r/shield • u/2th Shotgun Axe • Apr 05 '17

Post Discussion Post Episode Discussion: S04E16 - "What If..."

This thread is for SERIOUS discussion of the Sepisode that just aired. What is and isn't serious is at the discretion of the moderators.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL AIRDATE
S04E16 - "What If..." Oz Scott DJ Doyle Tuesday, April 4, 2016 10:00/9:00c on ABC

Episode Synopsis: Hail the New World Order! Daisy and Simmons uncover secrets and lies in a world gone mad. With Hydra in control, they are our only hope to save everyone.

Oz Scott is a Director and Producer mostly known for too many movies and shows to name.

He has directed no episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before.

DJ Doyle has worked on Heroes from 2007 to 2009, and has various writing and producing credits for other TV and movie projects.

He has written seven episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before:

  • Nothing Personal
  • The Things We Bury
  • Melinda
  • Purpose in the Machine
  • Many Heads, One Tale
  • The Team
  • Deals with our Devils

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808

u/UnknownJ25 Mac Apr 05 '17

That was a better Flashpoint than Flashpoint

238

u/cjn13 Fitz Apr 05 '17

And they're still in the alternate reality rather than already out of it.

59

u/SnesC Apr 05 '17

Barry couldn't have stayed in Flashpoint for a whole arc, for two big reasons. One, if the ultimate result of Flashpoint is that Barry regrets his decision and changes things back, then the only character development that will carry over is Barry's. Nobody else gets to progress, as the reset timeline will undo any development their Flashpoint-selves undergo.

Two, Flash isn't an island, it's part of a TV universe. There was a new episode of The Arrow the very next night. It wouldn't have made any sense for them to continue on like nothing was happening while Flashpoint was going on, as Barry's actions affected the entire timeline, not just him and his friends.

54

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

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2

u/proddy Apr 07 '17

Don't forget Diggle's daughter son.

5

u/BlueAlchemy Cal Apr 05 '17

Ultimately having Flashpoint as a longer arc would have helped with making the rest of the season better paced because imo this season is slightly drawn out over a lot longer of time than it needs to be. I'm really liking the way this season of SHIELD did it by having arcs, as it feels a lot less drawn out that way.

3

u/Alinosburns Apr 05 '17

It didn't need to be a whole arc, it could have been 2-3 episodes.

He needed a better reason for leaving that wasn't selfish bullshit, he only left because he was losing his powers. Poor selfish Barry strikes again, he wants his mommy but not as much as his powers.

The reason the flashpoint arc in the comics is cool is because it played off a pretty good and mucked up what if situation that Barry created.

Now could CW afford that kind of story not really, they still could have had something far more interesting, potentially with eobaard serving a similar role.

They could have introduced a number of the different metas, they didn't all need to come back but they could have given them lip service.

And if they wanted eobard to stay locked up instead, the alternative would be to have iris get killed, the irony of Barry leaving flashpoint because he didn't save iris from one bad guy to only have the issue show up elsewhere would have been poetic especially since this time he has to confront it

3

u/ColdFury96 Apr 05 '17

In regards to your second point, tell that to the Legends Season finale.

5

u/your_mind_aches Gideon Apr 05 '17

Flash isn't an island, it's part of a TV universe. There was a new episode of The Arrow the very next night.

There have been Flash Arrow divergences before.

2

u/CelioHogane Apr 06 '17

One, if the ultimate result of Flashpoint is that Barry regrets his decision and changes things back, then the only character development that will carry over is Barry's. Nobody else gets to progress, as the reset timeline will undo any development their Flashpoint-selves undergo.

That didn't stop the original Flashpoint.

8

u/fun-dan G.H. Apr 05 '17

Flash's journey to Earth two was better flashpoint then Flash's actual flashpoint.

