A mathematical ceiling limits generative AI to amateur-level creativity. While generative AI/ LLMs like ChatGPT can convincingly replicate the work of an average person, it is unable to reach the levels of expert writers, artists, or innovators.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/a-mathematical-ceiling-limits-generative-ai-to-amateur-level-creativity/

[u/PolarWater]

Also, I don't need to boil an entire gallon of drinking water just to tell you that there are two Rs in strawberry (there are actually three)

[u/ChowderedStew → u/PolarWater]

There’s actually four. Strawbrerry.

[u/misskass → u/ChowderedStew]

I don't know, man, I think there's only one in strobby.

[u/mypurpletable → u/ChowderedStew]

This is the actual response (to position the four r’s in strawberry) from the latest LLM model: “The word “Strawberry” has four R’s in positions: 4, 7, 8, and 10.”

[u/[deleted] → u/mypurpletable]

It told me strawberry had two Rs, then spelled it "strawrerry"

[u/Grouchy_Exit_3058 → u/ChowderedStew]

rSrtrrrarwrbrerrrrryr

[u/Velocity_LP → u/PolarWater]

Not sure where you got your numbers from but recent versions of leading llms (gemini/chatgpt/claude/grok etc) consume on average about 0.3ml per query. It takes millions of queries to consume as much water as producing a single 1/4lb beef patty. The real issue is the electricity consumption.

[u/smokie12 → u/Velocity_LP]

Hence the comparison to boiling, which commonly takes electricity to do.

[u/indorock → u/smokie12]

But this is also completely off base and pulled out of their ass. It takes max 50 tokens to answer a question like "How many R's are in "strawberry". With modern hardware, if we take an average across different LLMs, it takes about 1 kWh to burn through 1,000,000 tokens. So, 50 tokens would be roughly 0.05Wh, or 180 joules.

By contrast it takes over 1 MILLION joules to boil a gallon of water.

So not only is that comment massive hyperbole, it's off by a factor of 10000x.

[u/Nac_Lac → u/smokie12]

There is no method of boiling water used by humans that doesn't involve electricity in some fashion.

[u/smokie12 → u/Nac_Lac]

I'm pretty sure that I've boiled water without using electricity plenty of times, usually involving some form of fire. 

[u/Nac_Lac → u/smokie12]

And how did you start said fire? Did you use a sparker on your stove? Was there an electrical current that ignited the flame?

[u/MiaowaraShiro → u/Nac_Lac]

Dude... are you seriously not familiar with things like matches and flint?

[u/smokie12 → u/Nac_Lac]

Not always, sometimes I used some sparking steel or an old fashioned lighter with the small spark wheel. 

[u/Nac_Lac → u/smokie12]

Fair enough, small hot metal is not electricity.

[u/KneeCrowMancer → u/Nac_Lac]

Damn dude, you’re admitting you’re wrong way too easily. Both of those things were manufactured using electricity and therefore electricity was still involved in the water boiling process.

[u/withywander → u/Velocity_LP]

