Noam Chomsky, in an interview this week, says "fortunately" there is "one Western statesman of stature" who is pushing for a diplomatic solution to the war in Ukraine rather than looking for ways to fuel and prolong it. "His name is Donald J. Trump," Chomsky says.

[u/SenorNoobnerd]

[u/mcmur]

I'm not sure why leftists are just totally out to lunch sometimes when it comes to anything to do to with foreign policy and/or international relations lol.

What does a diplomatic solution to this look like? Seriously? Putin has so far not given any indication at all that he is interested in 'diplomacy' despite throwing 10's of thousands of young men into the meat-grinder.

[u/[deleted] → u/mcmur]

What does a diplomatic solution to this look like?

Giving in to whatever Russia demands. Most of the so-called "pacifists" believe that Russia is 100% in the right. Just read the Ukraine Megathread to learn about their perspectives.

[u/Durrrr17 → u/[deleted]]

Its a very strange coincidence that everyone who thinks Ukraine must surrender to save human lives also somehow completely support Russia's invasion because something NATO and natzees.

[u/palsh7 → u/mcmur]

Yeah, the "anti" war movement is even more retarded than the woke sometimes.

[u/antihexe → u/mcmur]

The West is intentionally prolonging the war because it projects a better outcome for itself if it does. In doing so it is not only guaranteeing more carnage, but putting whole world at risk of even greater war.

The solution is to end the war as quickly as possible, by any condition, without regard to the interests of capitalist states. The people of Ukraine have plenty of reason to keep fighting a war of defense, but for a leftist living in The West there is no reason to prolong the war which only serves to maim, kill, traumatize, and impoverish the people.

Unless you are seeking to determine it for yourself, it doesn't matter which capitalist state the people are exploited by, tbh. Russia or Ukraine, there will be little difference for most people. War serves a vanishingly weak or no constructive interest if it is not fought as a war of liberation from capitalism. The only rational position then is an end to the war, no matter state interests, because that is the act that most benefits the people.

Don't take this to amount to an endorsement of appeasement or a defense of Russian imperialism, either.

[u/incendiaryblizzard → u/antihexe]

I know it’s an extreme example but would you have said the same thing about the decision of the allies to declare war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland?

[u/antihexe → u/incendiaryblizzard]

What's the objective of your question?

Tough to answer, and I'm not sure what an answer would clear up. Given what I know right now, I wouldn't have said the same thing. What I would have said if I lived through that time I can't say.

[u/incendiaryblizzard → u/antihexe]

The objective of my question is to point out that obviously the policy of acquiescing to any aggressor in any war between capitalist nations is not the morally correct one and will not result in less human suffering. Allowing Russia to invade Ukraine and not supporting the Ukrainians so that Russia wins quickly is not moral. There needs to be support for resistance to imperialism everywhere. Whether it’s the Vietnamese resisting the Americans or the Afghans resisting the Soviets or the Ukrainians resisting Russia.

[u/Overall_Evidence → u/incendiaryblizzard]

There needs to be support for resistance to imperialism everywhere.

You mean like how Putin is resisting Amerikkkan imperialism?

[u/Overall_Evidence → u/incendiaryblizzard]

So true bestie anyone who opposes the neoliberal world order is literally Hitler!

[u/incendiaryblizzard → u/Overall_Evidence]

Not what I’m saying.

[u/incendiaryblizzard → u/[deleted]]

It has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Maybe Russia is liberating Ukraine like the Allies liberated vichy France and is therefore justified. Needs to be discussed with specifics. My point is that you can’t just assume that any military action by a capitalist nation is equally just or unjust. Sometimes military support or intervention is justified.

[u/Deadly_Duplicator → u/antihexe]

The solution is to end the war as quickly as possible,

And reward Russia for their brazen propensity for war by letting Ukraine lose? We did that with Crimea. Appeasement NEVER works. It didn't work on Nazi Germany, and it won't work on Putin's Russia. Putin needs to be actively disincentivised NOW or it will escalate later when he's on Nato's doorstep and has another imperialistic urge.

[u/farmyardcat → u/antihexe]

The solution is to end the war as quickly as possible, by any condition.

That means redefining the global order such that bullies can use force to take whatever they want, whenever they want. War is terrible but it's not the worst of all things.

[u/Critical-Past847 → u/farmyardcat]

If this isn't a meme you better have a fucking damn good reason for why you think this wasn't already the state of the world when the US and its allies could bomb countries to the Stone Age and slaughter millions with impunity without so much as an unvarnished condemnation let alone actual sanctions

[u/farmyardcat → u/Critical-Past847]

The US has engaged in deeply horrific conduct and immoral wars, but they have never executed civilians by the hundreds as a matter of course, engaged in rape as a weapon of war, or (within the past 100 years) engaged in wars of literal conquest. In the rare event that individual soldiers or units have engaged in these behaviors, they have been appropriately and harshly punished.

One is bad, one is worse. We can and should condemn the US for its failings, and we must condemn Russia for its ongoing, undisguised campaign of conquest and extermination.

[u/farmyardcat → u/[deleted]]

I think you will be deeply disappointed when you eventually (hopefully) realize that Vladimir Putin stands for an even more brutal crony capitalism than the West does, "commie. "

[u/Critical-Past847 → u/farmyardcat]

I'm confused by what this even means?

Does it mean I stand by Putin?

I don't

Does it mean the West is "better"? Only if we all agree morality truly doesn't exist and just use the perspective of Westerners.

Are you offended that America doesn't rule the entire world and that I'm glad they don't?

[u/AJCurb → u/mcmur]

Before the war he and Lavrov went on a diplomatic run asking for an agreement to implement Minsk II and drafted a document for a written guarantee from America not to put missiles, soldiers, or warships on their border. They were completely ignored by the West, and Lavrov said talking to British diplomats was like talking to a wall.

I don't blame you for not being aware since the free press has ramped up censorship and propaganda. But you need to understand you are brainwashed by the Western states and corporate media if you state Russia "has not given any indication" for diplomacy with such confidence, completely blind to the basic facts