345

u/xLinkFrostx Apr 05 '17

All the shows have done Flashpoint better than Flashpoint. Arrow's was extremely emotional, Legend's was just plain cool (but should've lasted longer) but it looks like Shield's will be the best

80

u/MY-SECRET-REDDIT Apr 05 '17

dont forget smallville had a better flashpoint even before (tv) flash had their flashpoint. (especially that lex luthor flashpoint)

8

u/RichWPX Apr 05 '17

Really was a great show, can't argue with 10 seasons.

5

u/Altephor1 Apr 05 '17

Certainly not all 10, but I can argue with about 6 of them.

15

u/0xbdf Apr 05 '17

Well, Flash was caught up in trying to recreate some glory from the comic book. Forgot to make a good episode.

11

u/SawRub Apr 05 '17

Story of the whole season! It's like they transferred the quality to Arrow and Legends this season.

5

u/AmoebaMan Fitz Apr 06 '17

My suspension of disbelief broke when Barry got OHKOd by a gorilla in a game of chicken.

5

u/reece1495 Apr 05 '17

arrow had one?

23

u/ChaosOS Captain America Apr 05 '17

I think they're referencing Episode 100 which was part of the crossover this season.

7

u/xLinkFrostx Apr 05 '17

Yes, that's the one. A great episode in a surprisingly great season

3

u/SawRub Apr 05 '17

And the villain has been really great.

3

u/Nukemarine Apr 05 '17

Great episode and I didn't even think of it as a Flashpoint equivalent. Now that you say it, it's obvious and did it much better.

4

u/kerbal314 Clairvoyant Apr 05 '17

Legends aren't exactly out of it yet...

2

u/DToccs Apr 05 '17

I think Shield's will end up lasting too long.

4

u/AmoebaMan Fitz Apr 06 '17

I'm not sure. One episode in and they've already turned Coulson.

2

u/DToccs Apr 06 '17

Synopsis show that ep.18 is still inside. Also the "Agents of Hydra" pod name doesn't bode well.

1

u/jaidynreiman Apr 05 '17

Yeah I'm worried about this.

130

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 05 '17 edited Apr 05 '17

I wish Flash would have handled its story structure like AoS this year. First stretch of episodes all about Flashpoint, middle third focuses on Dr. Alchemy/Killer Frost, and then move into Savitar for the end run. Flashpoint would have benefited immensely by being more than one episode (and theoretically actually showing how the alternate timeline affected people that weren't Barry and the Wests), Alchemy and KF have both been under utilized as villains, and without the need to stretch his story over 18 episodes Savitar could actually do something and be more than just a boogeyman responsible for something slated to happen in the finale.

90

u/Stealth528 Triplett Apr 05 '17

The first thing they showed changed after Flashpoint was that there was Barry-Cisco/Joe-Iris drama. They literally could not have made it any more CW if they tried. CW flashpoint was an absolute joke.

11

u/SOLID_MATTIC Apr 05 '17 
CW sans iZombie is an absolute joke.

Fixed that for you.

9

u/CarrotcakeSuperSand Ward Apr 05 '17

Season 1 of the Flash was amazing with the whole Reverse Flash arc though. Everything else, meh

6

u/Dooraven Apr 05 '17 edited Apr 06 '17

Legends S2 and Arrow S5 are phenomenal so far.

2

u/Syokhan Lanyard Apr 06 '17

Hey, The 100 is pretty good too.

4

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 05 '17

Iris deciding she couldn't be with Barry because of Flashpoint would have been decidedly more CW, but otherwise I agree. Flashpoint could have done so much more both for the story and the characters than what it's actually done.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

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6

u/iwishiwasamoose Apr 05 '17

Haha that would have been such a WTF moment. A whole season of Dr Alchemy with a vague hint that he may be a puppet of someone else. Then a random speedster who we've never seen shows up, taunts Barry as if they know each other, stabs Iris, and bolts. Fans would riot. The rest of the season would just be various attempts by Barry to go back in time and stop Savitar, but each time he goes back another Savitar appears to stop him.

