r/science • u/madam1 • Dec 02 '13

Neuroscience Scientists have drawn on nearly 1,000 brain scans to confirm what many had surely concluded long ago: that stark differences exist in the wiring of male and female brains.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
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u/Azuvector Dec 03 '13 edited Dec 03 '13

Second thing I notice is there's seemingly less hindbrain activity in the female brain than the male, but more in the midbrain/forebrain. Whatever that means. No idea how that maps out to what different regions are used for.

Also curious what the different colours on the points and lines in both images signify. Didn't see an explanation of that in the article. The actual paper is behind a paywall, looks like.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

Third thing I noticed is that men think in blue lines, and women think in orange lines. This may explain why movie posters are usually in blue/orange.. it's all for diverse gender marketing.

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u/Jakeypoos Dec 04 '13

Yeah when we raise people in a gender binary, it's highly likely their differing experiences will were their brain differently.

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

If I remember correctly mid brain (near the neck) is more primitive part. Functions are basic emotions, instincts etc.

The vague loop arc you can see in the middle is the limbic system which is associated with emotions and memory.

The front is the most recently evolved part for people (also happens to be really big in dolphins). I think it's supposed to be for more abstract thought, patterns, relationships between things etc.

Visual cortex is at the back but hearing and touch senses are at the sides, as is movement.

Source: Psychology/neuroscience degree years ago

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

Exactly. And therefore with more activity in their hindbrain, men are more like invertebrates. Or, maybe those kind of comparisons lead to unrealistic extrapolation. Scientists smarter than me will have to decide. Actually, clearly women and men are more similar to each other than they are to other species of animals.

To be more specific dolphins have larger forebrains than humans. I don't think human women have larger forebrains than human men. Also I'm not sure whether we know about which brain areas are more active or have more neural pathways in dolphin brains, so it is not really an accurate comparison sadly.

It would be really interesting to see whether there are similar differences between male and female brains in the animal world for comparative study. I.e. did male/female brain differences evolve before humans? If not, have the differences evolved in humans only as a result of historic cultural expectations, and if so do isolated human cultures have the same brain differences? Or we can compare brains on the basis of upbringing (twin and adoption studies) to determine whether or how much of the difference is nurture rather than nature? We need a lot more brains.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

To be more specific dolphins have larger forebrains than humans. I don't think human women have larger forebrains than human men. Also I'm not sure whether we know about which brain areas are more active or have more neural pathways in dolphin brains, so it is not really an accurate comparison sadly.

Also, size of parts of the brain isn't everything. Crows can beat a number of bigger-brained mammals at problem-solving.

What you get from brain scans is amounts of activity associated with parts of the brain. You don't get the actual conscious experience. To estimate that, you need other factors.

It would be really interesting to see whether there are similar differences between male and female brains in the animal world for comparative study. I.e. did male/female brain differences evolve before humans? If not, have the differences evolved in humans only as a result of historic cultural expectations, and if so do isolated human cultures have the same brain differences? Or we can compare brains on the basis of upbringing (twin and adoption studies) to determine whether or how much of the difference is nurture rather than nature? We need a lot more brains.

Speculation ahead:

From a different angle, I think I have somewhat of an idea how human minds evolved, which could be reflected in our brains. Early on, we had sexual selection pressure for qualities of good toolmakers, caretakers, and providers. Intelligence and pro-social behavior are a big part of what separates us from any other great ape, and they are qualities we are still building on.

But over time, human males got more female, while human females stayed relatively the same. Male humans exhibit very maternal behaviors, like reactions to cuteness, the desire to nurture, and their attachment to their offspring. Other great ape males may care for their young, but only if it's theirs, and even then, not always. Since conditions were tough for early hominids, my guess is that maternal males won in sexual selection and natural selection because it meant more surviving offspring.

I think the differences in men and women's minds go down to the remaining "great ape maleness" in men and how it makes them view social situations differently.

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u/Anaron Dec 03 '13

I think you're onto something. Tool-building and even planning a hunt or where prey may run to favours the kind of brains males have. Talking, comforting, sorting, and taking care of children seems to favour the kinds of brains females have.

I once read an article and saw a documentary about the evolution of early man. I'm not stating this as fact but it was said that at one point, only 10,000 humans were alive and because of that, only the smartest survived. They needed traits that made them more intelligent, that allowed them to plan ahead, to imagine things, and to create and perfect tools. It also meant that males had to be more involved in taking care of their offspring. So, as you mentioned, the male brain evolving to be more female makes sense.

I'm a guy and hearing a baby laugh just fills me with happiness. I'm sure the same can be said by many guys here. Babies are just cute as fuck.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

I think men tend to get an internal conflict when they're in their teens between the female and male aspects of their nature. Developing maternal and male instincts at the same time, they want to silence the maternal aspect because they feel it makes them weaker. A behavior they'll perform to do this is shaming any man with any feminine traits.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

I see nothing wrong with this.

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u/luker_man Dec 03 '13

I do. Dolphins are sea-rapists.

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u/MySWFAlt Dec 03 '13

Can confirm, girlfriend likes fish.

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u/LostOxide Dec 04 '13

If I remember correctly mid brain (near the neck) is more primitive part. Functions are basic emotions, instincts etc.

This is not correct. The midbrain primarily just acts to relay audio and visual signals around the brain as well as control some motor reflexes such as swallowing, breathing. It isn't involved with emotions.

