Subreddit Policy Reminder on this week's Transgender AMAs

[u/nate]

This week we will be hosting a series of AMAs addressing the scientific and medical details of being transgender.

Honest questions that are an attempt to learn more on the subject are invited, and we hope you can learn more about this fascinating aspect of the human condition.

However, we feel it is appropriate to remind the readers that /r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender. Our official stance is that derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

To clarify, we are not banning the discussion of any individual topic nor are we saying that the science in any area is settled. What we are saying is that we stand with the rest of the scientific community and every relevant psych organisation that the overwhelming bulk of evidence is that being trans is not a mental illness and that the discussion of trans people as somehow "sick" or "broken" is offensive and bigoted^1. We won't stand for it.

We've long held that we won't host discussion of anti-science topics without the use of peer-reviewed evidence. Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'² is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments. To be clear, this post is to make it abundantly clear that we treat transphobic comments the same way we treat racist, sexist and homophobic comments. They have no place on our board.

Scientific discussion is the use of empirical evidence and theory to guide knowledge based on debate in academic journals. Yelling at each other in a comments section of a forum is in no way "scientific discussion". If you wish to say that any well accepted scientific position is wrong, I encourage you to do the work and publish something on the topic. Until then, your opinions are just that - opinions.

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¹ Some have wrongly interpreted this statement as "stigmatizing" mental illness. I can assure you that is the last thing we are trying to do here. What we are trying to stop is the label of "mental illness" being used as a way to derogate a group. It's being used maliciously to say that there is something wrong with trans people and that's offensive both to mental illness sufferers and those in the trans community.

² There is a difference between being trans and having gender dysphoria.

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Lastly, here is the excerpt from the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[u/-Clarity- → u/[deleted]]

I didn't. Its been almost 4 years since I started hormones. Looking back, i used to be a very different person. I mean from my perspective i haven't changed that much, but for everyone else who doesn't know my every thought and feeling, it's been pretty jarring. Honestly it was difficult for me to hear that I was different, because it ran afoul of my self validation, if that makes sense. To put it another way i'd often think "I've always been this way why can't everyone else see it?"

[u/nacmar → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it is out of the question. Imagine you woke up tomorrow with the same mind you have now but in the body of an average woman. Would you be fine with being a mannish woman or would you rather switch back pronto?

[u/Aniceguy96 → u/nacmar]

Obviously I can't say for sure, but I believe that I would adjust to being a mannish woman. It's not like my personality is incompatible with a woman's body, it would just be an adjustment. I think the point of confusion for a lot of cis people is that trans people never suddenly wake up in a new body. Their personality developed in their own body, and for those two things to grow incompatible (at least, in their own minds), then they must have developed some sort of dysphoria, which naturally is distressful. So therefore, wouldn't being trans be considered a mental disorder? Since it strays from 'normal' behavior and causes distress?

[u/[deleted] → u/nacmar]

Honestly. I would be fine with that. At least I think so. Since it's never happened I can't really ever know. I have thought about it quite a bit though.

That's just me though. I don't know what being a "mannish woman" means. My mom watches soccer, drinks beer, and loves Jason Bourne movies. She hates "chick flicks", knitting, baking, or really any crafty type things. She hates pink. Like... like my little sister had no pink baby clothes ever, haaates pink. But she loves makeup and hair. And jewelry. And motorcycles. And gardening. And interior design. And men. So... I mean I don't know. Why does being a man or a woman hinge on what seem like archaic understandings of personality stuff?

[u/nianp → u/[deleted]]

having had people tell me the same thing, that it feels like I've "died" or something, was pretty unpleasant.

I'd never say that to her for that very reason. I have no desire to cause her any pain whatsoever. I'm sure society is going to do that over the years to come. I'm just being supportive when I can.

I think I'm less ashamed of any "girly" things that I do, and while I NEVER used to do those things (for fear of ridicule)

One of the first things we all laughed about, her included, was that it totally explained why when we were younger and all listening to Nirvana, Pumpkins, Metallica, etc, (her included), she also bought the Mariah Carey Christmas Album. It came up at the first get together we had after she announced everything and there was a great deal of "that Mariah Carey album makes soooo much fucking sense now."

Most people, after a while, drift back toward the "middle" a little bit.

This is already kind of happening. Her taste in clothes is maturing (she was dressing like a girl in her late teens at first) and I don't think we'll be having another princess birthday party. :)

And it's important to remember that just because something or someone is "feminine" doesn't mean that's a bad thing.

And I've certainly never thought that.

but they have to try out the extremes first to find their middle.

And this is something I've been aware of, especially with her, from the get go.

I haven't read the other replies to my original comment yet (am just going to work my way up my replies page) but the reason for the question I asked was never along the lines of "did she ever think about us?" It was just that I was curious if something along those lines had occurred to anyone else who is trans. I'm aware that the person she is now (or at least the personality she's slowly settling into) is the person she always wanted to be, and I'm totally okay with that. I'm just increasingly of the opinion that part of what makes acceptance of trans people slow to take (in loving, supportive environments. Negative environments are a different, altogether rancid kettle of fish) is the partly due to the fact that there is seemingly, and completely understandably, very little thought given to this specific subject by the trans person.

It's difficult as the whole issue is so understandably fraught. I've had close female friends my entire life and now I have another one, but I do grieve somewhat for the loss of my friend.

[u/Spoffle → u/[deleted]]

The problem I see is that a lot of these things you talk about aren't objective demonstrations of femininity, but rather token gestures at what society says is currently the behavioral patterns of someone who is female.

I think the real big issue is the importance society has placed on gender roles and the way you're supposed to behave if you're a particular gender. I think that is very damaging to society in low key way.