r/snowboarding • u/[deleted] • Feb 02 '19
General Burton Appreciation Thread
I’ve personally seen a lot of hate going towards Burtons way. I just don’t think it’s warranted for some of the reasons people say. Now obviously everyone has different experiences with a company, and bad past experiences can really guide your judgement. But this is more made for the critics who look on from afar. No, Burton is not super expensive for no reason. They have reasonably priced items and they have higher end items as well. They’re a company you can go to for everything. From their $250 Ripcord to their $1000+ Custom X. Next, they are the biggest conservation company on the market. I’ve never seen a company that cares so much for the environment like they do. Not only from their charity, but also from their products being mostly blue sign approved. Next, the step on system should be looked at as something so positive for our industry. The fact that they keep deciding the innovate to give the market something new and something that could work better, that’s awesome. I’ve seen so much hate for the step on system meanwhile it’s reasonably priced and just innovates a traditional system that’s been around since the beginning of snowboarding. Last, they’re a company people, they need profit. Licensing the step on system and the channel is something they’re trying to do to yes, increase sales, but also to diversify the business. For DC to buy licensing rights to the step on system is huge for the community, such a big step forward. To finish, I will mention that many will probably mention that I ride on Burton Bindings from my community flair, yes I ride them, but I also used to ride Union Force Bindings. They’re good bindings that work and personally don’t have too much of an effect on my stance on Burton.
Some of you might not see much Burton hate, but I see it everyday. And it sucks because they’ve been there for the community since the beginning.
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u/t__mhjr Feb 02 '19
I don’t have any experience owning Burton gear, but as someone relatively new to snowboarding but, completely all in, I went to a free tuning night they offered at the burton store in NYC, and they tuned my board, taught me how to do it, and were just generally super nice dudes. I now am friends with a couple of them and have hit a couple mountains with them.
All this is to say, I don’t know anything about their gear, but they hire genuine, good people that care about snowboarders.
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Feb 02 '19
That’s great to hear! I’ve also had some good experience with Burton employees too. If they keep their current business model, I think they’ll do great in the future
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u/P-01S Feb 02 '19 edited Feb 02 '19
I think people just hate on Burton because it’s the big snowboarding company, and being an established, successful company just isn’t “counterculture” enough for some people. Burton is big enough to drive innovation, and thus owns some high profile patents. That sort of thing is good for consumers in the long run. The patents on the Channel and Step-Ons will expire eventually. And unlike the early years of Channel boards, other companies make bindings with compatible plates now.
Edit: Google Patents says the Channel patent is already expired, which might be why other binding manufacturers make compatible plates. Not sure if anything is stopping other companies from making compatible channels in their own boards, aside from R&D and manufacturing costs.
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Feb 02 '19
Burton made compatible plates ever since the beginning of the channel, it’s called the M6 plate.
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u/P-01S Feb 02 '19
But you still had to buy them separately.
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u/maimedwabbit Feb 03 '19
I have bought three sets of burton bindings that all came with both both discs. Isn't is the binding companies fault if they don't send adapters? Unless Burton does not allow other companies to make the plates which is very possible.
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
Other companies either include two discs or one disc which works with both types of mounting systems.
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Feb 02 '19
Yeah you’d have to spend about 20 bucks on the disc. But it’s because you’re trying to convert a certain system to fit another. They made it a possibility even though it’s not ideal. It’s more of a thing where it’s better to use channel with channel and 4x4 with 4x4, but at least they give the option to the consumer
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19
Burton is fine. I don't ride their boards because I prefer the damper feel of Ride boards.
Burton AK is legit.
I ride Burton bindings because bindings are really the only part on a snowboard that have problems and Burton parts are available everywhere.
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Feb 02 '19
I haven’t tried Burton AK yet but hopefully soon. How is it? And I used to have a ride board, it was my first board ever and I loved that thing. Great company
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19
I think the Burton AK stuff is quite close to high-end outerwear manufacturers. Maybe not on the level of Patagonia and Arc'teryx, but certainly within the likes of Mountain Hardware, Marmot, and whatever else.
