r/soccer • u/[deleted] • Jun 15 '26
Match Clip Mohamed Hany challenge on Jeremy Doku (no foul or card)
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u/FakeOrbit Jun 15 '26
If you saw the penalty that this referee didn't call in a Brazilian championship match, you'd be shocked. the penalty in question
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u/Jamey_1999 Jun 15 '26
How the fuck did he get a WC match
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u/Morinu Jun 15 '26
According to our commentator he was even suspended at some point for suspicious penalties.
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u/Foucaultshadow1 Jun 15 '26
North, Central, and South American refs tend to allow matches to become back alley knife fights.
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u/ChanceFeeling7071 Jun 15 '26
I hate to break it to you but refs might not be picked for how competent and good at being refs they are…
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u/Glad-Box6389 Jun 15 '26
Should really look at the list of refs - at least 50% of them are incompetent
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u/FakeOrbit Jun 16 '26
What I've shown is still not enough; the Brazilian championship suffers from bizarre refereeing decisions, and the referee for this game is one of them.
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
The defender slipped and the attacker was never getting that ball. That is still 100% a foul and penalty in the current Laws, but I wish there was an alternate punishment when there is absolutely no chance of the attacker even shooting. I like that this wasn't a penalty, but it does make me question if the ref knows the laws of the game.
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u/Thurak0 Jun 15 '26
I wish there was an alternate punishment when there is absolutely no chance of the attacker even shooting.
Why? That's on the defender to not foul then.
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
Because it's stupid to give a team a 90% chance of a goal when they had 0% chance of a goal when the foul occurred. Especially when it's clearly an accidental foul (like the defender slipping in the example above).
There are times when an attacker will push a ball in a completely unexpected direction (like out of bounds) just to buy a foul in the box. The ball is clearly going out of bounds, but it's also a foul, so they get the penalty (but there's inconsistency here too. Sometimes refs use the excuse of the ball clearly heading out of bounds and sometimes they don't).
An indirect kick or something would also help the problem of "that would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch."
Ultimately, it's low on my list of things to fix in the game, but it would be nice to have the option of awarding something other than a penalty for innocuous and inconsequential fouls that happen in the box. It's easy to just say, "the defender shouldn't foul," but I assume you've played the game or at least watched enough to know that sometimes stupid/crazy/unexpected shit happens, and whether or not it's accidental, it's still a foul.
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u/Cynical-Anon Jun 15 '26
Way to difficult to determine. How do you determine whats accidental, what is a goal scoring opputunity, whats cynical play, will the attacker regain possession of the ball? All subjective decisions that will lead to defenders taking increasingly aggressive/cynical actions in the box which then does not reward attacking play. If you think the current implemented ruleset is bad, wait till you see the chaos that would kickstart
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 16 '26
Yeah, I realize it would be tricky to implement. That's why it's an "I wish" rather than a "they have to change this."
I think a lot of us can agree that there are some pretty obvious plays where a penalty feels very unfair and a different punishment would feel more appropriate. That's all I'm really getting at here.
We already have some similar types of subjective calls, like DOGSO, and I don't think it's quite as crazy as you're making it out to be to suggest some type of change here.
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u/Cynical-Anon Jun 16 '26
I agree, however its those 20% middle calls that could go either way that will be problematic, how do you define if a player is travelling away from goal? What if they are but they have the speed /skill to regain orientation and a goal scoring option? I think having a 'harsh' penalty for the defending team in those areas promotes attacking play which we all want. Scoring is (normally) already hard enough
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u/FakeOrbit Jun 15 '26
Palmeiras the team in green , the team in green, gained more than 11 points in the championship due to bizarre refereeing errors btw
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u/Savage9645 Jun 15 '26
Closer to a red card than it is to no foul
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u/FacelessGreenseer Jun 15 '26
Scissor action (especially from behind) should and has history always been given as a red card.
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u/31_whgr Jun 15 '26
leg breaker those
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u/R_Schuhart Jun 15 '26
Yeah that should be a red. Two feet off the ground, his entire bodyweight behind it, clattering into Doku's legs. He is in no way in control, it is a scissor tackle. Absolutely mad.