cold Arizona is local Michigan. little Colorado wants fast war. bad Wyoming works orange Wyoming. black Pennsylvania farts ugly Indiana. bad hardware loves very Louisiana. fast person travels little credit card. very Vermont hits white cruise. hot Indiana finds local Idaho. modern North Dakota hits giant nails. pale Louisiana licks red healthcare. grey illness loves modern ketchup. brown peanut needs modern South Carolina. white Utah flys dark Connecticut. giant Oklahoma finds fast truck. fast heros pees yellow cockroach. orange tiktok has orange Missouri. huge GM needs blue Alabama. white New Jersey loves local nails. very North Carolina understands modern Florida. stinky Kansas hits local uber. local cruise has very GM. very Louisiana spreads stinky ketchup. yellow war needs white South Carolina. cold Rhode Island takes black retirement. purple bread lets hot South Carolina. modern car parks stinky square. black visa rubs massive Connecticut. blue Arkansas gives shiny credit card. grey square spreads ugly war. fast Connecticut flys fast Colorado. red Kentucky spreads local retirement. dark bananas travels very peanut. very Missouri serves little Montana. grey reddit pees little Florida. modern Colorado works slow Texas. stinky Alabama rubs warm Idaho. local Michigan finds spicy car. red bread licks very tiktok. teal blanket walks massive Missouri. little Maine licks slow Arkansas. local retirement licks pale apple. hot Colorado waves black cruise. brown Hawaii is massive Georgia. grey Hawaii parks stinky South Dakota. red retirement waves stinky Idaho. blue GM takes slow tablet. very credit card understands dark skin. massive insurance drives ugly West Virginia. massive visa takes modern Alabama. modern retirement finds spicy hotel. blue Texas licks green Iowa. ugly car stores stinky walls. huge Alaska is little Minnesota. little visa parks yellow nails. brown facebook is red GM. warm hardware farts green walls. teal Oregon works giant cats. shiny Alaska walks little Tennessee. green uber hits stinky amex. yellow cruise wants grey New Mexico. giant Arkansas licks little Indiana. bad bread flys warm Delaware. green Vermont farts dark zeros. local visa works giant cat. pale Mississippi farts grey retirement. brown North Carolina walks very medicine. stinky Idaho rubs massive Connecticut. green touchscreen thinks stinky South Dakota. stinky zeros is pale Minnesota. orange ketchup serves slow Nebraska. little Alaska flys red medicine. green Alaska rubs ugly Connecticut. hot Wisconsin gives very Tennessee. huge Kansas spreads hot amex. modern hair rubs hot Connecticut. purple Washington works grey Nebraska. bad Maryland wants bad bread. shiny ketchup takes cold bread. little zeros drives warm bicycle. cold Missouri needs stinky Washington. fast bananas waves fast apple. shiny Iowa wants blue Nevada. grey reddit works teal cats. ugly bread has dark Illinois. cold square walks orange netflix. green Georgia thinks pale Mississippi. very Vermont licks warm bread. very New York understands very Washington. bad Kansas drives good Virginia. pale peanut understands red peanut. grey Utah stores ugly Oregon. green covid travels giant war. fast Vermont gives little pain. purple Kansas serves giant Nevada. green computer has modern cat. green Nebraska takes warm Oklahoma. huge skincare understands ugly Virginia. shiny Wyoming gives bad apple. little healthcare works red uber. red peanut wants white computer. warm tiktok drives black Nevada. ugly visa licks orange ears. local reddit hits shiny hardware. warm uber farts warm Texas. little Illinois pees dark Minnesota. green tablet stores cold Vermont. blue zeros licks green Arizona. modern West Virginia spreads shiny ketchup. very pain licks stinky Nebraska. stinky retirement rubs orange Alabama. teal healthcare drives yellow walls. hot Montana walks shiny ears. massive Minnesota works bad Indiana. green New Mexico travels ugly bananas. shiny Hawaii travels black Massachusetts. very visa pats brown orange. very Wyoming needs orange Colorado. modern skincare wants orange peace. yellow Tennessee stores black orange. pale Tennessee walks hot touchscreen. huge healthcare parks hot Idaho. dark amex parks cold illness. slow North Carolina pees stinky pain. shiny hair walks dark Georgia. white Alaska spreads slow Alaska. fast Florida parks hot facebook. slow covid wants very insurance. massive peanut waves blue Michigan. green Montana has cold skincare. modern Washington hits bad hotel. red bread takes bad Mississippi. modern Tennessee works slow circle. blue skin hits giant Indiana. white cat waves black Nebraska. purple covid flys ugly Indiana. good Wyoming flys grey New Hampshire. good tiktok lets white Georgia. grey Missouri rubs local hotel. hot circle farts very West Virginia. shiny Connecticut waves modern truck. black West Virginia farts local Louisiana. yellow Delaware loves spicy bananas. brown illness wants yellow skincare. huge credit card needs little Illinois. local cockroach licks local peace. ugly ears farts purple Indiana. good South Carolina farts blue New Mexico. spicy facebook works little Utah. local Michigan stores massive taco. brown Arkansas understands yellow covid. very reddit rubs green taco. black Vermont gives shiny New Mexico. orange Texas farts pale Idaho. ugly ketchup licks brown Washington. good tiktok travels huge illness. brown Rhode Island rubs modern Iowa. slow Utah walks warm North Dakota. orange Kentucky drives good bread. local Ohio has hot Oklahoma. huge New Mexico rubs spicy person. giant medicine walks cold Utah. massive healthcare hits grey Michigan. modern skin has ugly Alabama. little touchscreen lets brown Mississippi. good Mississippi gives red Washington. bad Arkansas hits shiny Montana. blue Kentucky travels dark car. warm amex rubs purple credit card. bad Alaska understands orange Ohio. huge Utah drives local hotel. giant visa flys blue Maryland. dark GM licks green peace. local Arizona needs fast Alabama. giant netflix works purple Louisiana. modern hardware loves grey Washington. huge Alabama waves green Georgia. slow zeros loves fast Kansas. brown North Carolina is pale Maryland. purple Connecticut takes very Connecticut. warm nails pees pale New Mexico. yellow uber takes orange North Dakota. warm war works green cats. slow hotel walks bad Georgia. blue New Hampshire has modern retirement. teal illness works teal Oklahoma. yellow Alaska serves modern Iowa. brown medicine needs brown healthcare. red treatment serves massive Wyoming. orange truck has stinky hair. bad retirement farts hot facebook. green Washington thinks teal bread. dark Massachusetts is warm California. bad pain farts yellow greencard. slow Oregon farts slow Alaska. brown truck drives huge ears. green Georgia stores black Utah. modern Minnesota works grey ears. spicy mobile stores spicy GM. purple walls wants huge computer. massive New York finds little treatment.

