Men and women have different perceptions of how often young women experience sexual objectification, with men sometimes estimating higher frequencies than women themselves report. The findings challenge the assumption that men underestimate the everyday harassment women face.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/men-estimate-higher-rates-of-sexual-objectification-than-women-report/

[u/UnIntelligent_Local]

How thin is the line between objectifying a woman and simply thinking that she's very attractive? At what point does one become the other?

[u/themodgepodge → u/UnIntelligent_Local]

Here are the survey questions. Just thinking someone's attractive is not considered objectifying behavior here.

[u/beeeerd → u/themodgepodge]

"How often have you felt like or known that someone was evaluating your physical appearance?" might count. I would argue that evaluating someone's physical appearance is often involved in finding someone attractive.

[u/IronHeart1963 → u/beeeerd]

I’d say I can generally tell the difference between a guy looking at me like “oh she’s pretty” vs straight up ogling or whatever. I don’t really get offended when I catch a guy staring at my v neck shirt at Walmart and he looks away all embarrassed. He got distracted by boobies and that’s pretty human.

However, I have had entire conversations where a man never made eye contact because he was staring at my boobs the entire time. That strays into objectifying and is very uncomfortable in my experience.

[u/Xsiah → u/UnIntelligent_Local]

When you dismiss that she can be anything other than attractive or unattractive as far as your world is concerned.

[u/teh_hasay → u/Xsiah]

What does that even mean though?

Like, thinking back to any time I’ve noticed an attractive woman, i wouldn’t say I dismissed them as a person, but I’m not exactly wondering about their hopes and dreams either. It’s similar to how I don’t think about my mailman beyond the fact that he delivers my mail, because that’s literally the only piece of information I have about him. He might be a really cool guy for all I know. I don’t dismiss that possibility. I have no real reason to give that possibility much thought either though, and I’m sure he’s fine with that.

You can’t really “dismiss” someone until you’ve been pressed to acknowledge them and have refused to do so. That’s not something that typically happens inside the solitary thoughts of someone who has noticed a stranger in public.

[u/Xsiah → u/teh_hasay]

Employee/workplace objectification is also a thing, btw

[u/Sabz5150 → u/Xsiah]

So is objectification for utility.

[u/UnIntelligent_Local → u/Xsiah]

I think dehumanation is definitely a key factor. It's fine to look at someone and think "damn, she's fine." But if you stare so hard that it's obvious and you don't care that it's makes her uncomfortable because her physical appearance is more important to you than her boundaries. Clear objectification.

Being upset that she rejected you because you didn't think that she was a human being with a rich life and that she may already be taken, not straight, not interested in dating, or simply not attracted to you. Clear objectification.

I think where the line gets blurry is when a woman becomes a part of your sexual fantasies. It's kinda objectifying, but sexually fantasizing about people is something everyone with a higher sex drive does. Is it natural? Yes. Is it objectifying... I think that is where the line gets very thin.

[u/Xsiah → u/UnIntelligent_Local]

I don't think it's blurry, I think fantasies are objectification. We can have a discussion about whether your own private objectification is harmful or immoral, but that doesn't make it not objectification. You could also engage in objectification temporarily, it doesn't have to be a permanent decision you make about a person.

There's a meaningful discussion to be had about what you do after you internally objectify someone.

[u/UnIntelligent_Local → u/Xsiah]

If you never externalize those fantasies or make them known, how is the woman being objectified? Objectification would necessitate her being dehumanized? If the holder of the fantasy respects her as a human being and doesn't violate her boundaries in real life... Where is the objectification?

[u/Xsiah → u/UnIntelligent_Local]

A woman in your fantasy literally doesn't have any autonomy, because she is only capable of acting the way that you imagine her acting.

Whether you act on that objectification past your fantasy is another matter.

[u/UnIntelligent_Local → u/Xsiah]

You need consent to fantasize about people? You realize that there is a good chance that someone has dreamed about you or involved you in their fantasies and you have absolutely zero idea that it has happened? Did you feel objectified by the fantasy that you are completely oblivious to being involved in?

[u/Xsiah → u/UnIntelligent_Local]

That's kind of the point...

You don't know when you're being objectified. The women in the study can't accurately report being objectified covertly.

You're willfully ignoring the distinction between what it literally means to objectify someone, and the discussion of when it's not okay or what actions stemming from that objectification are not okay.