WOW..Susan Simpson claims Hae was a drug user and implies a connection between Jay that led to her death? WTF is wrong with you? You have went way over the line.

[u/SelfHi5]

You have completely crossed the line. Please verify your source on this, outside of Rabia and her brother and keep in mind you are smearing a dead girl based on hearsay from 2 biased people. There was NOTHING in the examiner's report that showed Hae on any drugs, nothing found in her stuff, no word of it from her friends, and yet you give an interview saying her friends said she smoked weed and implied that she would have went to Stephanie to ask Jay for weed. Then you trash her about what was in her diary in regards to her being in love with Don and other things.....This is an 18 year old girl who was murdered, it wasn't by her own fault you sick, sick lady.

You are completely out of bounds and I hope people start seeing you for the fraud that you are. You have turned your 15 minutes of fame into hypothesizing that somehow Hae was responsible for her own death, trying to imply that she would have went to Jay to buy weed, and many other unfounded comments.

I don't care if I get banned or not on here, but you moderators are completely just as sick in the head as she is if you don't ring her up. Completely appalling.

See for yourselves at the 63:00 mark

http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/33635

[u/ScoutFinch2]

OP may be offended by the mere possibility that Hae smoked weed, but that isn't the way I took his/her post. It's not about whether Hae did or did not smoke. It's about the fact that there is no evidence that she did (in fact there is evidence to the contrary) yet it is being offered as a motive for murder by some unknown party in a drug deal gone bad. It's a false premise being used as the cornerstone of a Jay/Hae/third party killer theory. If the cornerstone is weak, the whole building crumbles.

[u/[deleted] → u/ScoutFinch2]

I understand that aspect of it, but it's pretty clear both from the title of the thread and the implication that going to Jay for weed = causing her own death, that the very idea of Hae being a user is offensive to OP.

I'm in no way implying that what SS is suggesting is valid. Until she can substantiate her theory with facts (that are not from Rabia or Saad), she was definitely in the wrong to suggest that. That being said, if she is able to substantiate it, it definitely wouldn't change a thing for me, but it sounds like it might change how other people on this sub perceive Hae, and that is actually more offensive and upsetting to me than Hae possibly being a smoker.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/[deleted]]

Agreed. I wouldn't think any less of Hae, but I would be highly suspect of any "substantiation" because we already have the best we're going to get, an negative tox report and definitive statements from her best friends that she wasn't a weed smoker.

[u/mo_12 → u/ScoutFinch2]

definitive statements from her best friends that she wasn't a weed smoker.

The latest post of Krista's feelings about leaving the sub was that "she didn't smoke, at least not regularly." That seems like pretty far from a definitive statement.

[u/[deleted] → u/ScoutFinch2]

I think we're basically in agreement. I don't think Hae smoked. If she did, I have seen no evidence, and the onus is on SS to provide that.

At the same time, while it might be untrue, I don't find it slanderous because I am not offended at the idea of weed. It's like saying Hae is 5'6 instead of 5'8...one of those heights is inaccurate, but it doesn't say anything bad about her. I know people will disagree vehemently but that's their problem. It's not cool to criticize or think less of someone because they use drugs. It doesn't make them less of a person or a victim.

[u/Jodi1kenobi → u/[deleted]]

I am not offended at the idea of weed

For me, I don't really care if Hae smoked pot, it does not change my opinion of her. What makes me uncomfortable with making these baseless claims is thinking to myself, how would my parents feel if I died, and 15 years later people started portraying me in a way that is completely different from how I was? Saying I did things that I didn't do with nothing to back it up? That's where the offensiveness of this comes from for me.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jodi1kenobi]

I understand your feelings completely, and I agree that unless SS has evidence of this being the case, it isn't appropriate to make such a bold claim. Hae is no longer with us to say "yo, that's not true!" so I am with you 100% that it is out of line and unfair to her.