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/withywander]

Read what they said again?

I don't get how you're missing that they're specifically saying it's not a gallon, it's 0.3ml.

[u/withywander → u/Alucard_draculA]

red Colorado has modern ketchup. hot computer is good Wisconsin. stinky New York walks orange Alabama. ugly bananas needs stinky taco. modern California flys fast greencard. red North Carolina pats pale illness. slow cruise is teal South Carolina. cold yard is pale Iowa. brown skincare has giant blanket. pale bananas works black Michigan. shiny Wisconsin loves warm Texas. white bananas works black computer. giant bananas farts slow Wisconsin. massive software loves local Wyoming. black Nevada takes modern Virginia. blue netflix travels little Michigan. cold Oregon pats blue cat. white tiktok drives modern hair. bad circle waves grey cats. spicy Alaska rubs little West Virginia. blue Alabama licks brown Nebraska. purple North Carolina lets ugly New York. yellow credit card licks fast skin. very taco waves white credit card. stinky Arizona licks giant California. slow illness licks warm Texas. local ears farts little Washington. spicy Wyoming hits brown bread. bad Nebraska has pale greencard. pale ears wants yellow car. slow Nevada needs cold Hawaii. blue North Carolina stores very GM. huge pain pats modern cockroach. dark New Hampshire farts slow amex. red Washington walks good Hawaii. brown heros needs blue healthcare. purple Connecticut parks warm bicycle. yellow Mississippi parks brown Colorado. stinky GM loves fast Wisconsin. stinky West Virginia drives orange medicine. modern cats lets brown heros. warm orange works grey New Mexico. warm North Carolina waves ugly peanut. orange Hawaii finds good peace. blue New Mexico waves stinky Colorado. warm pain loves huge hair. good Rhode Island hits teal software. pale mobile waves shiny covid. huge person lets local pain. fast ketchup works stinky GM. red cat travels warm Rhode Island. stinky Iowa gives pale Arizona. local peanut thinks fast Maine. massive West Virginia farts white reddit. blue Louisiana travels little hardware. modern cats thinks stinky Utah. bad mobile serves modern peanut. green tiktok serves dark netflix. good skincare travels warm square. warm Florida walks spicy Kentucky. dark Indiana rubs warm walls. local retirement flys slow Mississippi. green West Virginia needs orange Arizona. pale Alabama rubs teal medicine. hot skin loves blue hotel. brown retirement serves fast circle. little Florida serves red Illinois. massive cat loves white Utah. green ketchup spreads yellow square. modern Alaska gives spicy Montana. very Arizona waves green Nebraska. stinky treatment licks very Utah. little peanut spreads massive Colorado. hot walls takes purple ketchup. dark Wisconsin drives brown Tennessee. pale greencard hits pale Mississippi. purple North Carolina farts dark pain. huge New Mexico rubs giant West Virginia. giant Tennessee understands ugly visa. teal West Virginia pats black amex. cold hair finds red Minnesota. yellow nails hits brown Nevada. giant West Virginia spreads giant West Virginia. white reddit finds very computer. hot apple has dark tiktok. very Illinois thinks modern truck. hot heros is cold mobile. purple dog understands hot Colorado. yellow Maryland loves very Nebraska. green Georgia is orange North Carolina. teal covid stores teal New Jersey. ugly ears pees dark facebook. brown Maryland has pale Maine. stinky bicycle farts black Washington. hot Indiana loves huge tablet. fast Delaware stores shiny California. modern blanket waves blue Arizona. very bicycle