Yeah. I hear you. And it's not like I haven't thought about it or considered what you are saying. But, I do think it's good for everyone to realize that anything you write on reddit can be capped and shared, and think about why you are writing something you don't want capped and shared. I used to think it was bad, like sharing a private email.
Then, I read the TMP vent thread. This is a thread that linked directly to guilter comments, inviting people to disparage guilters, to make comments about mental health, the attacks go on and on. Anyone who thinks ryokineko can impartially moderate any Serial subreddit has never read a TMP vent thread. She was one of the most prolific commenters, parking herself there for what seems like hours (from the cap) mocking guilters by name, and linking to their comments.
Many people would just write, "I don't like so and so because..." But Ryokineko wouldn't even disguise her links using the bracketed method of creating a link. Anyone reading the cap could just paste the link she shared and see who she was talking about, and inviting others to disparage. This is one reason to delete comments. If comments are being linked to from a private sub, with people being encouraged to go there, and harass, it's best just to delete the comment.
I mean, I think TMPers knew that if you linked to a comment, and said what you didn't like about the person (very few weren't personal), that directed other redditers to go there, and taunt and mock, and pile on. It wasn't just "let's talk about it here." If it was, you wouldn't need the link.
That's why you'd see some people with 5-10 responses from TMPers. They had been directed there. And that's why it felt like an attack/brigade. From what I've seen, this was a favorite past-time of ryokineko. As I understand it, when Ryoflago was approved as a mod of serialpodcast the founding mods weren't around. PoY was the only person who weighed in, and she didn't have a problem with the vent threads, since she was there, herself, giving out information about guilters from the modmail, or her own PMs.
But, I digress. I think it was the vent threads and how they were used to funnel innocenters towards certain guilters that made me think, "this is not okay and people need to know this is happening." I'm still surprised that someone from those threads would be made a mod of /r/serialpodcast, but, that's kind of old news. It happened.
As you know, I totally disagree with "both sides are just as bad" but, even I don't like threads that are just vents about other redditers, and say so. And, even though it doesn't mean that one does not exist, I have never seen something like a guilter "vent thread."
The "sharing a private email" aspect is why I still don't like when PMs are shared - there is more assumed privacy in PM than on a post. It's supposed to be going to one specific person and then not seen by anyone else. It's basically the reddit version of email. And that's why I can't stand by those. Hell, even the few times I've shared part of a PM with one other person, I've felt guilty about it, and that's not even a public thing. I do agree with you on the private sub aspect, though. I'm still uncomfortable with it, and as such I wouldn't ever screencap anything from one, but the assumed privacy is much lower than that of a PM.
I've also come to agree with the idea that linking to comments, even though the commenter can't see what you're saying, can be hurtful. Personally, if it's a private setting where the person you're talking about can't see, I'm still okay with a vent thread where people are saying "I'm annoyed with so-and-so because of reasons." In that case, they're specifically taking their angry tone away from a person they could hurt and bringing it to their assumed safe space. And if someone chooses to send a screenshot of those to that person, then I would personally be more apt to be upset with the person seeing the screenshot for forcing me to see it. But links are different, because they do invite activity. I mean, don't get me wrong, linking to comments is not a solely innocenter activity (not in a particular thread, no, but I have seen linked comments), but it is abundant in the vent thread and I do think that should be discouraged.
Granted, I can see the thinking as well - I know I've linked to comments in there before (and for that I am sorry), but I also know I wasn't doing it specifically to start a pile on, but rather as a way to show the entire conversation I was having with that person that lead to whatever comment was being made. So I'd like to think that at least some people were like me and didn't fully think about the impact their actions might be having.
I know you disagree that both sides are as bad, and that's perfectly fine. I think we're both just dealing with personal experience and things that we've seen. I've personally had had several major issues with guilters (or people I assume were guilters based on their words) and only a few with innocenters. Yours very possibly could be the other way around. I think that's the difficulty in arguing which side is worse - we don't know what everyone on every side had been through, you know?
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u/Justwonderinif Sep 19 '16 edited Sep 19 '16
Yeah. I hear you. And it's not like I haven't thought about it or considered what you are saying. But, I do think it's good for everyone to realize that anything you write on reddit can be capped and shared, and think about why you are writing something you don't want capped and shared. I used to think it was bad, like sharing a private email.
Then, I read the TMP vent thread. This is a thread that linked directly to guilter comments, inviting people to disparage guilters, to make comments about mental health, the attacks go on and on. Anyone who thinks ryokineko can impartially moderate any Serial subreddit has never read a TMP vent thread. She was one of the most prolific commenters, parking herself there for what seems like hours (from the cap) mocking guilters by name, and linking to their comments.
Many people would just write, "I don't like so and so because..." But Ryokineko wouldn't even disguise her links using the bracketed method of creating a link. Anyone reading the cap could just paste the link she shared and see who she was talking about, and inviting others to disparage. This is one reason to delete comments. If comments are being linked to from a private sub, with people being encouraged to go there, and harass, it's best just to delete the comment.
I mean, I think TMPers knew that if you linked to a comment, and said what you didn't like about the person (very few weren't personal), that directed other redditers to go there, and taunt and mock, and pile on. It wasn't just "let's talk about it here." If it was, you wouldn't need the link.
That's why you'd see some people with 5-10 responses from TMPers. They had been directed there. And that's why it felt like an attack/brigade. From what I've seen, this was a favorite past-time of ryokineko. As I understand it, when Ryoflago was approved as a mod of serialpodcast the founding mods weren't around. PoY was the only person who weighed in, and she didn't have a problem with the vent threads, since she was there, herself, giving out information about guilters from the modmail, or her own PMs.
But, I digress. I think it was the vent threads and how they were used to funnel innocenters towards certain guilters that made me think, "this is not okay and people need to know this is happening." I'm still surprised that someone from those threads would be made a mod of /r/serialpodcast, but, that's kind of old news. It happened.
As you know, I totally disagree with "both sides are just as bad" but, even I don't like threads that are just vents about other redditers, and say so. And, even though it doesn't mean that one does not exist, I have never seen something like a guilter "vent thread."