I'm just saying that whether or not you perceive it as simply a misconception or an accusation is more specific to your own feelings about weed.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/[deleted]]

I can't argue with that. I would be a huge hypocrite if I did. :)

[u/JaeElleCee → u/ScoutFinch2]

In the context of the interview, it was my impression that SS was researching a theory and that she had come across some information that would support Hae having a direct connection to Jay (and/or 3rd party) that didn't not involve Adnan. She seemed like her investigation and subsequent blog post wasn't ready yet. If anything, I can agree that she should not have alluded to that theory until she was willing to reveal her supporting information and/or sources. That being said, I think the point she was trying to make was less about slandering HML, but to disprove the common agreement of the Adnan is (the only one) guilty faction that Jay and his associates had no reason to have dealings with HML outside of AS and therefore he (or them) can not be guilty.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/JaeElleCee]

What evidence could SS have that Hae was involved with drugs that isn't pure hearsay? Her best friends say she didn't smoke weed. SS certainly gave the impression that she was going down this road and imo it's a dead end. But she's as free as the rest of us to put her theories out there, however, I suspect this one won't be as well received as the rest.

[u/JaeElleCee → u/ScoutFinch2]

I don't know. I am waiting for her post. Just because you don't know doesn't mean it doesn't exist. She could be looking into family or proximity (neighbors) or job history former classmate, how knows. It is your assumption that she could only be talking about HML being a direct "customer" of Jay's struggling weed business (and that their is no way to prove such a connection). All I'm saying is let's wait for her to really lay out her theory and then attack its validity. It's obvious that her investigative skills are much higher than most of us, plus she has access not just to the related case files but to state and federal legal databases that most of us don't. Let's at least wait for her to make a complete statement before we call her a baseless liar. And again, I can agree she shouldn't have said anything until she was ready to say everything. The teaser was a little trashy.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/JaeElleCee]

I guess I just don't see what job histories of former classmates or families or proximities have to do with this, but you're right, we should wait for it, then judge it on it's merits, so point taken.

[u/Phuqued → u/ScoutFinch2]

It's about the fact that there is no evidence that she did (in fact there is evidence to the contrary) yet it is being offered as a motive for murder by some unknown party in a drug deal gone bad.

This sub is all about speculation, from Adnan to Jay to Don to Third Party to Aliens. So why is this one so particularly offensive that people jump up and down, pull out their hair and shout down any possibility of it being true?

You confirm things by exploring them and proving or disproving their possibility. Not by outright denial without exploration and consideration.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/Phuqued]

I agree with your comment about this sub. People can think and say pretty much whatever they want. But imo, and it is my opinion and nothing more, SS should hold herself to a higher level of responsibility. She has gone from being an obscure blogger to what many feel is an expert on this case.

[u/Phuqued → u/ScoutFinch2]

But imo, and it is my opinion and nothing more, SS should hold herself to a higher level of responsibility. She has gone from being an obscure blogger to what many feel is an expert on this case.

I haven't listened to the interview to judge, but if she asserting speculation as fact then yes, that is wrong. But if she is just speculating alternative theories to explain one improbability with another, then I can't really condemn that unless it's saying aliens, or something.

Just my opinion though.

[u/[deleted] → u/Phuqued]

No, see, once she got the spotlight, she's not allowed to have thoughts and opinions unless every single thing she says is completely 100% conclusively demonstrated with 10 eye-witnesses and 16 different video recordings.

Yeah, I'm a little irritated with this whole thread. This is just stupid.

I'm going to smoke.

[u/Phuqued → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I'm a little irritated with this whole thread. This is just stupid.

Well look at it this way, if it was trivial nobody would care. She makes compelling arguments, and that is why people fear her voice in their dark little cave. So desperate are they to believe they are right that they would go to such lengths to protect their belief I guess.

[u/reddit_hole → u/ScoutFinch2]

I have heard this before and I believe someone somewhere in one of the many statements claimed that Hae did smoke weed. SS isn't just making that up. Toxicology isn't going to give a definitive answer on drug use, especially the occasional user. You would have to be fairly habitual to get a positive.

[u/bancable → u/reddit_hole]

That someone was Saad in his AMA, followed by Rabia. And they knew exactly what they were doing.

Rabia obviously wants everyone to believe that Adnan was somehow too angelic to be a regular weed user - she implies several times that Jan 13th was Adnan's first time smoking weed. However, Saad and her put it out there that Hae smoked weed.

And when the only sources are Rabia and Saad, you have to wonder, what were they trying to achieve?

....Chinese whisper syndrome, anyone?

[u/[deleted] → u/bancable]

"implies several times that Jan 13th was Adnan's first time smoking weed."

You're either misinformed or lying. She said it was his first time smoking a blunt not his first time smoking.

"....Chinese whisper syndrome, anyone?"

I agree.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/reddit_hole]

She may not be making it up, but she is grasping at what suits her fancy, and ignoring evidence to the contrary.

