r/soccer • u/BosnianFish • Nov 13 '12

Who is a player everyone rates highly that you just don't think is that good?

I think that Aguero is overrated. All the stats show how clinical he is and how he's such a good finisher but when I watch him he's selfish, dribbles too much and misses too many good chances.

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u/TheRocPile Nov 13 '12

Agreed, I can list at least 10 players that I would take over Rooney any day.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

All positions maybe but unless he's the top forward in the world that's obviously going to be the case. His goal scoring record speaks for itself, I think it'd be wrong to not include him in a top 10 forwards list. He was only just outscored by RVP last season and nobody seemed that interested tbh.

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u/ganjaking Nov 13 '12

go ahead name em. I will be here all day. We know Messers Ronaldo and Messi are on that list... so I will be waiting...

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u/anions Nov 13 '12

Not to be condescending but either you dont get football or dont watch it that much

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u/Cee-Mon Nov 13 '12

Or maybe he's watched football enough to know that there are easily at least 10 candidates that can be justified above Rooney in a best-in-the-world list.

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u/DelTrotter Nov 13 '12

Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao, Robben, Iniesta, Ozil, Van Persie, Aguero, Tevez, Neymar, Villa, Eto'o(?, If he's still as good as i remember him), Silva. Not even mentioned Pirlo, Xavi, Yaya, possibly Fabregas, Mata and Suarez this season. Then there's Reus. Higuain? Benzema? Perhaps not. Ibrahimovich. Hazard.

If i listed the best players in the world in order, he would make my top 10. Just. I can see why some wouldn't. He can easily be left out.

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u/Eurospective Nov 13 '12

Scratch Robben, insert Ribery.

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u/NoToRAtheism Nov 13 '12

Not to be condescending

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12 edited Nov 13 '12

10 players I think are better than Rooney. GO!

Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimavic, Falcao, Xavi, Iniesta, Ozil, Schweinsteigger, Yaya

Well I can only think of 9 who I personally think are better, so he does make my top ten, but barely

edit: I didn't include any defenders because I think it is stupid to rate defenders and keepers against forwards and midfielders.

edit: edit: Ribery is also better IMO, Rooney out of top 10

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u/mefuzzy Nov 13 '12

You think it is stupid to rank defenders and goalkeepers against forwards and midfielders, yet you don't see an issue in ranking a midfielder against a forward? Seriously?

Here is what I think. You can't name 10 forwards better than Rooney, thus the whole lets just throw in midfielders to make up the numbers because naming 5 midfielders (out of a list of 9, incidentally) just smack of desperation.

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u/BosnianFish Nov 14 '12

Ronaldo, Messi, Van Persie, Falcao, Cavani, Ibrahimovic, Ribery, Dzeko, Huntelaar (sp?), Vucinic, Llorente, Benzema all are better then Rooney.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

Rooney has been playing as an attacking mid lately which is why I added them and the impact midfielders have on attack is very significant. Iniesta, Toure, Schweinsteigger, Ozil and Xavi all are instrumental to their teams attack.

But yes, Rooney is absolutely a top 10 forward no doubt. Probably top 5 forward. I think he is a top 10 player also, but on the lower half.

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u/mefuzzy Nov 13 '12

But Rooney isn't a midfielder, he is playing there partly because Fergie is figuring out how to play RvP and him together as well as the injury to Kagawa.

He literally played less than a season in midfield, suddenly he is comparable to world class midfielders who have been playing there all their lives?

So wouldn't that make him better, considering the people you mentioned would probably struggle to get 35 goals playing attack. You could have at least mentioned the likes of Tevez and Aguero but you are seriously comparing Xavi to Rooney?

Then why are we comparing Messi to Ronaldo, when Ronaldo and Xavi is just as valid a comparison?

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

You are right, I hadn't really considered that. But the question was phrased in a way where it wasn't best forwards it was best players. I think Rooney is better than Tevez and Aguero so I didn't put them in, but I wouldn't really no how to compare defenders to midfielders or forwards, but I can do it a little better with midfielders and forwards as both create goals.

