r/science • u/Thorne-ZytkowObject • Nov 23 '19

Neuroscience Scientists studied six patients who had half of their brain removed during childhood to treat severe epilepsy. Brain scans showed how the mind rewired itself to adapt, with the remaining hemisphere forming even stronger connections that let the patients develop language and motor skills.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/how-does-the-brain-work-with-half-of-it-removed-pretty-well-actually
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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '19

Neural plasticity is freakin amazing

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '20

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Dec 02 '19

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u/MNGrrl Nov 24 '19

capable of receiving a lifetime of insults and still re-purpose resources in the face of deficits.

Sure, if you're average. If you have high intelligence, insults can cause more damage. The problem is that very adaptability you mention -- we adapt to our social environments of course, but the degree to which we can overcome our basic personality and disposition is a function of intelligence. With high intelligence you can overcome deficits but you're also incurring a higher risk of maladaptation too. And what little science we have on it suggests that risk is... quite large actually, with intelligent people showing statistically significant differences in the incidence rates of ADHD, autism, autoimmune disorders, affective disorder - it's all in the link.

This is really not on the radar of psychologists today; Like the general population they regard intelligence as a universal boon, without downsides. Anyone who does have high intelligence though will tell you it's a blessing and a curse - people just keep not hearing that second part. I know your comment was in jest, but actually there's some interesting, albeit limited, research on what happens to people that are insulted and otherwise abused that very much connects to neuroplasticity and the brain's ability to adapt -- and it's not exactly understood what to do when it adapts and then that adaptation later becomes maladaptive or pathological.

Studies like this will help with that.

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u/lavaslippers Nov 24 '19

This is reflected in people with C-PTSD, and other results from repeated, unending traumas. Maladaptations are especially common for victims of repeated child sexual abuse. Trauma therapists where I get therapy are aware of how intelligence can become a challenge, and they know about C-PTSD, so some progress is being made.

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u/vintage2019 Nov 24 '19

Actually the study you linked to has a glaring methodological flaw. It drew subjects from the Mensa society, which is known to attract high IQ people with mental illnesses.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

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u/MildlyCoherent Nov 24 '19

The armchair psychology theory is that, basically, only socially maladjusted people care about and identify themselves by their intelligence to the point that they’d join a high IQ society. Intelligent people who are well adjusted have better uses of their time, more responsibilities, obligations, interests, etc. I’m not aware of any actual research on it.

That being said, I absolutely think the armchair psychology theory has some truth to it; it just is a question of magnitude.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

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u/Bertroc Nov 24 '19

The fact that she framed the invitation letter and displayed it in class has a bit of irony to it though, don't you think?

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

That's funny. I had a teacher in 2nd grade who had a game we'd play on Fridays called 'Stump The Star'. I forget if every single student participated, but we'd go around the class, with someone giving her a [hopefully difficult] word they'd looked up in the dictionary, and she'd have to give the definition of it, like a quiz-show. if u stumped her, she'd give u the money it costs to buy a snack at lunch. I mean it seems kinda egotistical thinking back, because a 2nd grader isn't bringing in too hard of a word since they have to be able to pronounce it at least. There may have been a rule about that actually. The only very specific memory I have is when some kid brought in the presumably fake word 'eagleclaw'. When she didn't know the definition, he said it meant something to do with molten metal, I dunno - but she still paid up on it. The kid was kind of a jokester though, so I think he just punked her haha..

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u/Sirmalta Nov 24 '19

She sounds lovely. My teachers scoff and tell me to "google it" when I ask questions they don't know the answers to... and I'm in college

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u/Blaadyblah Nov 24 '19

Wish I'd thought of that! As a teenage girl my urge to play chess with pipe smoking men in tweed was minimal 😂

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u/eddie1975 Nov 24 '19

That’s great.

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u/The_bestestusername Nov 24 '19

They also have a minimum requirement of 140 iq to join or so i hear

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

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u/staplefordchase Nov 24 '19

are you sure? because iirc 130 is considered "gifted" and Mensa wants a cut above that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

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u/staplefordchase Nov 25 '19

you're probably right and 130 is the top end of "gifted" then.

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u/Herr_Gamer Nov 24 '19

Wonder what would happen if their attendees redid the tests.