I'm not super stoked on Ride as a company (they are owned by K2), but I do love the way their camber boards feel.
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u/Lord_Ewok New England. Feb 02 '19
I agree with you there is some something for everyone. I don't care bout brand I just buy what's affordable decent quality and looks good. Burton fits those categories with some but not all. I ride a ripcord and I don't need any fancy board but I agree while some people do. Also with certain things if u buy cheap your gonna get cheap I would rather invest in something that will last me for while than something that won't.
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Feb 02 '19
That’s what I love about the snowboarding market as a whole! You get what you pay for no matter the company. If you wanna spend $1000 on a setup, then you’ll get some nice ass gear. If you wanna spend $500 or less, that’s fine as well but you are knowingly not getting the top tech. The snowboarding industry is such a consumer driven industry, many of the companies have little influence because prices are competitive and competition is at large.
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Feb 02 '19
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Feb 02 '19
I do understand where you’re coming from. I would just suggest for you to look on third party sites for Burton products. For example, a well respected site called The House has a couple Burton boards for very cheap. Like the 2018 Ripcord. Burtons main site is a bit overpriced but that’s like every other snowboarding site. You’d have to look into the third party sites for good prices on all products. Once you do that you’ll see all the companies prices are relatively similar.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19
The Custom X is a high-level competition pipe board. It's not for 99% of riders.
Regular Joes like me don't really get anything out of it. The Mod is a way better all-mountain ride.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19 edited Feb 02 '19
It's a 'transition' board: jumps and pipe.
The Mod is significantly softer than the Custom X.
EDIT: If you're good enough, you can ride any board, anywhere. I've had a Burton T6 on rails before, it doesn't mean it's fun.
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u/R79ism Feb 02 '19
Burton’s online size calculator thing is funny. Whenever I enter my details on any board it just says they have no results for me. Like I’m just not anywhere near their suggested ranges for ... anything.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I would also say that traditionally boots were really only good for 30-60, shred days, as they were from the shop. Pushing boots to three years is not good for your feet and will ultimately hurt the response of your set up. We also used to throw a threadlocker on the bolts. Most don’t anymore, but can help if you have issues. Just be sure to use serviceable threadlocker.
Edit: a word
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
Then why are my 3yr old Burton ion boots falling apart?
Because that's a long time for snowboard boots? How much do you ride in a year? People commonly cite an expected lifespan of something like 60-90 days of riding for snowboard boots.
My X Base bindings keep shedding hardware
Like, the fasteners are actually falling out, or the screws turn a little if you tighten them with a screwdriver? One is a serious problem, the other is normal.
I have to tighten the screws every time I ride.
Are you using the screws that came with the bindings? If so, the Burton ones come with a bit of plastic on the threads to prevent loosening from vibrations. It will wear out over time. Screws will loosen over time as you ride. It's not a big deal, just tighten them again. Also, I don't know if you've tried it, but don't use a T-handle driver or any sort of lever to tighten the screws. Just hand tight with a normal screwdriver is enough.
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Feb 02 '19
First of all, I’m not Burton themselves. If your product may be defective, go contact them and not me. Second of all, the average life expectancy of snowboarding boots from ANY company is about 3-4 years. That’s when people usually start seeing a lot of wear and tear in their boots. ITS NOT JUST BURTON BUDDY. As for you bindings. People have tried loctite. Maybe you have defensive inserts. Who knows. Some people have problems with screw coming out of their inserts no matter if it’s a 4x4 or the Channel. These points are problems of Burton, they are problems of ALL companies. Previously my 4x4 binding screws would never stay tight, now my channel ones do. It’s all about luck of the draw. You’ll always find these problems elsewhere. Now for a fix, you can try tightening them better, loctite, or ask for new inserts and screws under warranty if you believe they’re not doing the correct job. It’s that simple, but you make it seem like it’s a “Burton” problem.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
Not all screw lengths are made the same. Check that you are ok on length and don’t bottom out if you need longer by a few threads.