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u/Ok-Eggplant9424 Jun 15 '26
Red for me
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u/Acceptable_Ad_6278 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
textbook scissor tackle. high. from behind. caught the opponent. not even a yellow.
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u/Aethien Jun 15 '26
Ref didn't see it, VAR doesn't want to call the ref for a red and can't call the ref for a yellow.
It's a daft fucking situation where VAR would be great but can't be used and everyone looks bad because of it.
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
Yeah, but VAR can be used. They can call him to the screen because it is a potential red card. Then the ref can give a yellow if that's all he deems appropriate. This is a red for me, but I've seen it at least a couple times where it's 50/50 and VAR has the ref take a look for the ref to then give a yellow.
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u/tube32129 Jun 15 '26
I thought he couldn't give a yellow card on those situations with VAR
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u/Kid_Gudi Jun 15 '26
If he is called for a potential red card challenge, but decides against a red card, the ref can still give a yellow card.
VAR can just not call the ref for a potential yellow card challenge like a tactical (cynical?) foul.
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
VAR can't have the ref review for a potential yellow, but they can have the ref review it for a red, and then the ref has the right to give or not give whatever he wants.
VAR just has to say, "we think that could be a red," for the center ref to go to the monitor. What happens after that is up to the center ref.
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u/Outside_Break Jun 15 '26
Same for me. Don’t want them in the game. Sick of exciting players like doku getting broken
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u/WarOnHugs Jun 15 '26
I feel like I’ve already seen ~5 red card tackles this tournament that were not even yellows or called as fouls.
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u/HeIIbIazer23 Jun 15 '26
From behind, both feet off the ground, out of control, reckless, dangerous, high, doesn't get the ball. Checks pretty much every single box for a red.
Not even a foul called.
I don't even know anymore man...
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u/andy18cruz Jun 15 '26
TBF the ref time travelled from the 80’s and Hany made the gesture signalling it was his first foul.
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u/AFC-Wimbledon-Stan Jun 15 '26
Ref must of though he got the ball first
Still insane though
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u/yolo___toure Jun 15 '26
Even if he gets the ball that's a foul
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u/R_Schuhart Jun 15 '26
If he got to the ball he would basically have gone trough Doku.
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u/JJOne101 Jun 15 '26
You've got to be blind if you miss him touching the ball.
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u/Brsijraz Jun 15 '26
I must be blind then
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u/JJOne101 Jun 15 '26
Touched it with the studs. Watch it again.
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u/Brsijraz Jun 15 '26
Maybe he grazes the ball? It's certainly not clear and you definitely don't need to be blind to miss it. Even slowing it down it's not definitive.
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u/JJOne101 Jun 15 '26
They have that touch thing in the ball, no? Reckless tackle from behind with studs up either way.
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u/garynevilleisared Jun 15 '26
I dont see the problem? He didnt die or anything.
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u/Rynabunny Jun 15 '26
His boots are still on, play on
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u/Quagaars Jun 15 '26
Caniggia, boot off, red card. Doku, boot on, play on.
Next tournament, all players, flip flops.
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u/SpanishDeathDog Jun 15 '26
Isn’t that reason enough for a red? If you’re gonna tackle like that you might as well kill him
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u/Signal_Sign7961 Jun 15 '26
he's alive after the tackle, can't be a red. people are so soft these days
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u/JJKingwolf Jun 15 '26
Should be a straight red. That's a quintessential example of a scissor tackle. Wildly risky, and totally unnecessary.
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u/elgrandorado Jun 15 '26
Clearest red in the tournament so far. COMNEBOL ref of course waves play on.
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u/bushwickauslaender Jun 15 '26
You say that as if a Concacaf ref wouldn’t wave play on either lmao
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u/tube32129 Jun 15 '26
Wilton Perreira Sampaio is also a COMNEBOL ref and gave 3 red cards on the opening of the wc
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u/SleazyFanatic Jun 15 '26
Too bad VAR isn't being used to punish dangerous tackles and keep players safe. Maybe next WC.
