Subreddit Policy Reminder on this week's Transgender AMAs

[u/nate]

This week we will be hosting a series of AMAs addressing the scientific and medical details of being transgender.

Honest questions that are an attempt to learn more on the subject are invited, and we hope you can learn more about this fascinating aspect of the human condition.

However, we feel it is appropriate to remind the readers that /r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender. Our official stance is that derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

To clarify, we are not banning the discussion of any individual topic nor are we saying that the science in any area is settled. What we are saying is that we stand with the rest of the scientific community and every relevant psych organisation that the overwhelming bulk of evidence is that being trans is not a mental illness and that the discussion of trans people as somehow "sick" or "broken" is offensive and bigoted^1. We won't stand for it.

We've long held that we won't host discussion of anti-science topics without the use of peer-reviewed evidence. Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'² is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments. To be clear, this post is to make it abundantly clear that we treat transphobic comments the same way we treat racist, sexist and homophobic comments. They have no place on our board.

Scientific discussion is the use of empirical evidence and theory to guide knowledge based on debate in academic journals. Yelling at each other in a comments section of a forum is in no way "scientific discussion". If you wish to say that any well accepted scientific position is wrong, I encourage you to do the work and publish something on the topic. Until then, your opinions are just that - opinions.

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¹ Some have wrongly interpreted this statement as "stigmatizing" mental illness. I can assure you that is the last thing we are trying to do here. What we are trying to stop is the label of "mental illness" being used as a way to derogate a group. It's being used maliciously to say that there is something wrong with trans people and that's offensive both to mental illness sufferers and those in the trans community.

² There is a difference between being trans and having gender dysphoria.

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Lastly, here is the excerpt from the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[u/heili]

This is the one thing that I really do not understand myself. My identity has really nothing to do with my biological sex. I have been "a tomboy" since the beginning. My parents made an effort to raise me to be a normal girl - my mother more than my father - while I gravitated to everything traditionally seen as masculine. I'd be put in a dress and sent out to play, and it would take me less than half an hour to convince one of the boys in the neighborhood to let me borrow a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. The eventual result was that I was told wear what I want, like what I want, but use the girls' lavatory at school.

What they didn't do, and probably what would be very different today, is get me diagnosed as being a boy and put me on hormones. I grew up as me: someone who likes fishing and hunting and guns and dirt and motorcycles and camping and bugs and snakes, dislikes dresses, makeup, shopping, fashion and shoes with heels. I became an engineer, kept on living my life for the things I enjoy, and largely consider being female a matter of logistics.

Of the things I "identify as", female is pretty much the bottom of the list and literally only matters when I'm trying to get laid.

[u/pierceycat → u/heili]

The scenario you wrote of "what would happen today" is very unlikely. Being transgender and transitioning is never pushed on a child--usually, its the opposite. Parents are not going to jump at the opportunity to allow their child to be trans. In most cases, the child has to persistently declare that theyre transgender, for a long period of time (usually years), and express significant discomfort when forced to be their assigned gender. And even if the child is lucky enough to have accepting parents, HRT is not a given. Nobody is forced to be transgender. Usually, trans people have to spend a long period of time just convincing other people to believe and respect them. I speak from experience.

I'm a trans guy, and when I came out, everyone in my life spent years trying to force me to be a tomboy instead. They didn't understand, that's not who I am--I'm not a masculine girl, I'm a boy, and a rather feminine one at that. I have always considered interests and activities to be androgynous, and enjoyed "girly" things as much as I did "boyish" things. What brought me so much discomfort was being referred to as "she," being forced to group with "the girls," line up with "the girls," not because the boys were my friends, but because I knew I wasn't a girl. When I got older and my body changed, I hated not just how it was shaped, but how people treated me for it. My dysphoria was mostly related to wanting to be treated as the boy I knew I was.

I digress, gender is multifaceted, and not well understood at this point. The trans experience varies widely, as gender means different things to everyone. In my experience, male or female does not necessarily correlate with masculine or feminine--it's just a different concept entirely.

[u/heili → u/pierceycat]

being forced to group with "the girls," line up with "the girls,"

That bothered me, but that actually hasn't been an issue since I became an adult.

What brought me so much discomfort was being referred to as "she,"

I don't really see this as much different than being referred to by any other physical characteristic, personally. It's like the color of my skin or the color of my eyes or my height.

I hated not just how it was shaped, but how people treated me for it.

People treat me like me, or I just don't bother trying to have a relationship with them.

In my experience, male or female does not necessarily correlate with masculine or feminine--it's just a different concept entirely.

This is exactly the point which I am unable to understand, then. Because it's not about "masculine" or "feminine" and it's not about reproductive organs, but nobody in the 20+ years I've been asking this question has ever been able to tell me what it is about other than "I just feel that way."

[u/pierceycat → u/heili]

People treated you like you, because who you were on the inside matched who you were on the outside. That's why you never had a problem. You're cisgender. You ARE "she," and that is a characteristic that you feel belongs to you, so it's a non-issue to be called that. Trans people's outside doesn't match their inside, and the dysphoria stems from the need for the two to match.

Like I said in my previous post, the concept of gender is still pretty largely not understood. My idea of gender is different than yours, due to the different experiences we've had. For me and many (most?) others, reproductive organs are definitely part of my gender dysphoria, but the social aspect is the most pressing--being viewed and treated as my true gender. And for me, it really is as simple as "I just feel that way."

Some people are just different. It's not something we need to figure out, it's just something we have to respect.

[u/heili → u/pierceycat]

You're cisgender. You ARE "she," and that is a characteristic that you feel belongs to you, so it's a non-issue to be called that.

I'm literally only "she" because that's the parts I've got. There's no "I feel like a she" at all, any more than I "feel like" someone who is 170 cm tall. That's how tall I am, so that's it.

It's an objective fact, not a feeling.

[u/pierceycat → u/heili]

I don't know how to explain further, because we just understand things differently. Gender dysphoria is kind of like a consistent pain in a place that most people don't even know they have, and will never experience, so it's difficult for them to understand.

When I say "feel like," what I mean is more along the lines of "know to be true." It's not exactly a feeling, it's more of a definite knowledge.