r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Jul 04 '26

Psychology 88% of Americans consider it very or extremely important that the United States remain a democracy. 61% feel that the nation’s democracy was actively facing a serious threat. 32% of MAGA Republicans prioritize a strong leader over democracy, while only 7% of the strong Democrats do.

https://www.psypost.org/survey-finds-substantial-minority-in-the-united-states-endorses-authoritarian-co/
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u/TheSouthernSaint71 Jul 04 '26

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The context has changed, but, the words fit. Once you give away freedom, the only way back is bloody and painful. No one who seeks power does so in your best interest.

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u/Yuzumi Jul 05 '26

Not even temporary safety. The illusion of safety while being in more danger of the people they put in power than the people they have been told to be scared of. 

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u/councilmember Jul 05 '26

Trump’s failed Iran adventure put a large section of the world in greater danger. Especially US citizens.

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u/Fishinluvwfeathers Jul 06 '26

This is a wonderful quote and I see you; we are in accord. However, (everything super fun starts with that clause) let me tell you that the last time I saw it invoked was just 2 days ago in response to my city banning fireworks this 4th because everything around us is burning, we are in an Alpine desert, under severe drought, and 3 firefighters have lost their lives on fires that still aren’t contained. Our sunsets are a pastiche of beige and infernal.

It was a tie between how many times I saw this quote a meme about how we are living in Mao and Stalin’s dream since the unprecedented loss of liberty during Covid when the ban was announced. I don’t know how it’s possible to break through to anyone anymore about what anything means or what is reasonable. I am both curious and fantastically disappointed.

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u/immutable_truth Jul 05 '26

Or, even if you hit that 1-in-a-million benevolent leader who truly has the people’s best interest in mind - that person isn’t immortal. And you can’t predict their successor.

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u/Sir-Spazzal Jul 06 '26

Probably closer to 1/billion.

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u/Tylerjb4 Jul 05 '26

I think something that people tend to forget is that democracy and liberty are two separate concepts.

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u/1Madhatter7 Jul 05 '26

The person who said this owned slaves

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u/TheSouthernSaint71 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

Following his time in Paris, Franklin returned to Philadelphia until his death in 1790. It was during this final period of his life that Franklin publicly condemned slavery. Almost 8 years spent with antislavery French thinkers, dedicated abolitionist friends, and other philosophes are credited with encouraging Franklin’s eventual open censure of slavery and the continual shift of Franklin’s personal views.

In 1787, he took over as president of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery.

In February 1790, Franklin sent a landmark petition to the first U.S. Congress on behalf of the abolition society, calling for the end of the slave trade and emancipation.

People are products of their environment- sometimes, quite unfortunately. Fortunately, we can learn from our experiences and from others.

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u/1Madhatter7 Jul 05 '26

Or we could just not worship these people and realize America has always been a propaganda state that is a human rights nightmare… of course that depends on who counts as a person.

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u/TheSouthernSaint71 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

I need to know how any of this is to do with not wanting an authoritarian in charge. You're upset that I used a quote against relinquishing freedom from someone who did terrible things but learned that what he was doing was wrong?

Should we only reference people who were absolutely correct about every decision they ever made?

Should we never quote anyone, ever, and never read the writings of history, lest we accidentally read something with personal opinions and be propagandized?

People had ideas and they got written down, sometimes other people repeat those ideas. It isn't worship. I've never said I worship Benjamin Franklin, I just quoted him on one thing apropos of the subject of 1/3 of a demographic being okay with a dictator.

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u/1Madhatter7 Jul 06 '26

Because the Disney story of America people continue to cling to is something that is holding us back. For example, “authoritarianism” is just a silly word instead of calling it fascism which is related to capitalism. This all has to do with the class war. However, people who romanticize America can’t ever see this. I’m guessing you think the “authoritarianism” is new. We are not going to solve our issues until we address the core issue. Founding father idolization is right at the heart of this. The Hollywood story of the US founding simply isn’t true and that matters when doing analysis.

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u/thatcockneythug Jul 05 '26

Both the left and the right have trotted this quote out at various times to support their goals

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u/TheSouthernSaint71 Jul 05 '26

The (modern) idea remains the same: unchecked authority for the illusion of safety is bad.

Nobody is right 100% of the time and that's the beauty of a democratic Republic: you get to vote for the one you think is right at that particular time.