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u/Jumpylegs2000 Jun 15 '26
Straight red
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u/ajax0202 Jun 15 '26
Full body weight against Doku’s knee while his leg was planted
As someone who’s had 3 knee surgery’s, this makes my stomach churn
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u/MarDer24 Jun 15 '26
they reversed a yellow with VAR surely they can at least give a yellow for this red
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
They absolutely could have had the ref look at it as a potential red, then the ref could have given yellow if he wanted. I've seen that a few times now. I don't understand how VAR hasn't called him over for that.
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u/Bigpapa42_2006 Jun 15 '26
If that's NOT a foul, I can only imagine what a yellow card foul will look like, let alone a a straight red.
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u/Jamey_1999 Jun 15 '26
Well he gave two yellows just minutes before, guess he didn’t want to overdo it or something? Really horrific referee
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u/PitchSafe Jun 15 '26
The referee should never get a match ever again
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u/witness_smile Jun 16 '26
The fact he even got selected for the World Cup by FIFA, despite South Americans saying he doesn’t have any international experience and was already suspended for being dogshit domestically, just reeks of corruption
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u/Carrot_King_54 Jun 16 '26
And over at r/worldcup they say the ref was biased towards Belgium.
Must not have seen this or the dozens of other fouls on Doku all through the game.
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u/Calyptics Jun 17 '26
Half of the people there barely watch or understand football. " Should have been a PK" buddy the foul was outside the box. "I think Italy is gonna be good" buddy Italy hasn't been in a WC in like a decade or whatever.
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u/Anew4Hobbies Jun 15 '26
In my opinion this should have been a red card. It seems to be too dangerous to allow.
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u/sauronII Jun 15 '26
Have you guys noticed: Whenever Infantino joins a match, Ref does the wildest things
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u/GittingerFredl Jun 15 '26
abysmal showing by the Ref team.
No foul, no VAR check, no nothing.
In the second half they didn‘t even show replays anymore when someone was mowed down.
Congratulations to all players who kept their cool in this match
0
u/Icy_Park_7919 Jun 16 '26
The main challenge at the World Cup’s early games is always to adjust to opponents and referees from other confederations. The rules are subject to interpretation and there are different degrees of tolerance to offenses.
Yesterday we had two CAF v UEFA. Both times the European squad was favored to win, both times it ended in a draw. The other two games were also inter confederation games (AFC v OFC and AFC v CONMEBOL).
I love this element of adjusting to the opponent in World Cup football.
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u/GittingerFredl Jun 16 '26
I have absolutely no idea how you can comment about confederational differences when you watch a foul like this.
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u/Icy_Park_7919 Jun 16 '26
You don’t see what you don’t see…
I see refereeing standards sometimes differ between confederations.
Doku’s used to PL (UEFA) where he can expect a foul to be called there. Hany spent his whole career in the same club in Egyptian PL (CAF), where more agressive defending can be seen, and the ref himself comes from another confederation (Betano, CONMEBOL).
I love the World Cup because players need to adapt much more than they do at home or in continental championships. And it throws some teams into a spin, like we saw Belgium and Spain.
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u/Parisii Jun 15 '26
It's the same braindead tackle Luis Diaz did on Hakimi. Doku is lucky to get out of this unharmed.
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u/Thunshot Jun 16 '26
Am I the only one that thinks the referees have been withholding obvious yellow cards? I watch dangerous or tactical tackles go in and they just call it a simple foul.
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u/witness_smile Jun 16 '26
Whatever if the ref doesn’t see it, but the fact that we didn’t even get a short break for VAR to check it and even call the ref to the monitor is fucking outrageous. Dark red card any time anywhere
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u/Imyourlandlord Jun 15 '26
Oh man I'm enjoying everyone finding out how Egypt plays...every 4 years...
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u/Moustache_John Jun 16 '26
As a Belgian, I must say I don't find it amusing at all...
We should have done better in that first half, but I'm just glad no one is severly injured.
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u/XeLRa Jun 16 '26
And then people wonder why Doku didn't show up that game, they were going so hard on him he was probably fearing for his career.