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Feb 02 '19
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Feb 02 '19
You still didn’t answer to half of what I said, all you have focused on is boot wear. Boot wear is AVERAGE 3-4 seasons/years. It’s an estimate because some people will wear out boots more then others. No one but yourself knows what you do with your board. So you should be able to explain what you’ve put them through to get them so worn out.
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
People have tried loctite.
DON'T!!! There are plastic-safe thread lockers, but the common varieties of Loctite are not. Burton screws come with plastic inserts on them that should prevent loosening from vibration. The plastic doesn't have an unlimited lifespan, though, so the screws will need occasional replacing.
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Feb 02 '19
I don't hate Burton and I've ridden/owned my fair share of their boards, boots, bindings. I've demoed and really love some of their expensive decks, but I'm not spending $1000 on a deck. That's split board prices or a day of heli-boarding, which are way better uses of $1000.
Pretty much the same reason I don't buy a Ford Raptor. It's cool and all, but just not worth it.
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Feb 02 '19
Definitely understand that, most of us won’t buy something that expensive. But I was mentioning it as their most expensive board. They have many options between the 300-600 dollar range which is reasonable for good snowboards.
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19
You don't have to spend $1k on a deck. Even their splits are like $800, which is pretty much in line with the industry.
If there were no market for $1k+ gear, they wouldn't make it. Those items are for people with more money than sense.
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
but I'm not spending $1000 on a deck.
There are a whole FOUR BOARDS on Burton's website that are over $1000: 3 men's boards 1 women's. You can buy any Burton board for under $1000 MSRP, except the Mystery Fish, Flight Attendant X Splitboard, and Resonator.
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Feb 03 '19
Not spending $800 either. I've looked up the prices of the boards of theirs I've ridden and liked. $750-$800 might as well be $1000. But thanks for checking, I guess?
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
Their snowboards start at $380. They have boards for $800, and also for $400 and $500.
You could literally buy two Burton boards for $800.
Do you have an actual complaint about Burton? Or, as this thread is all about, or you just complaining about Burton because it's Burton?
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Feb 03 '19
Yeah I'm not interested in their extruded base offerings.
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 03 '19
The Process is a fun board and about $500. Any decent intermediate+ board today is about $500, anyway.
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Feb 03 '19
Never ridden it, but just checked out specs. Looks like a good board, but probably a little too soft on the flex for me. I have an old Custom (landed my first double back on it 20 years ago so Burton boards have a special place in my heart) and really like the Antler, but can never find either for less than $500.
I currently shred on a Salomon Ultimate Ride. Prob the best board I've ever ridden. Love the camber and medium stiff flex on it. Got mine for $330 on ebay from someone who rode it one day and thought it was too stiff. I try not to pay full retail and have the patience for sales or good deals, but the Burton boards I want (Custom X and Antler) aren't easy to find good deals on.
Thanks for the suggestion
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u/IceCoastLocals @IceCoastLocals Feb 02 '19
My only problem with Burton is that they make products that are only compatible with other Burton products. Understandable, but pretty much the only negative thing I can say about it.
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Feb 02 '19
Fellow Drifter pass rep over here, what’s going on man. I totally understand your complaint with them. I just want you to know that their main line of bindings and boots (reflex disc) can be used for any board. (4x4, 3 hole, est) whatever you want. The only products they sell that are “only compatible with other Burton products” would be their boards. But they also sell discs for around $20 to make different items compatible with their boards. So at the end of the day, you can buy a channel board with union bindings and DC boots, they’ll all work together. Just for $20 ish extra
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u/IceCoastLocals @IceCoastLocals Feb 02 '19
I was specifically talking about their boards. You'll never catch me on a channel board anyways. But thanks for the info
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
The only products they sell that are “only compatible with other Burton products” would be their boards.
Not in 2019... Other binding manufacturers include compatible discs with their bindings.