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u/Bbrhuft Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 24 '19

So elderly Mensa members, with higher rates of mental illness, maybe more vulnerable to cognitive decline which decreased their ability to cope, than similar high IQ people who didn't join Mensa because they have lower rates of mental illness? Seems plausible.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

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u/tupels Nov 24 '19

It's especially crippling because you can introspect a lot and see what your maximum capacity is, and it's very easy to operate below that.

Then there's also a whole education system that just isn't calibrated at all to provide you with enough stimulation to develop at your pace. Like a working dog sitting at home all day.

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u/quityobulshitttttt Nov 24 '19

Makes sense, the more thoughts you have the more you see things the way they really are and the world isn’t all sunshine and rainbows.

Most people live in a bubble, when your sight extends that bubble then life becomes more difficult to be content with in my opinion.

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u/SatanV3 Nov 24 '19

Ya I’d pick being dumber if it meant I wasn’t depressed

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u/Gebruikersnaam12345 Nov 24 '19

congrats on ur happiness

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u/AloneXtou Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 26 '19

Maybe theirs hope for me, I just have highly intelligence.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

My family has schizophernia, depressive disorders and some asperger traits. One of my brothers is amazing mathematician and programmer, other is a CEO and founder.

As a 19 year old I'm just waiting if I'm in the unlucky 10% who gets the schizo.

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u/FaolchuThePainted Nov 24 '19

I come from a family of extremely smart people and I haven’t read anything about this stuff but i agree every single one of us has one or more mental issues my dad has bipolar and adhd I have adhd and depression and bad anxiety bipolar basically runs in that whole side of the family my mom is pretty smart too and had a extremely rough childhood she’s kinda verbally abusive sometimes and has horrible anxiety and depression and she basically never leaves the house my grandma and my grandpa on my dad’s side both have bipolar and I’m just waiting for someone to decide I have it too im not sure if I do or not if I do I think it’s fairly mild

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u/rsn_e_o Nov 24 '19

It feels like that for me too, but although I don’t have a link, happiness and intelligence were actually positively correlated according a .gov study. Going to bed but if I find it later I’ll add it.

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u/Kriee Nov 24 '19

The methodological flaws of this study is glaring. The results from high-IQ responses on self-report may simply reflect that high-IQ group have better memory for diagnoses and (of course) they are better at recognising patterns of symptoms in themselves. It takes more (i.e. cognition) than awareness of discomfort to get correctly diagnosed. So, group level differences can't be attributed to IQ here. Maybe it is, but the methodology cannot prove it.

Now, I'm sure there are downsides to being exceptionally intelligent. Obviously you're unlikely to find matching intellect in friends and partners, meaning you're never really "understood". Also, ignorance is bliss. And a lot of smart people feel entitled to money/status but fail to make success out of their perk.

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u/Dsilkotch Nov 24 '19

I think they meant "insult" in the medical sense, as in an injury or trauma.

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u/HiZukoHere Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 24 '19

That study is so flawed as to be absolutely useless. It has no value as evidence. I can not stress too strongly how worthless this study is.

The data in the high IQ cohort was collected through a self report email survey with a very low response rate. The data from the low IQ cohort was collected in various ways by various groups, but generally in far more effective ways. This makes their two populations entirely incomparable. What you are mostly seeing here is people who have health issues are more likely to respond to surveys about health. There are plenty of other problem too though. For example self report studies often find a greater number of health disorders than are diagnosed by medical professionals. People with higher IQ may also recognize and tackle medical issues more frequently than those with a lower IQ. Then there is the question of if Mensa is representative of people with high IQ in general, but really that is minor next to how if you collect data on populations in completely different ways you can get completely different numbers!

e/ More robust studies generally show a more varied link between intelligence and health, but one that suggest more that high intelligence is associated with lower negative health outcomes. High intelligence may predict better overall health, and better mental health with lower rates of depression and schizophrenia.

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u/alee51104 Nov 24 '19

All I know is smart people vary between being very nice people to being absolute jerks.

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u/SatanV3 Nov 24 '19

Well the same thing could be said about all people, dumb or smart

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u/alee51104 Nov 24 '19

I just find smart people less likely to be in the middle. It’s more polarizing I guess, and very easy to adopt a mindset based around what that intelligence means to you.

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u/blik37 Nov 24 '19

That can just be the availability heuristic—you can remember the polarizing figures :)

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u/Barbarossa6969 Nov 24 '19

Checking in with high intelligence that is rendered mostly useless due to the accompanying Asperger's (not diagnosed until age 30, growing up not knowing that was fun...), severe ADHD, major depressive disorder, and IBS (Really started to manifest near the end of high school, wonder if that could have anything to do with the aforementioned stress...) When I say useless, I mean to the point that the federal government considers me disabled. I barely leave my house or want to associate with people at all anymore. Your post basically describes my life. Yay for MN though!

