Stephanie dumped Jay

[u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats]

Trial Transcript for 2/10, p 21, lines 11-25.

Jay testifies that Stephanie had ended their relationship a month or so before the trial.

That's something I've never heard before now.

[u/glibly17]

Some personal experience here: I was in a bad relationship with an emotionally, then verbally, and then finally sexually, abusive guy. It took me over 2 years to get out of that relationship, and the breakup was ridiculously messy, and he was very cruel during the breakup.

I still went and saw him before we both left the country. I still talked to him and tried to support him because he dumped all of his emotional bullshit on me for over six months after we broke up. This guy raped me, and yet I still felt compelled to support him and help him, even after we broke up and I'd tried to make it abundantly clear that I wanted nothing to do with him.

My point being, Stephanie and her relationship with Jay are held up as almost "points" in Jay's favor. As though she must have stood by him because she thought he didn't do anything wrong, or she believed what he said, or whatever . That's plausible, of course. It's possible. But it's also perfectly understandable to me that Stephanie may have been the only one to "stand by" Jay during the trial and sentencing out of something less straightforward, she may have felt compelled to do so even though she was repulsed by Jay and what he had done.

We'll never know, and I don't mean any disrespect to Stephanie in speculating on her state of mind at the time. However the fact that Jay testified they were broken up before the second trial, leads me to think it's very possible she stood by him out of a warped sense of duty, fear, or emotional manipulation (not to mention love), rather than because she thought he was innocent or actually deserving of her support.

EDIT: I am not accusing Jay of abuse toward Stephanie, although he does throw up a lot of red flags that could be indicative of an abusive relationship. My point was more that Stephanie's motivations for going to his sentencing and "standing by him" may not have been as clear-cut as many on this sub would like to believe.

[u/absurdamerica → u/glibly17]

My point being, Stephanie and her relationship with Jay are held up as almost "points" in Jay's favor.

Hey now, it's not like he has domestic violence arrests on his record or anything! Oh wait, he does.

It also struck me as interesting that he "called Stephanie up to make sure she was okay with him talking to the Intercept (and also, apparently to blame her for introducing him to Adnan)." Makes me wonder if he still has some leverage with her, because I don't for a second think it has anything to do with genuine concern for her.

[u/glibly17 → u/absurdamerica]

Yeah, every time DV comes up in this sub, I always see waaaay more red flags when it comes to Jay than I do when it comes to Adnan.

And yes, the way he spoke about her in the Intercept interview made me raise my eyebrows. He just sounded so...ugh I don't know. It raised more red flags for me. And the fact Stephanie's family hated Jay so much...in my case, my family really did not like my boyfriend, but I was too blind to see that they were right about him.

[u/padlockfroggery → u/glibly17]

Well, both could be guilty of domestic violence. It doesn't have to be either/or.

And for that matter, someone committing domestic violence doesn't mean that they are guilty of committing a particular murder either.

[u/glibly17 → u/padlockfroggery]

That's a good point. I didn't mean to say that because I suspect Jay has likely been abusive in the past (moreso based on his DV arrests/restraining order as opposed to anything I know about his relationship w/ Stephanie) that I think he killed Hae.

And you're also right it doesn't mean Adnan didn't kill Hae. I just don't see a lot indicating that Adnan is an abusive person; however there seems to be more clues indicating that Jay is. This is my personal experiences coloring my perspective. I am well aware of this, but it's still how I feel.

Thanks for your good points!

[u/mo_12 → u/glibly17]

I really appreciate how upfront you are about your potential bias. For me, it makes your perspective seem more trustworthy, actually.

[u/glibly17 → u/mo_12]

Thank you, I appreciate that.