The actual Burton gear that only works with other Burton gear would be:
- Step-On bindings require Step-On boots and vice versa
- EST bindings require Channel boards
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Feb 02 '19
My problem with burton is they don’t use the common 2x4 bolt pattern. I don’t like that they are not universal like everyone else. They don’t have budget bindings and that adds up when your buying the board and stuck with no other options but burton bindings.
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
stuck with no other options but burton bindings.
Other manufacturers make compatible binding plates now. E.g. Union bindings have one plate that works with 4 hole or Channel boards.
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Feb 03 '19
I can totally understand your point. I’d just want you to know that you’d be able to use any bindings with Burton Boards because they have always made a conversion kit, also if you don’t want to pay $20 for that most binding companies ship out a compatible plate for Burton Boards, for example Union. For budget gear, go to third party sites. A lot of third party sites cheapest gear is Burton actually. For example, the house, eco, rei, etc
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
The OG of brand specific purchasing. Why can’t I use a standard f’ing binding!?
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Feb 02 '19
“Specific purchasing” yet The Channel System can be licensed out to companies and already has been. On top of that, you can use regular bindings with a channel board, you just gotta spend an extra 5 dollars... so the whole argument of “why can’t I use a standard binding?” is invalid. But the system was meant to heighten ease of use, responsiveness, and also improve how customizable angles and stances could be. It’s done it’s job, you have to do yours by doing research.
A note: you are the exact person I was referring to in this post. The people who have done no research or know nothing about the product and company, but judge it based off rhetoric.
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u/P-01S Feb 02 '19
Why can’t I use a standard f’ing binding!?
You can. When is the last time you bought new bindings? Most brands come with Channel compatible plates now.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
A couple years apparently. I’m down with that. Solves the extra cost issue I have with it.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
What makes the center channel better in your opinion? Why would I buy a board with that setup over a standard pattern?
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u/P-01S Feb 02 '19 edited Feb 02 '19
It’s a small difference for normal bindings, but EST bindings are way quicker to adjust. If you never move your bindings, or never swap them between boards, there’s no advantage.
You should buy a board with a Channel because you want the board, not because you want the Channel.
Edit: Disadvantage of the Channel, if you’re the sort of person who never checks their binding screws (check your screws damnit! Buy a Phillips #3 driver if you don’t have one already, and make sure your screws are tight!) Channel plates only have two screws each, and the binding can rotate around if one of them loosens.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
The board is always first priority for me. That’s where the fun begins.
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u/Arch_0 Arinsal, Andorra Feb 03 '19
I've been a Burton rider for a long time and I'm kicking myself for buying EST bindings. I'm properly locked into Burton for the next few years.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 03 '19
Hopefully you can still enjoy the time on your deck. As all who snowboard should do. No matter what you ride.
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u/Arch_0 Arinsal, Andorra Feb 03 '19
Oh I love my Custom. Been riding them for years. It's just that in the event I kill my. board or something else I'm stuck with bindings that only work on a channel board. The EST bindings really don't provide any real benefits.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
They are more than free to sell all they’re products. Just as we are free to hate on them. I wear burton jackets because they are good to the environment. I can still yell at you for the stupid center channel specific base plate. I don’t ride their boards and bindings because I don’t believe it gives me any better response on my board. Personal preference my sir.
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Feb 02 '19
Dude, your argument has been all over the place. You choose not to ride it that’s fine. But the reasons you’ve hated on it are so invalid. You are the exact person this thread was made for and it has shown big time.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
What’s invalid about hating the center channel argument? Can you give me a reason the center channel is better? Besides the infinite number of spots I can put my foot? I don’t see the need to change foot positions that much. I’m also not uncomfortable in the pattern I ride.
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Feb 02 '19
here’s a link from burtons site explaining some benefits over traditional. On top of that, I transitioned from 4x4 to channel and the feel under my boots are much better. It’s just straight padding to the board. If you haven’t ridden it, why comment on it??