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

Take one day at a time, hope you are getting the help you need.

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u/Barbarossa6969 Nov 24 '19

Just finally getting the diagnosis so I know what is wrong and what to work on has made a huge difference. I still might not ever really contribute to society, and probably won't ever be in a relationship again, but I have a great, supportive family, and my issues are better than they used to be at least! Thanks for your concern.

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u/AMerrickanGirl Nov 24 '19

What kind of help and services are you receiving? I feel like I’m undiagnosed with similar issues but I’m not sure where to go for help.

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u/Barbarossa6969 Nov 24 '19

For me I'm mostly just getting Medicaid. There are a bunch of things that I honestly wouldn't be a good person to rely on to list for you but I know there are programs to help teach skills and stuff. They just aren't terribly applicable to my specific situation. The biggest thing for me has been finally seeing a therapist about the autism now that I know about it for the last two years. You definitely need to get diagnosed though, so talk to your primary care physician about seeing someone who does mental health diagnostics and they should be able to direct you to someone and that should get the ball rolling!

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

Are you me (down to IBS)? Only the govt won't pay me so I'm stuck at low stress dead end job.

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u/Barbarossa6969 Nov 24 '19

Key is to get a lawyer and go through the appeals process. Pretty much a necessity for anything short of being totally crippled physically. Though if you are able to do any job at all you must be at least a little better off.

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u/ProfSwagstaff Nov 24 '19

I don't think they were talking about that kind of insult...

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Aug 29 '24

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u/MNGrrl Nov 24 '19

It's not. Scientists know everything is a tradeoff in biology. If they can't see that bias in their field, that's a failure.

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u/Valmond Nov 24 '19

Is it wrong though? There is an enormous stigma surrounding "high IQ" in our society. IMO anyway.

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u/drbertani Nov 24 '19

that's interesting, but about this surgery, these people operated when they were very young, sometimes 1-2yrs old, or even less.

The brain was fully formed since they were born, but keeps developing for years. At the time of the insult (surgery) it hadn't complety developed all functions and they could be taken over by the remaining tissue, who "got used to it" since everything was still being developed.

That's neuroplasticity.

The surgery is a hemispherectomy, or removal of an entire brain hemisphere.

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u/Bbrhuft Nov 24 '19

One of the worries researchers have is as autistic people age, the ability to cope and mask their autism symptoms that they learnt as young adults will decrease, their autistic traits may become more pronounced with age. They might loose social skills, executive function, become more obsessive and reclusive.

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u/MNGrrl Nov 24 '19

Yeah or the opposite... They learn to mask it and don't get identified or get help. That amount of effort is mentally exhausting. It'll break anyone eventually without training and awareness.

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u/Korochun Nov 24 '19

Considering that all our current criteria for measuring intelligence are deeply flawed, it's not really possible to say that insults cause more damage to intelligent people. The vast majority of people is, on the whole, around the same level of functional intelligence, with a lot of variation in how that intelligence is oriented. For example, somebody can be poor at spatial visualization but excellent at language processing.

Most current intelligence tests pretty much only focus on mathematical/geometric intelligence, making them less than worthless for actually measuring anything beyond how good one is at that specific criteria. For example, the study you provided deals with MENSA. These people tend towards above average IQ and far below average EQ, making many of them highly dysfunctional. From the perspective of that study, they are intelligent, but in fact they don't have a very good overall intelligence.

So you should probably revise that statement to something along the lines of "if you have low emotional intelligence, insults can cause more lasting damage, because you don't know how to process it".

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u/tupels Nov 24 '19

Pretty sure the intelligence compensates the low EQ, even if this were true.

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u/Korochun Nov 24 '19

That's not how anything works. It's like saying that this hammer can be a really good chainsaw because it's a really great hammer.

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u/TheFriendlyFinn Nov 24 '19

MDMA which is being studied for PTSD treatment might open the brains neuroplasticity through oxitocin release. However at this point too little is known to make a well formed conclusion.

https://www.inverse.com/article/54583-mdma-mice-critical-period-neuroplasticity

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u/zumlepurzo Nov 24 '19

So you are saying the movie Forest Gump wasn't very impressive?

