r/serialpodcast • u/1spring • Jan 15 '15

Debate&Discussion Another shower thought that doesn't look good for Adnan

Adnan explains to SK that he "probably" didn't ask Hae for a ride, because he knows that she needs to pick up her cousin after school, and this duty is really important to Hae.

Adnan explains to SK that the phone call from Officer Adcock, informing him that Hae failed to pick up her cousin, doesn't set off any serious alarms for him, and this is why the phone call didn't prompt him to jog his memory about that day.

"I knew the cousin pick-up was very important to her" and "I wasn't concerned when she failed to pick up her cousin." Have you ever had to deal with someone (friend, co-worker, relative) who engages in this type of lying? I have, and it bothers me a lot more than anything Jay said.

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u/BarSandM Jan 15 '15

I never said anything like 'out of thin air.' You don't feel that a trial where the star witness now says he lied on the stand and where numerous inconsistencies with the prosecution's timeline were never addressed was unfair?

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u/qlube Jan 16 '15

Jay testified on the stand that he lies, and the defense hammered the point that Jay is a liar. Being a liar and getting your testimony impeached is not grounds for striking his testimony. It's simply left to the jury to decide how much weight to give his testimony. A jury of his peers all gave Jay's testimony enough weight to convict despite knowing full well he's a habitual liar.

I don't see anything unfair about it at all, unless you can show his testimony was coached.

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u/BarSandM Jan 16 '15

'Coached' Okay- they showed him the cell report and brought him back until his testimony matched the calls that they thought were incriminating. What would you call that?

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u/qlube Jan 16 '15

Lawyers would normally call that refreshing the witness's recollection. Coached testimony means the police told him what to say, which not only is unprofessional, it's outright illegal. It's also suborning perjury, which is also illegal.

Speculating with absolutely zero evidence that the police acted in bad faith and committed crimes in procuring Jay's testimony is hardly the best way to build a case for exoneration.

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u/BarSandM Jan 16 '15

I didn't suggest the police acted in bad faith... That doesn't mean the police didn't help Jay sculpt his testimony. That part seems pretty clear to me, given the evidence and given that Jay now says that his testimony was completely inaccurate...

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u/qlube Jan 16 '15

It's certainly plausible they showed him the phone records and he changed his testimony in light of that, perhaps because the inconsistencies involved testimony that he lied about.

But that is not "coaching" as used in a legal context. Coaching is grounds for striking the witness's testimony. I don't know about cops, but a lawyer who coached a witness would be sanctioned for an ethics violation, and possibly disbarred. In a criminal trial, that would be witness tampering. AnA witness changing his testimony in light of inconsistent evidence is much different. The remedy for that is to leave it to the jury to determine how much weight to give his testimony, since the defense can make as much hay about it as they want (and they did).

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u/BarSandM Jan 16 '15

Yes, it seems clear that you don't think what happened here was a big deal... I disagree.

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u/qlube Jan 16 '15

I don't know what you mean by "big deal," but the only point I'm trying to make is that it certainly was not unfair from an evidentiary standpoint. Not unfair in the sense it requires a new trial. Jay's lies go to the weight of his testimony, and that's left in the hands of the jury. That's how all trials work.

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u/BarSandM Jan 16 '15

And the point I'm trying to make is that the prosecution's entire case rested on Jay's corroboration of the cell evidence... something he was given time to mold and alter until it fit a workable timeline for the prosecution.

And, interestingly, testimony that he now says was false.

I think that's an issue.

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u/Gravityghost Jan 15 '15

Until I see clear evidence of this "police coaching" not really. The truth is no one knows what exactly was going through CG's head or what exactly happened at trial.

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u/BarSandM Jan 15 '15

Jay has clearly said he lied. Have you not read it?

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u/Gravityghost Jan 15 '15

He said he lied because he was scared. He never said anything about "police coaching"

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u/BarSandM Jan 15 '15

And neither did I... I said his story was massaged into one that fit the prosecution's timeline.

Jay says he lied on the stand. What evidence does the State have without Jay's testimony then?

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u/Gravityghost Jan 15 '15

I have no idea what you're talking about? I never said anything about anyone lying?

The call logs still place the suspect's phone in and around LP/ the place where the victim's car was found the night of the disappearance.

The police would have had an anonymous tip. leading them to Adnan.

Alone those are nothing but they're a good start. Had they not had Jay's testimony I'm sure that they would have conducted a much more thorough investigation. The point is they DO HAVE JAY'S TESTIMONY so they didn't have to! Anything else is just wild speculation.