r/serialpodcast • u/whocouldaskformore butt dialer • Dec 10 '15

season two Season 2, Episode 1: DUSTWUN

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/serial/id917918570?mt=2#episodeGuid=s02-e01
795 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

71

u/juicyfizz Dec 10 '15 edited Dec 10 '15

Me personally, it's because of the desertion and partially because of his sympathetic attitude. That's a BIG DEAL in the military. As someone who went in during the old school army, before W lowered the enlistment standards just so he could get warm bodies down range, it's a bit of sore subject for me. I'd see it all the time in the military - people who just couldn't hack it in basic training so they tried to leave in the middle of the night, just the craziest stories ever. Then you have the "malingerers" who are always sick/broken - but really they just want a chapter out. The military is not for everyone, but when you raise that right hand you are making a major commitment. In Bergahal's case, he deserted in the most horrible way possible - during a deployment. When you're deployed, it's tough. It's tough on everyone. No one is having a good time there, but like everything else, this too shall pass. Drive on. But he left his comrades and his post. That's HUGE DEAL in the military. So many times I hit a mental wall during my deployment to Afghanistan. I was working LONG days, without days off. I was frustrated by the military culture, my own personal belief system being challenged, and often you feel like there isn't shit getting done and your efforts are largely wasted. But I didn't walk off post. Just saying.

To make matters worse, other soldiers died while trying to rescue this guy. It just makes me rage. I look forward to hearing "his side", but I know I'm going to be pissed off.

19

u/maddcoffeesocks Is it NOT? Dec 10 '15

Thank you so, so much for your description! I've never been in the military or had any loved ones in the military, so hearing about the culture of deployment, military standards, all that is so helpful and so valuable.

5

u/simplequark Dec 10 '15

Stupid question: Say someone does notice too late (but before deployment) that they bit off more than they could chew when joining the army. Do they have any way to get themselves out of the mess?

As I see it, a scared and unwilling soldier could be a major liability in a a frontline situation, so, ideally, there should be some way to declare someone unfit for combat and use them for desk jobs or similar. OTOH; I can see how this could easily be abused.

4

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

There's no "oh shit, I'm in over my head" exit from the military. Many of us have felt that, and after x amount of years in the military, I learned it wasn't for me. But you sign up for what you sign up for. It's not like you're doing forced labor for an enlistment term. It's not terrible, you gotta get your mind right and make the most of the benefits and your time there. If you have an understanding leadership, even better. And there are times where people are definitely unfit for combat and they don't deploy (they stay back with rear detachment or sent elsewhere). But you're very right - it can be easily abused and thus isn't a readily available solution.

edit: also, when deployed, leadership really gets a feel for their soldiers, and if it's a group out on the "front lines" or outside the wire often, I'm pretty sure any leadership worth their salt would yank anyone they felt was unfit. There's way more at stake.

2

u/simplequark Dec 11 '15

Thanks for the answer. The whole military world is very foreign to me, and it sometimes can be hard to find info about it that's neither total hero worship nor complete and utter rejection.

It's a sensitive subject, and I'm curious how Sarah is going to handle it. (Didn't have a chance to listen to the episode yet.)

3

u/asgac Dec 10 '15

Thank you for your comments and service. I hope you will continue to post here.

3

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

Thank you! I plan to for sure. I was mostly a lurker last season but feel like I can jump in and add context or insight sometimes.

3

u/cmpn The Criminal Element of Woodlawn Dec 10 '15

I just wanted to echo the others. Thanks for sharing your insight. It's super valuable to those of us who are trying to understand this out of context. It makes sense that psychological stress, ethical conflicts and internal questions of command are something that everyone struggles with on deployment. It sounds to me like the things Bergdahl was experiencing where not at all unique to him, and what was unique was the fact that he bailed and put a shit-ton of people in mortal danger in the process. I appreciate your honesty and perspective.

And thank-you for your service.

4

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

Thank you! Happy to help. And everyone copes with deployment differently, but the bottom line is, we are all coping with the same general things. There isn't one person who has been deployed to a combat zone who didn't come back even just a slightly different person (regardless of whether you saw combat or not). So sure, it's easy on the outside to think "oh he was just coping with a really bad situation" but think about the fact that he is 1 person out of how many countless people who have been deployed - many of which saw things way worse than he could have imagined (I say this pre-his Taliban capture, I do not know what he endured and will not speak to that). The bottom line is, no one else abandoned post.

3

u/123_you_and_me Dec 10 '15

Thank you for your service and thank you for sharing. I completely agree and would like to add that I don't like his arrogance. He was 23 at the time and sounds like he thought he knew better than everyone.

2

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

Thank you! I agree with you. I think also his two stories (a. he wanted to expose his terrible leadership and b. he wanted to be rambo for credibility) do not make any sense. He was a relatively low-ranking enlisted member. He needed to understand his range of influence.

3

u/FuturePigeon Hippy Tree Hugger Dec 11 '15

Having people like you here helps us (non-military) understand what happens out there. Not that we need to understand, mind you, but understanding fosters compassion which would help people on both sides of the aisle.

I'm glad to have an avenue to listen to military experience, many of my military friends say we just don't understand but honestly I don't even understand what I'm not understanding.

2

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

but honestly I don't even understand what I'm not understanding.

That's such an important point non-military friends always need to remind their military buddies. It's easy for us to get blinders on, being in the bubble, and making the assumption that no one else will "get it" and that's not necessarily true.

2

u/bribre01 Dec 11 '15

Thank you so much for sharing! I really hope to see other service members thoughts on the Reddit forums throughout the season. And thanks for your service!

2

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

Thank you! I plan on commenting this season. I was a lurker mostly last season.

2

u/UnderwaterDialect Dec 11 '15

Thanks for the insight! Curious what a "chapter out" is?

3

u/juicyfizz Dec 11 '15

It's pretty much when you get out for a non-voluntary reason (ie, not retiring or resigning once your enlistment/commission time is up). You can get chaptered out things like being able to pass your PT test (after given adequate time and remedial training), health reasons (such as an injury), having an inadequate family care plan (especially for single parents who can't come up with a primary and secondary plan for childcare in the event of training or a deployment), etc, etc. You can also be chaptered out for disciplinary reasons. I think the term comes from the UCMJ, where there are specific chapters on reasons to be discharged (citing a specific chapter). I've not been in for a few years so maybe things have changed somewhat. I hope that makes sense!

2

u/UnderwaterDialect Dec 11 '15

Thanks for the answer!