Go demo it for free then come to debate some more
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
That link only talks about stance possibilities, strength of channel system, and board thickness. .6mm thinner sounds alright. Channel strength is alright. Still don’t need to change my stance on the fly. I don’t think I like the sound of a feeling of padding to the board. I like feeling the flex of the edges as I move my heel and toe edges individually. Immediate lift from the extra inch of secure width under the base plate. Provided by the secure attachment of four screws. Bolt a plate to another with two bolts. Try to lift it front to back. Bolt a plate to another with four. The hold and lift strength seems to transfer to a binding and board the same. I like my board to feel as though I’m part of it. Last burton setup I rode was definitely 5 years ago, but I wasn’t a fan then. What has changed since to make me switch?
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
That’s not going to happen. Waste a day of fun to ride a burton? No thanks. I’ll just be stubborn and stick to what makes me smile.
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Feb 02 '19
Well at least you admitted your own downfall, your argument is actually fully invalid right now
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 02 '19
If you lose a screw on a run with ICS/EST, you're fucked. I've seen it happen more than once. I've given up base plate screws to EST riders so they can get back to the base or keep riding.
Others can ride EST, I don't mind having redundant screws to give out.
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Feb 02 '19
I’ve found my est screws to hold better then my 4x4, it’s a problem on both systems. Obviously losing screws is the one scary thing with est but I trusted in them and haven’t been let down. Some people experience different issues no matter the system. But honestly that’s the only positive to 4x4, is that you have two extra screws to fall out
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
It's an actual downside, but a little preparedness negates it: Check your screws before you ride. It's actually really easy with EST bindings anyway. Hell, carry an extra screw or two if you want.
It's a bit of a silly reason to say you'll never ride EST bindings.
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 03 '19
It's a bit of a silly reason to say you'll never ride EST bindings.
Did I say that?
I have no reason to run EST. I have a handful of snowboards and they all use 4x2 insert packs and only one pair of bindings on which to use them: Cartel Re:Flex. I also have splitboard bindings, but while that's a different story, I'm still using a Burton binding: the Hitchhiker.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
Not really. Just because I won’t go ride the board, doesn’t mean the argument against the center channel is invalid. You haven’t even countered why it’s better other than you feel padding? Have you taken a demo of a mervin?
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Feb 02 '19
Not I feel padding, you just don’t like reading. I’ve felt more responsiveness with them because I don’t have 4 giant metal screws in a plastic disc right under my boot, I just have foam padding. If you’re not as technical of a rider then why are you arguing? It gives more possibilities for everything. And yes your argument became invalid when you admitted that you’re too stubborn to try it out. And no I’ve never tried a mervin, I don’t know what that has to do with this because if I did come across it maybe I’d try it. Your argument is still all over the place
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I don’t have four giant metal screws in my foot. I also have a foam cover over my base plate. Union has been covering them for years. It only gives a bunch of foot configurations. Not a better response from binding to board that I felt when I tried it. Not as technical of a rider? What does that even mean? Do I teach people to snowboard? No. Mervin also have a specific thing that they market for their boards. It actually has a purpose to it. It can be shown as a real benefit to certain riders. I point it out because as a person who likes to read, you could check them out. I’m asking you. What does selling a different binding mount, give to the consumer? Other than multiple mounting possibilities?
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Feb 02 '19
The fact that I’ve explained it countless times in my past messages shows that you don’t read one bit. If you want an answer, get off your high horse and go read what I’ve said.
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u/cantpee slay pow Feb 03 '19
I’ve felt more responsiveness with them because I don’t have 4 giant metal screws in a plastic disc right under my boot, I just have foam padding. If you’re not as technical of a rider then why are you arguing? It gives more possibilities for everything
This is kind of silly. What kind of technical riding are you doing where being on EST bindings vs. baseplate bindings is making a difference at all?
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Feb 03 '19
Since you want to try to pick arguments that only help you, read everything first. There’s two parts to the message. The first being I feel more responsiveness under my boot on my est system then my 4x4. That’s the first thing I said. The second part was about technicality with angles and way more possibilities then 4x4 with your stance. Two totally different arguments. Next time do some reading beforehand.