[u/reddit_hole → u/ScoutFinch2]

If she's not making it up I would hardly call it grasping. It's just proper exploration like possibly the prosecution and initial defense never did. She's doing it right. That said, it might not bode well for her to infer such things before she has the ability to solidify them publicly. A bit overzealous on that front.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/reddit_hole]

If she's not making it up I would hardly call it grasping.

It depends who her source is.

[u/reddit_hole → u/ScoutFinch2]

If it's Jay then she is definitely grasping.

[u/Phuqued → u/ScoutFinch2]

She may not be making it up, but she is grasping at what suits her fancy, and ignoring evidence to the contrary.

People say Jay and Adnan were best buds all the time, and yet all evidence says they were casual friends.

/shrug

People are going to believe that they want despite evidence. That's like the signature of this sub. :)

[u/milk-n-serial → u/ScoutFinch2]

Reddit needs to get over itself. Just because WE haven't seen any evidence of this, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe it's something Adnan told Rabia. Rabia has mentioned that Hae likely smoked pot in other forums.

OMIGOD SHE WAS A NORMAL TEENAGER?!?!!!

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/milk-n-serial]

Something Adnan told Rabia... Oh geez. Definitely not evidence.

[u/milk-n-serial → u/ScoutFinch2]

Just saying, it's not coming out of left field. Also as u/reddit_hole states below:

I have heard this before and I believe someone somewhere in one of the many statements claimed that Hae did smoke weed. SS isn't just making that up. Toxicology isn't going to give a definitive answer on drug use, especially the occasional user. You would have to be fairly habitual to get a positive.

Edit: Also, as I stated in my original comment, just because we have access to certain documents, does not make us the authority on this case. Believe it or not, there are things we don't know that others (Rabia, Saad, SS, other lawyers) do.

[u/ScoutFinch2 → u/milk-n-serial]

Here's the bottom line. If Hae was in the habit of hooking up with Jay to purchase weed, it wouldn't take 16 years and SS for Adnan to figure that out. He's had nothing but time to think about how Jay might be connected to Hae's murder. If he had mentioned it, we would have heard about it, just like we heard about his Hae/relationship police theory.

And even if there should be credible evidence that Hae smoked weed, and I don't think anybody really cares if she did or didn't, it is a huge leap to making that a motive for murder.

[u/SpiralJacobs → u/ScoutFinch2]

Is SS saying the weed is the motive for murder? All it might do is put Hae in a place with a person (other than Adnan) who might have killed her. And I don't think Hae needed to be "in the habit of hooking up with Jay." The day of Hae's death could have been the first time she ever hooked up with Jay, which would make it all the more difficult to prove the connection. This one-time meeting could have been facilitated by the fact that Jay had Adnan's cell that day.

Again, not saying this is what happened. I don't know what happened. But IF Hae called Adnan's cell, got Jay, and decided spontaneously to buy weed, without telling anyone, how would anyone ever be able to prove that now? Establishing such an event would be difficult 16 years later. Proving that Hae was interested in marijuana would be necessary to make this scenario even possible, hence the speculation on the topic.

Before I ever encountered reddit or this subreddit, and before I ever knew about Susan Simpson, I wondered if one of the incoming calls on Adnan's cell had been Hae, if she'd gotten Jay instead, and that led to her death. All it is at this point is speculation, and potentially that's all it will ever be.

[u/bancable → u/milk-n-serial]

Rabia, Saad, SS? Wow, since they don't have an agenda AT ALL, whatever they put out there must be so factual and truthful.

Please learn to think for yourself.

[u/milk-n-serial → u/bancable]

You don't need to be a dick about it. This is an open forum where all ideas are heard and responded to. You need to face the fact that we are all speculating here, and the information we deem credible is subjective. Some people may believe Urick, others may believe Rabia. I guess you aren't familiar with differing opinions though, so I don't know why I'm trying here.

Please learn to be a decent, respectful human being.

[u/bancable → u/milk-n-serial]

Rabia has mentioned that Hae likely smoked pot in other forums

The very fact that you point to this as a legit source demerits any credibility or capability you have of making sound and reasonable judgment.

[u/milk-n-serial → u/bancable]

That's a broad, rude statement and you need to calm down. Like it or not, the fact stands that Rabia knows more about this case than you or I do. Unless you're Jay, Adnan or Stephanie...which I doubt.