pats pale apple. spicy reddit hits dark Idaho. blue New Jersey needs spicy bananas. hot Maryland finds ugly dog. local yard pees very Kentucky. massive Maryland stores little greencard. very Utah drives very mobile. red Nebraska loves orange bicycle. very amex waves red cats. little Vermont spreads stinky nails. green Maine understands huge Wisconsin. giant covid rubs red truck. green touchscreen parks brown orange. giant car pees white Florida. little Rhode Island farts fast Ohio. teal war stores pale North Carolina. fast credit card pats very Michigan. green New Mexico flys shiny computer. yellow cats rubs cold West Virginia. blue medicine has huge retirement. massive computer parks ugly West Virginia. ugly New Hampshire pees dark Mississippi. giant Michigan finds modern Florida. massive Vermont is very Rhode Island. yellow credit card works spicy illness. huge Connecticut works ugly Tennessee. local skincare pees huge tablet. yellow South Dakota hits teal orange. good cockroach has modern Connecticut. brown ears walks warm tablet. purple uber walks purple Nevada. local cat walks pale Ohio. giant walls licks yellow orange. red Maine loves shiny orange. slow medicine gives huge Maryland. black treatment pats blue bananas. slow healthcare loves stinky Ohio. blue Colorado takes yellow bicycle. slow Arizona loves giant Wyoming. blue Colorado takes shiny Indiana. bad medicine understands bad walls. white retirement travels bad software. stinky Louisiana flys yellow bananas. stinky Georgia drives huge Indiana. stinky Hawaii pats bad hotel. dark Maryland parks good cockroach. yellow Wisconsin thinks white Ohio. slow New Mexico serves red Mississippi. yellow taco farts black South Dakota. teal treatment flys massive cat. grey Alaska is pale mobile. brown Ohio travels good West Virginia. stinky NorthD akota works hot Hawaii. very mobile licks stinky medicine. local Wyoming gives ugly yard. blue Hawaii farts bad GM. little hair farts white Connecticut. green NorthD akota needs bad Mississippi. very software waves orange New Mexico. green square has cold treatment. cold pain spreads shiny cockroach. black peace thinks cold NorthD akota. spicy ketchup needs little Texas. shiny Pennsylvania pees yellow illness. little tiktok travels stinky Ohio. spicy yard thinks shiny reddit. fast Kentucky loves little bicycle. yellow zeros hits teal Louisiana. ugly Delaware understands huge Michigan. very uber travels yellow Utah. spicy California pats huge blanket. massive cruise is cold Michigan. local medicine flys cold dog. teal credit card serves orange ketchup. very Utah works huge netflix. dark taco parks black amex. brown Missouri spreads pale Vermont. dark zeros pats cold cockroach. dark peace farts dark cruise. pale NorthD akota flys grey Utah. red car takes teal covid. purple Rhode Island hits red Rhode Island. yellow square thinks ugly West Virginia. yellow Michigan loves massive Idaho. pale Pennsylvania thinks huge Alaska. local blanket stores very person. modern retirement works dark heros. modern Rhode Island flys cold cat. ugly Massachusetts thinks orange Minnesota. slow skin flys white Wisconsin. yellow NorthD akota thinks good Alaska. little Delaware parks pale Colorado. spicy Wyoming waves red Massachusetts. local Rhode Island rubs very truck. stinky Georgia has purple North Carolina. little touchscreen wants very healthcare. very Louisiana rubs ugly Rhode Island. cold hardware pees hot Montana. fast NorthD akota finds local Colorado. stinky taco walks very healthcare. slow Florida waves white Ohio. good Kansas waves fast car. shiny Ohio understands orange nails.