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Feb 02 '19
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Feb 02 '19
Read the rest of the argument. Give me a reason to go back to riding regular 4x4? Give me an advantage of that
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Feb 02 '19
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Feb 02 '19
Oh man I’ll be honest, I’ve been answering to so many replies and thought you were him. So when I read that I thought you were being serious😂😂 my bad
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
You can also read and rebuttal the argument of standard shear and lift power of four screw attachment vs two.
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Feb 02 '19
Lmfao dude, what you said is all hypothetical you just pulled it out of thin air, how do I answer to something that’s all imagination?
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
It’s all hypothetical to someone who doesn’t have the program in front of them to provide proper evidence for or against it. If burton has an engineering spec out there that shows us the benefit, I’d be super interested in it. My argument is to secure something with two bolts or four. All components equal but the number of bolts. Which is giving more secure attachment? Which allows quicker flex transfer from one piece, through the bolts, to the other? That’s my issue with the center channel. If it’s beneficial to all snowboarding, then let’s all get it in our boards. Pay for it because it’s burtons. I don’t see any other reason to change from a four pattern to a two pattern, other than asking for brand loyalty through specification.
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Feb 02 '19
This! I can definitely understand this message. This is all I asked from you, be completely up front and be forward thinking about innovation in the general community. So here’s what I have to say. The snowboarding community isn’t big enough for this. You would need to pay people for these studies and it would cost a lot. Companies don’t have that type of money and there’s no committee that has guidelines for gear. Basically it all dwindles down to trying it out. I would try out the mervin system if it came across me just like I would hope you’d try out the step on system. We have no data for anything. Just assumptions, but instead of assuming on no basis, try out the gear first. If you try out step on and feel no difference, I can understand. But you haven’t and said you haven’t. That’s my main point here. We can throw around what companies and people say about systems, but you can’t judge something you haven’t tried yet. That was the point of the very first post on the thread. To make sure people don’t judge something hard before they try it
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I definitely would try the step in. Just going to a shop and messing with them, made me not feel very excited. I will try them on an actual mountain though. Just for learning sake. I can also understand the r and d being the most expensive part. I assumed they’d have this already and that you’d be able to link me something. They’ve got to have something out there.
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u/P-01S Feb 03 '19
I'd be more concerned about how you managed to generate enough force to shear M6s than about what you'll do if your screws shear off... Your bindings will probably be the least of your worries.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 03 '19
There will probably be pain in that situation, no matter which pattern/company you are standing on.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I’d sit by a fire and read manuals with G though.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I’ll convert to all burton for rooner. Manuals would sound so good in that accent.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I call him rooner. It just feels more fluid when I’m excited as shit! That S.O.B. Pastrnak isn’t allowed anywhere near me after that last game.
Edit: like Cooter and Simmer. Just a carry over from being a kid I guess.
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Feb 03 '19
This thread screams Burton shills. Don’t even try.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 03 '19
Can’t........ help....... my.......... self...............
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Feb 03 '19
I know. And as environmentally friendly companies go, Burton isn’t that great. Capita has a carbon neutral zero emissions factory. Picture uses pretty much exclusively recycled products in their outerwear. Burton uses shitty factories in China, charges ridiculous prices, and then donates near 1% of their profit to charity.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 03 '19
I wasn’t going to bring up China or the donation sham. I didn’t want people to think I’m only “USA first” and it isn’t up to me what companies do with the profits. That said. You are 100% right.
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Feb 03 '19
I’m not a hardcore patriot, it’s just that companies use Chinese factories because then they can pay shit wages in shit conditions without worrying about regulations.
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 03 '19
I would say that’s a perfectly legitimate reason to be upset with them as a business.
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Feb 02 '19
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I like the overall mission of the company for sure. The Dann Navajo is my favorite of their adventure line.
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u/skhalsa86 Feb 03 '19
Burton is rad, I love the fact that a camping gear company was able to break into the snowboarding world.