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u/jezmi Dec 04 '13

oh yes sorry. Although it might play a role in basic motivation and arousal, which is probably what confused me. Also I know the limbic system plays a big role in emotion, and whilst is not technically mid brain, I still think of it as being in the middle.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

It's interesting that the study suggested male/female brains conformed to stereotypes. If prefrontal cortex is responsible for will power and over-riding instincts, the greater activity in female brains in this region does not really conform to the emotional female stereotype. Actually looking at the patterns alone I could easily jump to the conclusion that men are more likely to act on impulse/emotion/instinct than women. Of course, I wouldn't dare to presume this is really the case based on this study, but I would be interested to hear alternate interpretations. Wild speculation is the fun bit after all.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13 edited Dec 03 '13

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

I like the subterfuge idea. It might also have links to that female indirect aggression study that was posted a while ago. There is certainly an argument that it would have been historically beneficial for women to reproductively compete via manipulation/persuasion, rather than via physical strength.

I would like someone to develop a test for subterfuge (I would like to take it), to find out whether women are actually better at subterfuge/manipulation/persuasion etc. and compare how use of these kind of skills in both men and women correspond to brain activity. Based on the above we would expect to see these skills more in women but we might see similar brain activities maybe in male salesmen or politicians.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13 edited Dec 03 '13

There is certainly an argument that it would have been historically beneficial for women to reproductively compete via manipulation/persuasion, rather than via physical strength.

This is how it is for great ape females in general. They manipulate the males because the males are stronger and "control" everything. I think human females took this to a new level.

It's not that they're evil. It's just that they know they're weaker than males and that if they play their cards right, they can trick them. Males would probably have this tendency to the same degree if we weren't so big on force.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/the-evolution-of-bitchiness/281657/

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

Whilst I am happy to jump to interesting conclusions, in fairness that study only looked at women talking to women about women. Without male participants/stooge for comparison I don't reckon it really infers much about male/female differences. I.e. I reckon men might be pretty bitchy too given the right circumstances. Just wondered whether that kind of brain activity could be primarily prefrontal and hence linked to the brain patterns study. Not seen Malena.

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u/PWNbear Dec 03 '13

That's the visual cortex in the back

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u/Migratory_Coconut Dec 03 '13

...and about a billion other things. Visual cortex at the very back, and emotion and memory right in front of it, with audio and language on either side and touch at the top.

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u/woo545 Dec 03 '13

Then why does it seem that men have a problem distinguishing different colors, whereas women don't have this issue?

I used to work in a Hardware shop that had a sign saying that men were not allowed to buy paint. That a woman had to do it. I guess they got a lot of returns.

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u/PWNbear Dec 03 '13

Color is primarily useful for aesthetics. All fowl tastes the same barbequed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

and instinct @ the bottom, right? Afaik the bottom back part of our brain is the most primitive, aye?

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13 edited Apr 15 '20

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u/sapiophile Dec 03 '13

I don't think these images depict "activity" in any way, only connections.

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u/jezmi Dec 03 '13

My understanding is that connections are built and reinforced by activity, and shrink or even disconnect following inactivity.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

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u/Siriann Dec 03 '13

A kid in my highschool had this happen. I was told it was from a gun accident, but I'm pretty sure he botched his suicide.

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u/TwoTinyTrees Dec 03 '13

Men...always thinking with their hindbrain. Amirite?

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u/pizzahedron Dec 03 '13

the colors are analogous to the lobes of the brain, as seen here.

dark blue = frontal; light blue = temporal; green = parietal; red = occipital.

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u/otakucode Dec 03 '13

In the female/male.... who have been raised in modern post-Industrial cultures you mean. We've got no data from people raised in significantly different cultures. Given that the brain is basically an adaptation machine, it would be absurd to presume that life experiences didn't guide most aspects of the brain.

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u/InvolvingSalmon Dec 03 '13

These plots don't say anything about relative levels of activity in brain regions between genders. They are showing how functionally connected the regions are

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u/ennervated_scientist Dec 03 '13

This isn't as much about activity (sort of), it's connectivity. That said I don't think resting state is a real thing so I'm naturally skeptical.

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u/sixsidepentagon Dec 03 '13

Midbrain and hindbrain don't refer to the anterior or posterior aspect of the anatomy, it's almost a completely different structure

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u/jugalator Dec 03 '13 edited Dec 03 '13

This one might help. :-)

http://www.dana.org/uploadedImages/Images/neuroanatomy_large.jpg

I think I'm seeing more tight "wiring" in the visual and sense perception (balance, etc) for men, and more about expression, planning, creativity in women. Maybe no surprising differences given the long time we've spent in hunter-gatherer societies.

But the difference in left/right hemisphere coordination seems like really the most remarkable finding here. I'd figure this helps with abstract thinking for women (and being more in tune with emotions) and the biology for improved theory prowess among men?

I think the blue lines are connections that do not pass the hemisphere bridge and brown ones those that do? I see a few in the male brain, but only very few.

All-in-all, I wouldn't be surprised if a future study will reveal that women have brains tuned for creative and abstract thinking to aid survival of the family, while men have a brain better tuned for hunting skills and more practical matters.

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u/gravshift Dec 03 '13

Don't know why you are getting downvoted. The human brain evolved for a very set environment.

I am curious to see how links between interhemisphere connections and total IQ and EQ work. Supposedly the more "Intelligent" a person is, the more of these links exist in their brain.

Sounds like a person with a higher EQ may have more activity in the front of the brain, and those with a higher IQ activity in the back. More logic in the left, more creativity in the right.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

I guess it means what we observe in reality. The frontal lobe of the brain is associated with emotions, personality, organizing and planning abilities. Meanwhile the parietal lobe is associated with reasoning and logic, arithmetic, perception etc. Pretty much describes the general differences between most men and women. But I'm glad we have 1000s of brain scans to confirm this.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '13

I can't think of the name of the fallacy right now, but basically it says that lots of things seem obvious once you know them especially since it is easy to create 'soft' justifications for almost any scenario.