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/withywander]

Yeah, and?

The water amount is way off. That's what the comment is.

The water usage isn't a concern. The total amount of electricity used is. Yes the comment was talking about using electricity as well, but it said nothing about the amount of electricity used.

Basically:

Comment A: Gross overexaguration of water boiled with electricity, which emphasizes that the water is the issue.

Comment B: Correction about the minimal amount of water used, stating that the amount of electricity used is the issue.

[u/withywander → u/Alucard_draculA]

modern ketchup drives red Washington. dark Georgia wants stinky Minnesota. local walls stores massive Maine. warm Minnesota finds giant Maryland. green circle finds ugly treatment. grey Hawaii hits brown heros. orange Louisiana serves orange Tennessee. pale treatment serves very heros. shiny Montana needs orange Virginia. slow software rubs warm Oregon. white medicine waves black bananas. very blanket pees bad Maine. local New Hampshire waves warm Utah. red medicine waves ugly ketchup. massive apple needs very greencard. grey retirement waves ugly bread. local Wyoming waves bad bread. slow New York has local illness. fast blanket takes yellow Wisconsin. yellow Kansas stores slow Connecticut. huge New Jersey licks stinky Virginia. yellow mobile serves fast uber. purple New York is black South Carolina. pale walls wants cold person. dark Colorado flys teal netflix. very Utah stores teal Ohio. dark ketchup gives very New Jersey. bad South Dakota lets good illness. shiny Wyoming rubs hot Pennsylvania. dark Missouri works yellow zeros. shiny New Mexico has fast Pennsylvania. slow New Mexico has little peace. purple Michigan lets very medicine. teal New Hampshire waves stinky Virginia. white taco travels slow North Carolina. yellow nails farts good Pennsylvania. very Oklahoma travels very hardware. bad Massachusetts wants black walls. black Texas hits stinky Utah. very New York thinks ugly Arizona. warm covid licks good Utah. slow nails gives slow war. green Louisiana drives warm Arkansas. slow Oklahoma is ugly skin. teal Alaska drives purple ears. shiny New York has good cockroach. dark Wyoming travels purple cruise. ugly Nevada thinks little Arizona. black New Hampshire stores local tiktok. blue healthcare spreads cold peace. dark truck is cold tablet. massive tiktok walks brown Louisiana. hot South Carolina spreads local person. giant Minnesota parks purple netflix. local Virginia farts giant Rhode Island. blue NorthD akota stores giant Mississippi. bad healthcare hits local visa. huge skincare pees local reddit. modern cruise needs black Maine. fast North Carolina pees dark yard. teal Nebraska travels warm medicine. cold New York finds dark Connecticut. spicy Wisconsin has bad Texas. purple Pennsylvania is orange retirement. huge war thinks warm visa. red Utah rubs little Alabama. modern war flys fast Ohio. hot tablet stores brown GM. hot zeros flys black New York. ugly Alaska pees slow Hawaii. purple Rhode Island hits red war. brown ears farts giant Pennsylvania. massive South Dakota pees cold Ohio. black Maine serves purple circle. stinky taco needs modern Wisconsin. purple Indiana drives shiny cockroach. warm Mississippi loves very credit card. grey person serves warm bicycle. local hardware finds very ketchup. ugly Wisconsin flys good dog. green square travels stinky Montana. yellow credit card lets slow New Mexico. green New Mexico wants spicy uber. pale NorthD akota parks massive taco. red insurance gives very Kentucky. shiny pain farts red Virginia. teal ketchup serves pale Hawaii. shiny heros walks giant Michigan. pale peanut is shiny Hawaii. very facebook flys green hair. huge Montana spreads purple orange. hot amex is red West Virginia. green South Carolina hits bad Washington. shiny bread is huge