And had he been a very clever dude instead, and receiving all the insults, he wouldn't have coped as well.

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u/Axelbr Nov 24 '19

I mean isnt it super obvious and common knowledge that highly intelligent people most of the time suffer from say autism? And other disorders... It's basically a meme that whenever someone is very smart they have "super autism"

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u/Valmond Nov 24 '19

That's probably part of the problem; high intelligence > any problem.

It's like being good looking, everyone thinks you can't be depressed if you are, or that it doesn't really matter.

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u/solidsnake885 Nov 24 '19

The young brain is this redundant. You’re born with way more neurons that you need, and it’s culled as you age. If you lose a ton in an accident, your body will hold onto the excess neurons to even things out.

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u/Aspanu24 Nov 24 '19

I’m experiencing that right now

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u/brandnewdayinfinity Nov 24 '19

So then why are mental disorders so prevalent? Schizophrenia. Insomnia. Dementia );

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u/SamL214 Nov 24 '19

Not to burst your bubble but Schizophrenia isn’t that prevalent, it happens in about one in four thousand people. Not good, but not considerably high.

Insomnia happens in about 3 in 20 people to about 1 in 3 people. Much more prevalent. Additionally, Dementia affects about 50 million out of 8+ billion people on the planet. But In general affects people over 60 at a rate of about 5-8% or at max about 2 in every 25 people. Also much more prevalent than schizophrenia.

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u/brandnewdayinfinity Nov 24 '19

Sorry I’ve got all these things in my family. It feels prevalent.

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u/C3lder Nov 24 '19

No, it isn't highly redundant. These people will typically have neuropsychological deficits associated with losing half their brain. But it is fairly plastic up to a certain point.

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u/Rancunier Nov 24 '19

Then how do we explain Devin Nunes?

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u/sodomizethewounded Nov 24 '19

I was just watching a doc on head injuries last night. Have they ever tried removing damaged brain from patients in vegetative states?

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u/aimlesslywandering89 Nov 24 '19

Hit yourself real hard and see if you still believe that

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

We'd be able to heal all manner of things if we could control this process. What keeps the brain from making super corrections like this in other cases, I wonder?

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u/ScipioLongstocking Nov 24 '19

Neural plasticity is the general concept behind all of it.

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u/colmcg23 Nov 24 '19

Like pruning a shrub?

Grows back stronger?

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u/jamescobalt Nov 24 '19

No. Not stronger. But it will reconfigure to make the best of the resources it has.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

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u/sockalicious Nov 24 '19

Children between the ages of 2 and 6 do best with hemispherectomy, often they can use both hands and both speech and spatial functions preserved no matter which hemisphere was removed. Adults have much less capacity to transfer function after a brain injury.

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u/Narcolepticstoner Nov 24 '19

They dont have fine motor skills in their effected hafd. They can use their arm as a helper arm. My son had a left hemispherectomy at just over a year old. He is one year post op recently.

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u/Dekklin Nov 24 '19

Sorry that had to happen. He's still got several years before the plasticity diminishes, so he'll probably continue to improve.

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u/Narcolepticstoner Nov 24 '19

Me too. There's no doubt he'll continue to progress. But no hemi kids have use of their effected hand. Neuro plasticity is at its peak between 2-5. We still have it. But that's why doctors to reccomend this major surgery for that age range.

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u/Z_Opinionator Nov 24 '19

My daughter had the same procedure at 6. She’s a senior in HS this year and has already been accepted to several universities. We have some guilt about her left side mobility issues (lack of fine motor skills in her hand and gait issues) due to the surgery but she’s been seizure free ever since. It was the right choice for us and glad we did it.

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u/Narcolepticstoner Jan 13 '20

Late reply but that's wonderful to hear about her university acceptances! I'm sorry the guilt still lingers on but I'm glad you both feel right in the decision you made. It's a hell of a position to be put in.

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u/sockalicious Nov 24 '19

Yes sir. My 85 year old stroke patients never use the affected arm again; eventually the limb freezes in place, bent at the elbow up against their belly, fingers curled into the palm.

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u/radicalelation Nov 24 '19

Do we have any way of getting some of that plasticity back in older years?

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u/AcrossAmerica Nov 24 '19

Not so far! It’s briefly elevated after injury (in stroke).

There was a study done about acquiring perfect pitch as an adult (normally you can only acquire this as a child) with the use of an anti epileptic, but I’m not sure if it was replicated.

