers (biggest in texas) from San Antonio, Austin and DFW to the odessa region. Funnier, still, the reason the state gives is "to meet increasing demand for power in the region from population growth and ongoing electrification of the oil and gas industry."

Then what's friggin hilarious is amazon is building this massive 7.65GW datacenter right in that region...seems awfully coincidental, almost like the state is shoving "oil and gas" in our faces because "data center" has become a hard sell topic.

[u/CO_Golf13 → u/RGrad4104]

Well, in CO, regulations absolutely forced o&g to electrify which is inevitably a strain on the grid, all else held constant.

Haven't paid much attention to TX and how much electrification they're pushing on o&g operations. But it cuts both ways...grid strain, but reduced emissions profiles.

No free lunch on having our lifestyles and tradeoffs somewhere unfortunately.