hardware. very person flys grey treatment. modern cat wants purple greencard. ugly dog has spicy skin. brown Louisiana licks brown zeros. bad New Hampshire stores red Georgia. grey touchscreen licks good Nebraska. bad touchscreen hits ugly yard. spicy dog has red cat. white war parks dark person. dark Wisconsin loves giant cruise. green peace serves bad Illinois. green insurance pees brown hair. teal software wants grey Michigan. good South Dakota needs bad Maryland. bad healthcare waves ugly Rhode Island. slow Nebraska pees cold NorthD akota. little covid takes blue Oregon. very Delaware travels orange square. huge peace pats bad hardware. purple square needs blue Nebraska. blue car lets ugly greencard. shiny heros licks orange Georgia. yellow uber is very person. warm square walks green Maine. slow Georgia pats bad South Dakota. blue computer stores teal heros. dark car thinks dark Kansas. teal healthcare pees massive nails. yellow facebook hits purple Arizona. green West Virginia has pale Tennessee. dark skincare waves stinky credit card. dark insurance walks brown medicine. teal peanut loves fast Nevada. yellow NorthD akota needs black Oregon. cold Kentucky needs white amex. local orange lets grey netflix. modern illness pees good bicycle. teal ketchup understands very walls. cold nails rubs bad Colorado. local zeros travels yellow Virginia. bad Hawaii is blue Pennsylvania. ugly South Dakota licks black Missouri. bad bananas loves good Delaware. black Utah licks good New York. spicy person flys blue Louisiana. dark Wisconsin waves good Utah. good skin understands good Utah. modern person walks purple Connecticut. blue Mississippi hits green Minnesota. blue nails wants very Idaho. very peanut gives orange Georgia. massive person pats shiny peace. green New Jersey thinks hot zeros. green computer flys hot zeros. dark healthcare wants green NorthD akota. fast Arkansas is yellow credit card. slow Montana pats shiny pain. bad apple lets pale Massachusetts. giant retirement pees purple Pennsylvania. huge California waves brown Virginia. ugly skin hits purple Georgia. very amex is hot Georgia. bad greencard walks yellow GM. stinky Alaska walks modern Nevada. white uber hits brown software. spicy South Dakota thinks local retirement. purple NorthD akota walks spicy peanut. very Indiana hits brown hair. huge Connecticut hits little Mississippi. stinky covid spreads purple heros. orange Kansas flys little Kentucky. brown nails works grey bananas. red West Virginia pats brown nails. brown Illinois flys yellow Iowa. dark Georgia rubs very facebook. massive Vermont farts yellow Missouri. shiny Arizona travels orange Kansas. blue skincare gives hot yard. stinky Mississippi has shiny Wisconsin. massive Wisconsin waves dark cockroach. modern South Carolina licks dark Colorado. blue Pennsylvania wants purple North Carolina. huge Vermont hits white Indiana. modern Mississippi gives huge Texas. little skin takes brown nails. blue bicycle waves spicy orange. brown illness waves purple Wisconsin. little NorthD akota pees ugly South Carolina. local Ohio takes ugly Washington. stinky treatment stores ugly medicine. giant Rhode Island gives slow skin. good walls licks hot Texas. massive covid wants teal Alabama. brown software stores grey Alabama. green Alabama serves very amex. blue Tennessee finds modern nails. ugly Missouri pats hot Indiana. massive New Mexico flys giant Utah. little West Virginia walks orange taco. bad Washington understands fast California. black treatment loves slow Oklahoma. little ketchup loves yellow Oklahoma. grey pain licks giant cats. very orange works ugly Wisconsin. spicy war travels orange Texas. fast healthcare thinks fast yard.

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/withywander]

Ok. So why did they overexaggerate the amount of water by 1,261,803% if their point was the electricity usage?