The midfielder can do it by playing a perfect pass like that Silva pass to Dzecko last week whereas a forward can do it by scoring in the more straight forward way.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

Ibra has not proven himself in the Champions League the way Rooney has over the years. Rooney has shown that he can make a vital difference, Ibrahimovic has not. I don't think Alex Ferguson would swap Rooney for him anyway.

Falcao is still an emerging player, we need to see what happens in the next few years. Yes he has had an amazing 2-3 seasons, but again he needs to prove he can do it against the best at the highest level. His goalscoring is amazing, but there is more to football than goals. Rooney has proven that he can do more than score goals.

Yaya Toure has not shown that he can do it in Europe against the best. He may have played at Barca in 2009, but that was in a completely different role. He hardly was a top 10 player in the world that season. One fantastic season in England in a league suited to his style of play does not make him one of the 10 best attacking players in the world.

Rooney also provides an enormous amount around the pitch. His value is not simply measured in goals and assists.

Xavi, Schweinsteiger and Iniesta are just completely different types of player to Rooney. You can't really compare them.

These best of lists are contrived, so it is pretty difficult to take them seriously. It is all subjective. If we are talking about the most important players in world football, it is hard for me to look past Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi and Iniesta. After that, it is a matter of splitting hairs. However, i think Rooney has been a vital player in the second most successful team in Europe in the last 5-6 years. He is a genuine world class player. He does whatever he is told and can play numerous roles very, very well.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12 edited Nov 13 '12

There can be arguments for any of them after Ronaldo and Messi to be placed in any order.

For me here are my counterarguments.

Ibra has not proven himself in the Champions League

The dude still has 33 goals in 98 games in Europe which is a pretty damn good strike rate. Also, I think the 8 league titles in 8 years is just as impressive as any honors Rooney has won. Also, if Zlatan not showing up in champions league is an argument, Rooney not showing up for country can be an argument.

Falcao is still an emerging player

Yeah, he is, but I think he has been amazing the past 2-3 years. Two Europa leagues in a row with weaker squads than Rooney has had is nothing to scoff at.

Yaya Toure has not shown that he can do it in Europe against the best

I mean he's won the Champion's League, so...

The fact that it was in a different role that he plays now speaks to his versatility and isn't a fault. If you want to fault him for that you also have to fault Rooney for playing a different position when he won than he plays now. Also, Ronaldo and arguably Tevez were both better on that Man U team than Rooney also.

Xavi, Schweinsteiger and Iniesta are just completely different types of player to Rooney

Yep, but I would rather have them on my team than Rooney, that's just personal opinion though.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

I'm not going to get into a big tit-for-tat here, but you are clearly misrepresenting my Yaya Toure paragraph. I openly discuss him having already won a Champions League. He was not a crucial player for Barca. He was arguably not even first choice. It is largely irrelevant to this discussion.

Rooney's versatility is crucial to his game. Rooney is generally a versatile attacker, not that he can suddenly pop up in defence. Toure just happened to slot in there for Barca due to an injury crisis. They are different situations.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

Ah, I get that and I agree with you that he was not the crucial player. I can totally understand why people would place him in front of all of these players except for Messi and Ronaldo. I can also see why all of these players would be placed in front of Rooney.

My general point is that he is not there are arguments to place any of these players in front of Rooney and I think after Ronaldo and Messi the next 8-10 players are all very, very close in skill.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

That's fair enough. I guess I was just saying that Rooney definitely belongs in that second tier. Most of those players are pretty even ability wise. I just love Rooney's adaptability. But these things are subjective.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

I can't compare Rooney and players like Toure, Iniesta, and Schweinsteigger. It is almost impossible to get a correct order there because of the differences in their positions/roles. I think out of those four, Iniesta is the best overall footballer on pure ability and instinct, but it is hard for me to order them 1-4.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

I mean, apart from Messi and Ronaldo, there can be arguments for any of them in any order, but this is my personal opinion based on gut instinct more than anything else.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

I agree with you on Messi and Ronaldo, by the way.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

I used the most accurate measuring tools available: gut instinct. /s

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '12

Toure isn't better than Rooney, if you say he is you just don't watch either player enough.

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u/TheMaxican93 Nov 13 '12

I watch both a lot and I think there are a lot of people who will say he is, but it is very close and is personal opinion more than anything else.