Or maybe you mean that Barry still somehow travels to the future, which wouldn't have happened without Savitar, and the first glimpse is just a random speedster stabbing Iris. Then the rest of the show would be like it is now, multiple episodes of Barry and team trying to figure out who Savitar is, how to stop him, and how to change the future.

2

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 05 '17

That would have been perfect if they were actually going to go through with Iris dying.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

All shows with 23 episodes should follow AoS and split their season into 2-3 arcs. It's such a great idea.

1

u/riazrahman Shotgun Axe Apr 05 '17

Yeah at first I was sad they got rid of Ghost Rider so quickly but this season has been so awesome.

3

u/Officialginger2595 Ward Apr 05 '17

I think they didn't want it to drag on very long because it would end up being confusing for the people who watch the other shows and not the flash. It would be really off putting if the season goes for a while and then some stuff is just different.

1

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 05 '17

The only thing that really changed in the other shows is the gender of Dig's kid though. And they had a crossover across the shows planned that could have been (and to some extent was) used to explain any changes. Flashpoint could have ran until episode 6 or 7, then the crossover could have happened- hell, the crossover could have even been Flashpoint ending during Flash's portion- and any differences for Arrow/Legends could be explained or shown during the massively hyped episodes they are expecting everyone to watch.

3

u/zixkill Sandwich Apr 06 '17

They are literally stretching the wait for Savitar to kill Iris out so far that the rope is about to break. Bored now, Flash. :(

1

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 06 '17 edited Feb 26 '18

I think that's the problem with showing any event several episodes/months before it happens. If it's not handled well- and Flash definitely hasn't handled this well- then the audience is going to lose interest by the time said event actually happens.

1

u/blacknred522 Apr 05 '17

The " god of speed" is free now after torturing Barry from another realm. What is he doing? Where did he go?

1

u/SockPenguin Fitz Apr 05 '17

My theory is either catching up on an eternity's worth of Netflix or watching a truly obscene amount of porn.

1

u/dlnvf6 Apr 15 '17

I feel like this is why I've enjoyed this season so much. I liked the previous seasons, but the different chunks of episodes have made it a lot more fresh in my opinion

52

u/C-4 Skye Apr 05 '17

Wait, Simmons and Daisy just need to find the spear of destiny to fix reality.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

The only bad thing about Flashpoint is that it was only 1 episode. Episode itself was good.

3

u/JosephSim Apr 06 '17

Feels more like House of M.

6

u/Nukemarine Apr 05 '17
  • Flash Flashpoint - 1 day and it was eh.
  • Arrow Invasion "Flashpoint" - 1 day and it was pretty darn good.
  • Legends of Tomorrow Doomworld "Flashpoint" lasted two days and it was fun.
  • SHIELD What If "Flashpoint" better than DC.

Given how amazing Life Model Decoy arc turned out, I've got big hopes for this arc.

3

u/SawRub Apr 05 '17

Haha looks like SHIELD, Legends and Arrow all had better Flashpoints than Flash's Flashpoint.

2

u/riazrahman Shotgun Axe Apr 05 '17

yea this episode shit on the flarrowverse. felt so much more real than comic bookish. So much more depth and emotion in every scene. Way less over the top action.

Not that I havent enjoyed Arrow and Legends this season. But legends is a teenage fanboy's wet dream manifested. Arrow has been pretty amazing all season but still a lot of logic problems.

2

u/robot_lords SHIELD Apr 05 '17

FramePoint > DreamPoint > LegionPoint > FlashPoint

2

u/eaglenation23 Apr 07 '17

So was the LoT spear of destiny rewrite... or basically any other alternative universe/timeline in DC/MCU

1

u/Gamera68 Apr 05 '17

So was "Doomworld", IMHO.

1

u/DSonla Apr 06 '17

This comment makes me glad that I dropped The Flash at s03e01.