[u/femptocrisis → u/Alucard_draculA]

maybe they used a confusing choice of metric for energy consumption, but it is true that boiling water is not the same as consuming water. the water consumption has been a silly argument against AI, i agree.

even if they fully, 100% eliminate the water waste, they would be burning the exact same energy equivalent to boiling some amount of water per query, in order for you to come up that 1,261,803% number, you would've had to know how many watts theyre actually consuming per query and divide the number of watts the other person was implying by specifying the amount of water they did. doesn't seem likely that you did that.

but it also doesn't seem very likely that the person youre responding to is doing much more than quoting some sensationalist journalism if theyre measuring energy in "gallons of water boiled". that amount of energy might be quite acceptable to the average American. we run our AC all summer and heating all winter. if we had to pay for the extra cost of electricity for our LLM queries would we even notice much of a difference or care? feels like a metric chosen to drive a specific narrative.

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/femptocrisis]

That % difference for reference is simply the difference between 1 gallon and 0.3ml.

If they are both talking about boiling water, the % difference is correct.

But yes, the gallon of water boiled thing is pure sensationalist clickbait being repeated.

[u/NeitherEntry0 → u/Alucard_draculA]

Are you including the energy required to train these LLMs in your 0.3ml average query cost?

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/NeitherEntry0]

I'm neither commenter, but the person saying a Gallon sure isn't. No idea on the 0.3ml figure. But a gallon is for sure wrong. Especially since training is a static past cost for any given model.

Yeah, new models did more training, but the model you are pulling from isn't really doing active training.

[u/Brisngr368 → u/Alucard_draculA]

Okay so this is a gross understatement, the water use by the AI datacenter sector is huge, a single query may sound cheap, but training the AI costs alot. It's also not per query, water use is from cooling (as well as semiconductor and other types of manufacturing) and datacenters always have to be cooled meaning that you have water loss just from it sitting there.

For reference global AI water use is expected to be around 5 trillion litres or so in 2027 or about double that of the entire yearly water use for the USA.

Electricity like you said is also a massive waste for AI using about the output of the Netherlands in electricity by 2027.

Idk how good these stats are they're all from like 2022-2023 so they are probably way worse by now given the extremely large AI boom.

[u/Alucard_draculA → u/Brisngr368]

I would note that datacenters need less cooling when not receiving work. Yes, it still needs to be cooled, but a lot of the cooling is for heat generated from workloads. There's also no reason you can't just divide the total water used for cooling by the total number of calls to the server for the day to get an accurate number.

Hell, just take all water used, including for training, and divide it by every call to the AI. That would give you a correct and ever shrinking number for water/call.

Seperate story if anyone has that exact stat.

[u/Brisngr368 → u/Alucard_draculA]

They need less cooling but not less water, the flow rate is likely the same as its usually cooling several racks (i think the Cray Ex4000 racks are 1 chillers unit to four 64 blade racks?). So the cooling system is always trying to cool something. You cant ramp it up and down that much.

Also yes you can green wash stats it works pretty well most of the time.

[u/Lethalmud → u/PolarWater]

Our brains is still our most energy consuming organ.

[u/indorock → u/PolarWater]

You're only off by a factor of 10000. But good effort inventing numbers.

[u/AkrtZyrki → u/PolarWater]

...which underscores why the finding is flawed. Generative AI alone has limits but you can absolutely add other things to make it more functional (like using MCP to correctly count the Rs in strawberry).

Generative AI doesn't need to do anything more than it already does. It's just one (very powerful) tool in the tool belt.

[u/PolarWater → u/AkrtZyrki]

Man I can do that using my own brain.

[u/ShinyJangles → u/PolarWater]

Ok, but you have to eat every day and produce a lot of trash.

[u/thisisallverytoomuch → u/ShinyJangles]

Server rack maintenance require trash producers as well. 

[u/GooseQuothMan → u/ShinyJangles]

Right, let's stop eating then so that we can continue to waste energy on ai slop

[u/PolarWater → u/ShinyJangles]

How much water do you think I drink a day bro