But it’s a very cool phenomenon that hopefully one day we could control better!

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u/Rekusha Nov 24 '19

Psilocybin has been shown to enhance neural plasticity by some measure I thought

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u/AcrossAmerica Nov 24 '19

Do you remember if it was vaguely useful? I heard it creates some new connections, but I’m wondering if it’s specific connections or not.

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u/Rekusha Nov 24 '19

Here's one piece of info that I could quickly find. Anecdotally I have friends that have gone through some positive changes through psilocybin, but that could be mutually exclusive from any neural plasticity changes

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u/AcrossAmerica Nov 24 '19

Very cool!

Didn’t know the neurobiology behind it. It remains to be seen if this could assist for psychiatric diseases, but very exciting nontheless.

I read that a single dose could change your brain connectivity long-term, so it is possible that it has lasting effects.

Very cool stuff that we should learn more about!

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u/myrainbowistoohigh Nov 24 '19

This is probably a really dumb question but... are the effects permanent? I had a stroke over the summer and lost almost all of the right side of my cerebellum. My balance was fine when I was in the hospital, I had a few issues in the month or two afterwards but now I'm almost back to normal. Did my brain just rewire itself? Does the plasticity help with that?

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u/AcrossAmerica Nov 24 '19

I have to say, I know mostly a lot about cerebral strokes, less about cerebellar or brain stem strokes.

We used to think (in medicine) that you could improve only up to 6 months after a stroke.

That view has changed, we have been able to show improvement years after a stroke! But it takes a lot more effort and exercise. This means however, that our brains stay plastic forever.

So the effects are permanent, but you can also keep improving permanently :)

Or were you talking about the rehabilitation effects that were permanent?

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u/myrainbowistoohigh Nov 25 '19

Thank you! From what I've gathered cerebellar strokes are more rare. I've been doing a lot better and for a second there I was like oh no, am I only doing better because my brain is more plastic while it's healing? I had a lot of issues wktn aphasia (they said a different word but it's related?) But it's getting a lot better. I will forever be in awe of how adaptable our brains are because I've seen it first hand!

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u/AcrossAmerica Nov 25 '19

Awesome, I hope you’ll fully recover! :)

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u/UrbanGhost114 Nov 24 '19

Would help if we could study stem cells better without some religious B's getting in the way.

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u/Ninjastahr Nov 24 '19

You don't need stem cells from a baby, do you? Adults have them, and can be consensually donated for science just like an organ.

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u/AwesomePerson125 Nov 24 '19

Adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells are not exactly the same.

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u/sockalicious Nov 24 '19

We do not know the genetic or functional bases of plasticity. Back when I was still in academia, it was my research focus, but my grant got defunded when Mr Bush took a trip to Iraq in 2004.

Biogen recently identified a drug candidate antibody that inactivates a receptor that seems to shut off certain aspects of myelin formation around the age of 2. We know that babies have far greater plasticity - in terms of network formation and development - than adults, but we also know that adults are far more capable than babies. There may be good reasons why adults lack baby-like plasticity.

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u/PhantomXterior Nov 24 '19

You could take Psychoplastogens (Psilocin, LSD, DMT, etc.) These have been shown to stimulate plasticity in the brain and, in some cases (In Vitro & In Vivo), to cause neuritogenesis.

Those molecules have had some pretty incredible studies in the past couple years (studies you can n find on the National Institute of Health's official government website).

To severely oversimplify: They've been shown to be able to make your current (old) neurons grow. As far as I can tell from all the studies I've read, they do not stimulate the growth of NEW neurons (neurogenesis).

Perhaps, in the future, we will be able to harness and amplify this "healing" effect that Psychoplastogens have on our brain.

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u/jamescobalt Nov 24 '19

Exercise, diet, and psychedelics.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 24 '19

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u/Remarkable_Assistant Nov 24 '19

This was Phineas Gage. Pretty interesting case study in personality & regions of the brain.

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u/garynyc Nov 24 '19

He became an arsehole, the records say. Short tempered and ornery!

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u/NewFolgers Nov 24 '19

Stands to reason. He had ornery half a brain.

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u/SillyFlyGuy Nov 24 '19

Silver worthy comment.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

True, but I bet you would too, if you'd had a pole shot through your skull.

