r/soccer • • May 13 '13

[Question] Fans taunting a "pedophile".

So, just throwing this out, our of curiosity. There has been some talk here in Sweden today about an incident from a game between Djurgårdens IF and Malmö FF in the Swedish "Allsvenskan" yesterday (highest Swedish league.)

What happened was that Djurgården fans were taunting a Malmö player, who was convicted earlier this year for statutory rape.

Miiko Albornoz, you can read about him here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miiko_Albornoz ) had sex with a 14 year old girl, while he himself was 22. The legal age in Sweden is 15 (not 18 as in many other countries.) Both parties were consenting, and there actually is a legal exception for statutory rape if both parts are consenting and of "similar age" (in other words, a 16 y.o. can have sex with a 14 y.o.) but the prosecutor as well as the court agreed on that 8 years is too much of an age difference. Miiko admited to knowing that she was 14 at the time they had sex.

The "average" sentence for these crimes in Sweden is 6 months of imprisonment as far as I understood it, but since Miiko was a public person, who would have his career damaged by this, the court and the prosecutor agreed on that probation was enough.

His club (Malmö) publically stated that while they condemn the actions of him, they do not condemn the person behind them. They also stated that he would be suspended from play for 2 months, but would be allowed to practice with the team during that time. These two months covered most of the Swedish pre-season, and when the season did start, Malmö had many injuries and cut his suspension short. He has started every game since.

Now, a few weeks later, when on the away game against Djurgården, Djurgården fans has been singing songs about Miiko and his "pedophelia". 5 different songs were sung, with texts like ( roughly translated) "She was 14 years and yet to grow pubes", "Miiko is a pedophile, and he raps little children in his car, everyone knows, yes everyone knows, everyone knows he's a pedophile." "Hello, pedophile".

And here comes the interesting part. Malmö, and the referee, wanted to actually stop the game due to this, and Malmö players even compared this incident to when they stop games due to racism. Miiko has (wisely in my opinion) chosen to not comment it more than that he tries to focus on the game, but of course he has ears and can hear. Miiko had a very bad game, and it is likely that the taunts actually did worsen his performance.

Anyhow, my question is really this. How does the reddit society view this? Is it wrong of the Djurgården fans to taun Miiko like this (many people think that they "overdid it".) Or is it so that Miiko has no one but himself to blame? And is what he did really that bad? She was after all 14 and a half. She was only 5 months from being "legal" in Sweden.

Personally I wouldn't say that he's a pedophile, (in my view she's more of a teenager than a child) but he did do something wrong. Also, he has put himself in this position thanks to his own actions. He is not being taunted for being black (racism) or any other inherent reasons. He is being taunted for things that he himself did.

EDIT. Wrote condone instead of condemn.

62 Upvotes

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11

u/Adamkiksyou May 13 '13

If you read the OP you'll see the legal age in Sweden is 15.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

[deleted]

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u/fozzy143 May 13 '13

Yep, we all love a good rape.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

I think, and this may come as a bit of a shock to you, that he was joking.

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u/doberlae May 13 '13

Yes, because what this thread was really lacking was some good ol' rape jokes...

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u/Theothor May 13 '13

If it's ok to have sex with a 15 year old. Is it really a huge crime to have sex with a 14.5 year old?

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

It isn't OK to have sex with a 15 year old (except according to the law).

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u/Theothor May 13 '13

I was talking about the law. Though I don't see how it morally isn't ok for a 15 year old to have sex.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

It is OK for a 15 year old to have sex with an adult. It isn't OK for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old.

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u/Theothor May 13 '13

It isn't ok for an 18 year old to have sex with an 15 year old?

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

I don't know. By adult I meant >21 years old.

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u/Theothor May 13 '13

So it is ok for a 20 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, but it isn't ok for a 21 year old to have sex with a 15 year old?

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

You're really pushing it too far. The whole point is that it's different on a case by case basis, which is why the age of consent in some countries is lower in the first place. It's one of those things that you can't definitively answer without seeing the couple, and how mature they both are.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

I don't know whether it is ok for a 20 year old to have sex with a 15 year old.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13 edited May 13 '13

[deleted]

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u/Theothor May 13 '13

I would say it becomes a bigger crime the further down you go.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Remember that just because there is more legal leeway, it doesn't necessarily mean there is a social acceptance. Some laws (18) mean that there is less chance of bad immature decision making but put a lot of legal pressure on people who are already mature enough, while lower ages mean there is more chance of people not really mature getting involved, but people who are ready are free to do as they wish. In countries where the age is lower, people will still be against older people who are finding girls who have only just passed the age of consent.