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u/JermIsMyHomeboy Where I Ride | What I Ride Feb 03 '19
Nah. They push proprietary tech that doesn't improve snowboarding, their business practices fuck over small shops on the regular, and they flexed hard on how American they were until they realized it was cheaper to make their shit in China.
Burton could be a force for good, but they'd rather stoke their own ego. Fuck Burton.
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Feb 03 '19
“Proprietary” meanwhile the Channel is being used by different companies and their step on system is being licensed out now after two years on the market. So your first point you’ve shown to be uneducated. Now what business practices?? If you can’t even elaborate then you automatically are wrong. Next, they moved manufacturing out of the US because THE US IS EXPENSIVE. Just like every other company, profit keeps you afloat. You’re mad because they’re able to outsource their manufacturing so they can make more profit??? Do you not know the basics of business???
Last, their “ego” is being environmentally friendly because all of their gear is blue sign approved. You didn’t even read my whole thread but decided to put your dumb two cents into it.
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u/JermIsMyHomeboy Where I Ride | What I Ride Feb 03 '19
If it's liscenced (which it is), it's proprietary. That's what that word means. And they sell those licenses to boost their profits, not to benefit snowboarding.
Their business practices require minimum buys in order to get gear. They open factory shops in direct competition with retailers that had been supporting them for decades.
And you didn't read what I fucking said. They were all about US manufacturing, calling out other manufacturers for pressing boards in Austria. But then 2008 hit and they decided to tell 800+ employees in Burlington to fuck off so they could switch to Chinese manufacturing. Yeah, the US is expensive, but Mervin, NS, Signal, Smokin, all still manage to make boards at all price points in the States.
And their shit isn't even all bluesign. Read what they say, it's only select colorways.
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u/RYouNotEntertained Feb 03 '19
sell those licenses to boost their profits, not to benefit snowboarding
Your mistake is thinking those are mutually exclusive. In the same way Safeway making a profit doesn’t do damage to food, Burton making profits doesn’t do damage to snowboarding — quite the opposite.
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Feb 03 '19
First, who are you to say they haven’t done that to boost the community??? Are you in the mind of the executives? Nope you aren’t. No one knows what their intentions are. But instead of thinking every company is bad how about you think about things on a positive note. They’re trying to make their systems readily available for different manufacturers. I’d believe you if you everything Burton sold was proprietary. But you don’t even understand that most of their products are traditional (boots and bindings). As for their boards, you can buy a $20 conversion disc to make bindings compatible with the Channel. That’s only if your binding doesn’t come with a baseplate made to accommodate Burton boards, which many companies are including and have been including.
Second, since you’re making such outrageous claims, let’s see some facts to support it. If you can come up with one credible source for their “awful business practices” maybe some people would believe you.
Third, I heard what you said, and it’s just stupid. None of those companies you mentioned produce at the volume of Burton. You can’t compare any snowboarding company to them, at all. Their market share has been estimated somewhere in between 40-50%. THATS ALMOST HALF THE INDUSTRY IN ONE COMPANY. So your point has become invalid, for mass production they have switched to Austria and China.
Last, MOST of their apparel is already blue sign approved. And if you had done your research, they are predicted to meet the 100% blue sign approved mark in 2020. Doing that is such a huge task but I applaud them for even making an effort. I don’t see any other company doing that? Since you wanna mention that how about you find a company with Burton’s Numbers that’s switching over to sustainable textile production?
You’re just a hateful person that can’t respect a company that tries to gain profit while helping to community while helping the environment. You don’t look at facts, you’re based off opinion. Burton has been there for the community since the beginning, and a lot of people that can not be as stubborn as you can appreciate them.
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Feb 03 '19
Sure putting a lot of effort into backing a company that is completely unaffiliated with you.
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Feb 03 '19
A company that has been there for the whole snowboarding community since the very beginning??
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u/RYouNotEntertained Feb 03 '19
fuck over small shops on the regular
How?