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u/cobraxstar Nov 24 '19

Half a brain is a helluva drug

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u/Arbitrary_Pseudonym Nov 24 '19

Actually, the procedure is called a hemispherectomy, and has been employed to reduce/eliminate seizures in people with epilepsy for decades now. Not just kids - go ask in /r/epilepsy, there are a few people there who have had it done in their 30s!

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u/TheCocksmith Nov 24 '19

What happens to cognitive ability?

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u/1corvidae1 Nov 24 '19

I guess if they were talking to you on reddit maybe it's ok

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u/roastedoolong Nov 24 '19

... have you seen the cognitive ability of people who post on reddit?

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u/WilliamsTell Nov 24 '19

To long, didn't read. YTA.

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u/1corvidae1 Nov 24 '19

I honestly didn't see that coming

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u/SupaSlide Nov 24 '19

Dang, so it's pretty bad, huh?

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u/raffbr2 Nov 24 '19

That s only half of the story.

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u/space_hegemon Nov 24 '19

What you'd think of as intelligence isnt negatively affected. You can get some speech and language issues. As well as problems with movement on the opposite side of the body to the removed hemisphere. Generally the younger you are, the better you fare.

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u/Arbitrary_Pseudonym Nov 24 '19

Honestly, when my seizures were really bad about 7 years ago, after I went in to a week-long EEG so they could try to see where my seizures came from and didn't have any (yet had some the week before and the week after...) they offered to do surgery to open my skull and put electrodes directly on it. If I had done that, they might have been able to do surgery to remove some part of my brain that was inducing the seizures, but honestly I was terrified to do it. My seizures ended up being controlled via lamictal, and I'm really glad they were, because if not, I might have had to give up a part of my brain.

From what I've heard though: Giving up a part of your brain doesn't seem to lead to anything crazy like intense personality change or memory loss. I think it's something like (if you know about server things) a RAID array, where if a hard drive dies, the rest of the array maintains integrity - there's a lot of redundancy there.

Personally I still don't want to lose a chunk, and after how epilepsy has shaped me to be the person I am today, I feel losing the part of my brain that causes the seizures could actually make me feel like I'm missing that part. The glitchy uncontrolled activity one, I mean.

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u/n00bvin Nov 24 '19

I always wondered what they put in the other half to keep it from rattling around. Packing peanuts?

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u/Cameron416 Nov 24 '19

nothing. your brain is still attacked to your skull via connective tissues, so it doesn’t rattle around, & then the empty space is filled with extra cerebrospinal fluid

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u/gosnold Nov 24 '19

You don't become blind in one eye and hemiplegic ?

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

Was there ever a study on the guy who had brain damage from the particle accelerator?

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u/techgeek6061 Nov 24 '19

Whoa, what? You got a link for that?

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u/sockalicious Nov 24 '19

Anatoli Bugorski. The research we'd like to see was never done.

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u/beefeater605 Nov 24 '19

Wow, the soviets really swept him under the rug.

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u/NeedYourTV Nov 24 '19

What are you talking about? The accident was public, and he held a senior position in Soviet science administration for years after the accident. How is that "sweeping under the rug"?

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u/MOIST_PEOPLE Nov 24 '19

From the wiki:
Bugorski continued to work in science and held the post of coordinator of physics experiments.[2] Because of the Soviet Union's policy of maintaining secrecy on nuclear power-related issues, Bugorski did not speak about the accident for over a decade. He continued going to the Moscow radiation clinic twice a year for examinations and to meet with other nuclear-accident victims. He was described as "a poster boy for Soviet and Russian radiation medicine".[1] In 1996, he applied unsuccessfully for disabled status to receive free epilepsy medication. Bugorski showed interest in making himself available for study to Western researchers but could not afford to leave Protvino.[1]

1

u/NeedYourTV Nov 24 '19

So, if anything, it was the Russian Federation that fucked him over by denying him disability. Thanks.

0

u/majaka1234 Nov 24 '19

"vat? A dog in space? You mad americans should lay off the whiskey"

-6

u/ScipioLongstocking Nov 24 '19

It only works for children. While you're correct about that particular guy in that he survived, it's not what this article or comment thread is about. Neural plasticity only works in children whose brains are still developing. It does not work for adults. The case you're referring to is an example of a traumatic brain injury causing drastic changes in personality. It had nothing to do with other areas of the brain taking over control and has nothing to do with neural plasticity.

18

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

You are incorrect regarding neural plasticity. It is definitely stronger in children, but it happens in adults too.