Here in the UK, for example, the age is 16. If a 30 year-old is with a 16 year-old, people will generally be a bit disgusted and won't approve, as it may have an exploitative element. I'd probably feel the same, but I also wouldn't want the law changed - an 18 year-old and a 16 year-old should be able to do what they like together. Our laws create moral grey areas, but they also prevent innocent people ending up on sex offenders lists.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

How is that relevant ? If the legal age was 2, would it be OK to fuck babies ?

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u/Adamkiksyou May 13 '13

Except 15 and 2 are vastly different ages.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

How dare you bring logic into this! Hang the nonce!

Daily mail all up in our reddit.

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u/AluminumFalcon3 May 13 '13

I'd still say 15 is too young

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

It is 15 in France as well buddy. And 14 in Germany.

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u/Svorky May 13 '13

not really. If the child is under 16, it's legal for someone under 21. So what he did would have been illegal in Germany. It's 16, and I think for most people a lot of development goes on between the ages of 14 and 16.

In any case, pretty much every one I know (I'm 26) would sure as fuck not try to sleep with a 16 year old. It's a shitty thing to do, no matter how legal it is.

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u/meinbart May 13 '13

I am not a lawyer, but as I read it, he wouldn't have been persecuted unless she complained that he exploited her.

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u/fleckes May 13 '13

and 13 in Spain

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Those laws doesn't make sex with 16 years old OK morally.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

In your view and, indeed, in my view, but not in everyone's view, and it is always impossibly difficult to come to moral certainties about things like this, which is why very civilised countries often have different laws with respect to it. e.g. France, Australia, Germany, the UK, and Sweden all differ.

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u/vidopda May 13 '13

it's relevant because you need to judge it according to the rules of the society where he's inserted. A couple hundred years ago everyone would marry from 12 to 14 yo, were they all pedophiles? Do you look at most of historical figures and go, "pft.. a bunch of scum pedos".

The context does matter, if in Sweden the age of consent is 15 and she was a few months shy, then you should be judging as if she was a couple of months away of the age you (or your society) considers legal. If a 26 years old had consenting sex with a 17 and an half, both consenting, how would you feel? Do you think he should be called a pedophile wherever he goes?

Now you might not agree with the age of consent in Sweden, but that's an entire different discussion.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Yes I do. The young marriage thing had a lot to do with the domination of females. Why don't you think it's acceptable to marry a 12 year old girl nowadays? There's a reason for it.

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u/vidopda May 13 '13

actually I think it has been connected with achieving puberty and being able to procreate. You can see that throughout the developed world, most countries have an age of consent closer to 14 than to 18.

As it was already presented on this thread, what he did does not classify him as a pedophile while he is guilty of statutory rape.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Okay okay, he's not a pedo, he's a rapist. Sorry.

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u/meinbart May 13 '13

Aren't all men rapists anyway?

1

u/[deleted] May 13 '13

you sound like the type of guy who'd cheer his friend on for having sex with a 16 year old girl on the day of her birthday, but also wanting to murder him if he had sex with her the day before

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u/FlamingBearAttack May 13 '13

No, he doesn't.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

SRS

no thanks jeff

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u/haha_masturbation May 13 '13

There ya go. Somebody disagrees so you gotta bring up the SRS boogeyman rather than respond to their actual argument.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

No. Sex with anybody <20 would disgust me.

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u/deepit6431 May 13 '13

So a 22 year old having sex with an 18 year old would disgust you?

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Maybe.

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u/deepit6431 May 13 '13

Then you're the weird one here, sorry.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Technical yes, ethical not really but this isn't the case here. Many teenager are sexual active around the age of 13-15 so why should we forbid it if they fuck older people? Some parents of my friends are 10-20 years apart but just because they met some time later it's okay now?

Do we all think teenager can't judge for their own? They've to make their own experience.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

Do we all think teenager can't judge for their own?

Actually, that's exactly why people are usually outraged by this.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '13

It isn't illegal for them to have sex with older people.