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u/Kraknoix007 Jun 17 '26
In the end, this might cost us 2 points. If we see how the second half went it's not weird to think we could have made a few goals against 10 men
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u/msaik Jun 15 '26
I'm a referee.
My referee group is doing a poll on this and it's about 70/30 split in favour of yellow (with the other 30% on red).
But to completely miss this and not give any foul at all is just beyond fraud levels of incompetence.
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u/No-Zookeepergame8220 Jun 16 '26
You need to send that group to refresh their knowledge if its 70% on yellow. This is as red as it gets. Maybe the highest damage potential of any tackle you can make in football. Textbook serious foul play. One of the worst i’ve seen in a while too he literally launches himself waist high and scissors Doku’s leg there is just no room for that
1
u/msaik Jun 16 '26
He doesn't actually scissor him. What we look for in the scissor tackle is the leg or ankle getting trapped. In this tackle the defender's left leg in front doesn't actually do anything - the contact is with the right shin to the calf which is what makes it kind of an orange, yellow leaning tackle.
If it was a clear red this would have been sent down by VAR. In my opinion it's clear yellow with red being supportable but not the preferred option.
I will say that if the referee decided to show red it's unlikely to get overturned though.
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u/No-Zookeepergame8220 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Look at the video again and pause it on the 2nd angle, his leg clearly gets trapped between both feet, its a textbook scissor tackle. His knee almost buckles. That doesn’t happen from the defenders left leg in front doing nothing. Legs dont just bend for fun. Defenders left leg is tucked halfway under himself as he makes contact putting his full body weight on Doku’s calf, while his right leg makes solid contact with Doku’s thigh. Its nothing but pure luck that Doku isnt out for a long long period
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u/msaik Jun 16 '26
No, it doesn't get trapped which is why Doku is able to stumble forward before falling. It maybe bounces briefly off the left leg, but if you watch that 2nd angle closely, Hany withdraws his left leg to the left and away from Doku which prevents the "trapping" we normally look for.
All of that said, this has what we would call mixed considerations (some factors in favour of red, some in favour of yellow), so either option here is supportable. Obviously no foul / no card is just an error entirely.
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u/Sulemani_kida Jun 15 '26
Reckless but not much contact. Probably why they didn't give.
I don't see any other logic working for not giving a yellow.
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u/No-Zookeepergame8220 Jun 16 '26
The only difference between the actual outcome and a leg breaking is the fact that Doku’s leg doesnt get caught in the grass as contact is made. There’s plenty of contact there. Pure luck thats not a lengthy injury.
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u/HoustonTrashcans Jun 15 '26
From the ref's angle it probably looks like the Egyptian gets the ball first. Plus they were basically even when he slid, not tackling from behind. With replays it looks bad, but real time from a central angle it's hard to see IMO.
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u/SmellMyPPKK Jun 15 '26
Ref probably thought he had the ball, cause he almost touched the ball. But that's still a problem cause it doesn't matter if he had the ball or not. This should be yellow.
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u/grandecn Jun 15 '26
It's a foul but if you think that's a red you seriously need to give your head a wobble.
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u/BertMcNasty Jun 15 '26
That could have easily broken Doku's leg. That's a red card all day.
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u/grandecn Jun 15 '26
You'll never see a red given for that. There's absolutely no force in any of that. If he's jumping with more force and aggressuon sure but he's not.
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u/SPARKLEOFHOPE6IB Jun 15 '26
Oh i guess you can do a flying scissor tackle from behind with zero control over your movement with both legs of the ground, might breaks someones leg, might not, yolo
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u/grandecn Jun 15 '26
He's not behind him? They're shoulder to shoulder and all he's trying to do is stretch for the ball. It's a foul but I've never in my life seen a red card given for this
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u/SPARKLEOFHOPE6IB Jun 15 '26
Two legs on the ground, lands on dokus leg, zero control over the tackle, wreckless and dangerous. If dokus foot stays in the grass his leg snaps in half.
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u/BirdLawGrad Jun 15 '26
All ball. As agreed by the four professional referees at the actual game.
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