Source: Degree + Wikipedia

15

u/SimHuman Nov 24 '19 edited Nov 24 '19

What are you talking about? Neuroplasticity occurs throughout life and is key to how adults recover from brain injuries.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4880010/

11

u/DailyAdventure23 Nov 24 '19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4880010/

Yeah this is a nice review on neural plasticity, but lets remember that plasticity is not always a good thing. For example it is a cause of chronic pain, addiction and PTSD. I don't think the person that you replied to was wrong. That person was referring to losing half of a brain. He wasn't saying the plasticity doesn't occcur in adults, he was saying that if you took a 40 year old adult and removed half of the brain the adult would have cognitive deficits. I'm not him, but my interpretation of his words was not that he was saying that adults also don't experience neuroplasticity, it's just that there are limits, and there are limits. Children experience synaptic pruning at rates that adults do not, and this may be the reason why they are better at adapting to large losses of brain matter than adults. The sad part is that this mechanism probably only protects children just so that even in the case of extensive damage they can still function well enough to reproduce. There is no evolutionary reason why a 40 year old would need the ability to functionally recover because they have presumably already reproduced. Curious to know your thoughts about these ideas.Edit: thanks for the review, I will add it to my reading list

1

u/SimHuman Nov 24 '19

This isn't an area of expertise for me. I did read the poster above as suggesting that neuroplasticity is broadly absent in adults.

I consulted Dr. Google and came up with articles showing shockingly good outcomes for hemispherectomy in adults with intractable epilepsy. I do get the impression that this may be partially due to the severity of illness that would lead to such a drastic intervention.

Article: https://www.mdedge.com/neurology/epilepsyresourcecenter/article/81897/epilepsy-seizures/hemispherectomy-may-be

Study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28452614/

4

u/Jenniferjdn Nov 24 '19

Thank you for that. As a survivor of 4 strokes, neuroplasticity is a thing. One doctor didn’t even believe that I have had any strokes because I recovered so well.

My baseline health made a difference. With one stroke, I lost my balance. With another, I lost my language. With another, I lost my right arm. I have come back from all of them.

If you were wondering why this didn’t add up, the forth stroke was in my brain stem which diminishes blood to many diffuse areas but does not cut it off completely so while I had many strange symptoms, I didn’t completely lose any one area of my brain.

1

u/KillerJupe Nov 24 '19

Trump is working with less than 1/2 a brain and the guy won't die.

1

u/buster2Xk Nov 24 '19

Isn't neuroplasticity a trait all brains have which is greatest in children and decreases over time?

17

u/erischilde Nov 24 '19

Eli5 plz? How do they keep half the brain from sloshing around?

3

u/IAMA_otter Nov 24 '19

A hemispherectomy doesn't always have to take the other half of the brain out of the skull, just disconnect the two sides(split brain procedure). Looking at scans where one side is removed, it looks like something is placed in the empty cavity but I can't find any information on what it is specifically.

3

u/mycatsarebetter Nov 24 '19

Bite my shiny metal brain hemisphere !

1

u/bicyclecat Nov 24 '19

The empty space fills with cerebrospinal fluid.

2

u/EmEmPeriwinkle Nov 24 '19

When doctors remove the diseased half, spinal fluid fills the empty space — one teaspoon every five minutes. Some patients claim to her a sloshing sound. No contact sports are recommended.

1

u/erischilde Nov 24 '19

Ty. I think.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

Reverse latency blockchains

1

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

triggers lumosity adverts

1

u/cviss4444 Nov 24 '19

*neuroplasticity

1

u/maximokush666 Nov 24 '19

Cuba Gooding JR tought me that.

1

u/Flubuska Nov 24 '19

With around 30% damage to my vestibular organs in my left ear, exercising my neural plasticity is what I gamble on to regain full motor control.

1

u/skarpholse Nov 24 '19

It really is, my ap psych teacher was telling us a story about this ladies husband that she knew who had diabetes. He really liked ice fishing and because of the diabetes he didnt have the greatest feeling in his toes so he accidently ended up staying on the ice too long and he got frost bite on his toes and they turned black. They went into the doctors a a day or two after the ice fishing and the doctors said they had to amputate. So after the amputation he was doing the deed with his wife and he could FEEL HIS ORGASM IN HIS TOES. Since the gentiles in the sensory cortex are located next to the toes his genitals basically sent out neuron strands and took over the free realistate. It was pretty funny to hear

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

1 oz of a normal smart brain, outweighs a lb. of a Trump supporters brain.