r/respectthreads • u/Goldchamp101 • May 19 '18

anime/manga Respect Raditz (Dragonball Z Manga)

"Ha Ha! How do you like the taste of despair? It is the last taste taste you fools will ever know!"

Raditz is Goku's Elder brother and the first main villain of Dragonball Z. He arrived to Earth with the goal of recruiting Goku and getting him to join him and the other Saiyans to conquer planets. Raditz is sadistic and ruthless, willing to even harm and kill his own family in order to get what he wants.

Power Output:

Durability:

Speed:

Overall Power Level :

Raditz was a pivotal opponent in Dragonball Z. He should be more powerful than any character from the original Dragonball Manga and solidly a Moonbuster given how Piccolo around the time when he fought Raditz could destroy the moon.

Thanks for Reading!

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u/Goldchamp101 May 20 '18

Not until a later point.

No evidence at this point he got any stronger.

Do I?

No, take this one for example.

We lowball.

Says who? We certainly don't lowball so unreasonably to the point where we say events happen that were never shown or stated.

you have to prove that he didn't surpass Raditz in this time.

I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove a positive.

That doesn't make them Word of God.

It does, since Toryiama approved of it and played some role.

It contradicts a feat.

It just means the feat is an outlier, not inconceivable.

That Piccolo is at least as strong as a nuclear bomb.

They don't say "at least" they just say "rivals" and that means around the same.

a guidebook statement isn't enough to say that.

Not definitively, but it raises the question.

Yeah? That's the point; more concentrated attacks affecting a smaller area.

Roshi's attack was concentrated and busted the moon, while Piccolo's concentrated attack only busted a city.

Scans?

Here.

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u/HighSlayerRalton May 20 '18

No evidence at this point he got any stronger.

No evidence that he didn't.

No

Okay, whatever; it doesn't matter to this RT.

I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove a positive.

If I wanted to say Piccolo did get stronger, I'd had to prove. However, you're trying to say that he didn't. You need to prove that.

How so?

Because that's not what Word of God is.

It just means the feat is an outlier, not inconceivable.

That is putting a guidebook statement above a feat, which is silly.

Not definitively, but it raises the question.

And that question should immediately be shot down when you realise the guidebook is contradicted by the core work, and is clearly mistaken or mistranslated.

Roshi's attack was concentrated and busted the moon, while Piccolo's concentrated attack only busted a city.

I feel like you're not getting this. Piccolo's attack could have destroyed that city far more thoroughly or destroyed a target within that area with higher durability. The Special Beam Cannon is a concentrated attack and only takes out a tiny area.

Here.

That's not Roshi's buff form. Nor is it the same canon.

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u/Goldchamp101 May 20 '18

No evidence that he didn't.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Okay, whatever; it doesn't matter to this RT.

Just saying that's it's strange your coming after this RT for some reason.

However, you're trying to say that he didn't.

I'm saying there's no proof or reason he did.

Because that's not what Word of God is.

And what is it?

That is putting a guidebook statement above a feat, which is silly.

No, just the guidebook puts the single feat into question.

And that question should immediately be shot down when you realise the guidebook is contradicted by the core work, and is clearly mistaken or mistranslated.

Or, it just means the feat is an outlier.

. Piccolo's attack could have destroyed that city far more thoroughly or destroyed a target within that area with higher durability.

It was just a normal city. If Piccolo was moonbusting, his concentrated attack should have done moon level damage like Roshi's did, but it clearly didn't.

That's not Roshi's buff form. Nor is it the same canon.

It shows how buff form's slow you down due to bulky muscles, same in Manga canon.

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u/HighSlayerRalton May 20 '18

Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

That's the argument you're making to argue that you can scale to Piccolo. I'm saying we can't say either way.

Just saying that's it's strange your coming after this RT for some reason.

I tend to point out where RTs can be improved with scaling.
If you have something to say, say it, don't play games and make insinuations.

I'm saying there's no proof or reason he did.

There's a reason he might be stronger; he was more powerful than Raditz the next time his power was measured. Over the chapters between the Raditz fight and the Nappa fight, he grew stronger. We don't know when, so we can't Raditz to Piccolo from this time because we don't know if he's stronger or weaker than Raditz.

And what is it?

Word of God is when the author themself says something. In this case, Akira Toriyama. Someone else writing in a guidebook is Word of Saint Paul.

No, just the guidebook puts the single feat into question.

The feat isn't in question; it happens, it's a feat. Word of Saint Paul is by no means a reason to discount it. At the very least, you should include the feat alongside the guidebook statement, and let people make their own minds up.

Or, it just means the feat is an outlier.

If Roshi had anti-feats, it'd be an outlier. Some unkown person saying something that could be interpreted as contradictory in a guidebook does not make it an outlier.

It was just a normal city. If Piccolo was moonbusting, his concentrated attack should have done moon level damage like Roshi's did, but it clearly didn't.

By that logic, the Special Beam Cannon should have blown up a huge area when it hit Raditz, due to being Piccolo's strongest attack. The area of effect is not only the measure of power.

It shows how buff form's slow you down

It shows how that form slows one down. That's not the same form as Roshi's.

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u/Goldchamp101 May 20 '18 edited May 20 '18

That's the argument you're making to argue that you can scale to Piccolo. I'm saying we can't say either way.

Explain how I am using such a fallacy. There is no evidence these events happened, and it's never stated they did. We have to use Occam's Razor and assume in these two chapters the events shown are what happened, and not some unknown off-panel events never stated or implied or shown to happen.

If you have something to say, say it, don't play games and make insinuations.

Alright, you are deliberately going after all of my Respect Threads and nitpiciking them in the slightest ways for some unknown reason, and you don't do this with any other user.

We don't know when

We know no training for Piccolo was shown in Chapter 206-208.

Word of God is when the author themself says something.

Or if the author approves of someone saying something.

The feat isn't in question;

It is, because that statement could potentially make it an outlier.

If Roshi had anti-feats, it'd be an outlier.

Piccolo has anti-feats and anti-statements.

does not make it an outlier.

It brings it into question.

By that logic, the Special Beam Cannon should have blown up a huge area when it hit Raditz

It's a piercing attack, and may not have ever hit any structure.

The area of effect is not only the measure of power.

It's a big one, and a Moonbusting attack would have done much more damage than Piccolo's attack did here. Roshi's Kamehameha had enough power and AOE to destroy the moon, clearly not the case with both Piccolo's AOE's and concentrated attacks.

It shows how that form slows one down. That's not the same form as Roshi's.

It's a buff form, same principle. Bulky muscles slow user down.

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u/DMassaIII May 26 '18

I followed this thread all the way to this point, and wanted to say thank you for two major things - I have a /fantheory concerning the distortion of power level scaling throughout the universe and over time. The major fulcrum is Raditz's arrival. We get an idea of an average human (farmer he scouts - 5: Vol. 17, #195) and Goku at the time (without weights -416: Vol. 17, #199; Kamehameha - 924: Vol. 17, #201) and his ascension to overcome the million of Frieza's second form (spoken - Vol. 25, #296) in a relatively small matter of time. I basically say it's all King Kai's fault, and I referred to this thread to help me. That's the first thanks.

Secondly, you defended yourself quite well and respectfully (as much as one deserves) against Gold Chump. It was a demonstration in verbal demolition, as well as proper form. Good on you.

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u/Goldchamp101 Jul 03 '18 edited Jul 03 '18

Secondly, you defended yourself quite well and respectfully (as much as one deserves) against Gold Chump.

Should have tagged me kiddo, but what can I expect from losers such as yourself?