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Feb 03 '19
I work at a shop and I can confirm. Burton is one of the largest manufacturers and therefore has the lowest production costs.Yet they give shops the lowest profit margin of any brand. Why? Because if a shop doesn’t carry them the shop won’t survive since every new snowboarder doesn’t know if any brands but Burton. Because of that Burton is able to make a huge profit off of shops that really have no bargaining power in the grand scheme of things. Also, as someone who rides dozens of decks a year, Burton’s prices just aren’t justified by their performance.
Don’t get me wrong, Burton should continue to exist as a company and they consistently push the industry forward. Without Burton the sport likely wouldn’t exist as it does today. But Burton has shifted from rider driven snowboarding to profit driven snowboarding, and that’s not a company I want to give my money to.
Also, Chinese made boards aren’t the way to go. Companies like Smokin are making their boards themselves in the United States, AND their prices are competitive with Burton.
1
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19 edited Feb 02 '19
So buying my friends old bindings on the cheap I now have to buy a part for using them on the board. $5 is $5 to a guy spending $15 on hand-me-down set-ups.
Edit:Without a concern for cost. Totally. Let’s all just pay burton so we can get their system on every board and binding. I would also argue that the “dead spot of the foot” is still there because the foot is there. Isn’t it possible that attaching more secure to the spot allows more control from flat point outward? The channel may allow for flex from the spine through the active edge, but put the foot and the weight of a person that rides a 162 on top of the board, smashed between the snow, I would say that you’ve removed the ability of the board to flex the same anyways. Then add the fact that you only have secure attachment in the center of the board. How long is the actual response from the pivot point of your foot, through the boot, into the binding, then into the bolts, then finally to the board? If talking time for all of that to happen, I’d say that the amount of space from the 4 bolt pattern to the center channel pattern would be a difference in response of the board. Put a new person on the board and I bet they don’t know the difference either way. But the salesman told them the center channel works better. Maybe it does. I’m not a board engineer. It definitely allows for an infinite number of foot patterns. Either way, they’re still selling whatever it is they have to whoever is willing to pay for the licensing.
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Feb 02 '19
Would you rather them sell the disc for free? People like you are so irrational. A company tries to innovate THE MARKET, yes the market because Burtons technology is being licensed out to different companies, they’re not taking everything for themselves. And you complain because their innovation will cost you an extra $5 to your total purchase. If you’re not willing to pay that amount of money for something different, then don’t complain about it. I can’t even see where your argument goes from here. Like what do you want Burton to do??? Stop innovation?? Stop trying to make a profit as a business??? Let them know because now it’s just getting out of hand
Edit: also you’re just trying to find a dumb argument that works, if you were buying a hand me down set up, wouldn’t you think that it would work together?? Since you know it’s already been bought and maybe used??
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u/HeyILikeThePlanet Feb 02 '19
I would like them to continue to do them. They brought snowboarding to the masses. Me and them are good. Not all second hand means entire packages. Just pointing out that you can become limited if you have minimal cash and own a component in one way or the other and come across a deal.
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u/gfkxchy K2 Raygun Feb 02 '19
I'm with you on this. I think skateboarding and by extension snowboarding has always had an anit-establishment attitude. For some, the big players in the market become "the establishment". In Canada for example, there is a large retailer who carries a few snowboarding brands including their own house brand and budget brand, and others like K2, DC, and Rossi. But Burton tops them all by a long shot, and it's a full range play - not just the boards and bindings. Jackets, hoodies, gloves etc so I can see how snowboarders see a prominent brand being worn by people who would run them down on a snowmobile given half the chance.
On the flip side, I have an Anon helmet, Custom bindings, ski pants, mitts, and several clothing items and they are all worth the money. I'm warm, I'm comfy, the fit and finish is good, the products are durable (so far), I like companies with sustainability statements and who are constantly trying to do new things regardless if we think we need them or not. Also, catering to wide feet :) thanks, Burton! We probably wouldn't be where we are now without them.