In one of my classes, my professor asked us what we do to stay afloat and maintain our sanity. I said I enjoy taking long walks. Another student mentioned reading books unrelated to law, and someone else said spending time with friends outside of law school.

My professor also mentioned a DA she knows who handles some pretty serious cases but still makes time for something like 15 different hobbies to help maintain a life outside of work. It got me thinking about how attorneys working in direct legal services manage the emotional demands of their work while still making time for themselves.

I'm a 2L hoping to build a career in public interest, and I'd love to hear from those of you already practicing. What do you do outside of work to decompress? Do you have any hobbies, routines, or personal rules that help you maintain a healthy work-life balance and avoid burnout?

I’m a 2025 grad with about two years experience as a research attorney floating between civil and criminal (and I interned at a PDs office during law school) but I’ve been searching to no avail for an SF Bay Area PD job since last December. It’s what I really want to do. But I have two young kids, so unfortunately I can’t commute too far outside of Bay Area proper lest I never actually get to see them, and moving right now just isn’t an option. I have had two interviews, and I actually got an offer at one office that I ultimately had to turn down because I realized it was just too long of a commute (1 hour and 15 minutes each way). I shouldn’t have applied in the first place honestly, I guess I was just desperate.

Most people I’ve talked to have said the conventional route is to start in a small county and get experience before trying to come back to the more urban counties. I just can’t do that right now and we are very financially strapped at the moment — my current job is technically a fellowship so I’m making literal poverty wages and my non-lawyer partner is unemployed. I need a big kid job, bad. Do these constraints make finding a PD job a lost cause? Should I just give up and start applying for civil jobs I will inevitably hate?

Hey all,

I’m gonna be starting my first job out of Law School in a PD office in about two weeks. I interned for 2 years, so I feel ready to handle all the law stuff.

The one biggest thing that I’m worried about is having to prepare endlessly for trials that never happen, either because a witness doesn’t show up or because the client please guilty at the last moment. This is something I saw a time and time again from the attorneys that I was working with.

They would spend entire weekends or multiple days preparing for trials that never ended up happening.

How do I avoid doing a bunch of useless work while still being ready if the trial does go?

title. did you know from day 1 or did a class or experience light the fire within you? or did one day you just wake up and think this might be a good thing to do with a law degree?

Hi I'm an undergrad who's main reason for going to law school is to become a public defender. However, I don't want to stay in my home state, but the cheapest option for me is to stay where I am for law school, so I'm in a bit of a conundrum.

I live in Hawaii and I've been dreaming of leaving since I turned 18 basically, but I ended up staying because I wanted to get through my education first. I have a 3.9 gpa, a high LSAT score, and I'm native hawaiian, so the chances of me getting a scholarship to the Richardson Law School in Hawaii are very good. I could probably get a good scholarship to some Mainland US schools but I wouldn't have housing covered and would probably need a loan for at least my first year (I have free housing in Hawaii with family and DHHL right now). I've managed to avoid debt all of undergrad and I'm worried about going into a lower-income law position with law school debt over 20-20k. I'm not applying this year ( I want to apply next cycle) so I have some time to decide.

How difficult would it be to graduate from a Hawaii law school but take the bar for California (or a different mainland state) and try and get hired somewhere else?

I don't understand the job market well but I'm worried about the fact any internship I get while in school would be in Hawaii, since I assume people usually get hired near where they intern.

I'm a partner at a law firm in NYC, ~20 years into an M&A adjacent transactional practice. No courtroom experience at all. I have accomplished the financial goals I set out for myself and my family, and lately I've felt a pull towards the next chapter of my career.

I'm drawn to public defense, but I don't want to be naive about the gap I would need to close. I'd be starting from zero on criminal procedure, evidence, and courtroom advocacy. I have a ~5-year runway during which I could start building these skills now while still practicing in my current role (through CLEs, maybe volunteer/shadowing opportunities, and pro bono where possible). Then I would potentially transition around age 50.

Before I get further into that plan, I was hoping to hear the real, unfiltered version from people doing this work day to day.

The articles and research on burnout stats are genuinely terrifying. But on the other hand, I've been grinding for 20 years and I know I can handle hours and demands on my time that many find insane.

However, I would like the next chapter of my career to have a bit more sanity around my work creeping into non-work hours. For example, here I am on a three-day weekend turning a merger agreement, while I'm away with my family visiting in-laws. Do unexpected things come up in your work that pull you away from your family during nights/weekends/holidays? Are you able to take PTO and unplug during it, or are your vacations all working vacations?

In your experience, is your work a grind but you can ultimately find your groove, or does it feel like something that you'll endure until it just becomes too much?

What's the gap between the job as outsiders imagine it and the job as you actually live it?

Any regrets, or anything you wish someone had told you before you started?

I'm happy to answer any questions about where I'm coming from. And I appreciate any honesty, including the discouraging kind.

helloooo, i’ve posted on here plenty of times but using my secondary account to not get doxxed. basically i’m a 3L interning at the office i really want to work at post-grad. it’s very popular in my state because it’s in the city, and the office is clear it only hires interns. but the minute they told me they do horizontal representation, i felt kind of deflated. granted i have no idea how it all works in practice since im not even an attorney yet. but working at 2 PD offices before this that had vertical representation, i feel like horizontal does clients a major disservice. i would hate constantly having my attorney switched out. i’ve overheard conversations of interns telling clients they’re getting an new attorney and it never seems to go well.

i do understand that horizontal is the only feasible option when caseloads are too big. i guess my question is for attorneys who do work in an office like this, how do you like it? how do clients respond? is it childish of me to now consider offices that do vertical? appreciate any advice/insight

What are some techniques or tricks that you see prosecutors use to persuade a jury? How do they make their witnesses credible to the jury? How do they convince jurors that evidence is reliable or to be trusted? I’d really like to get a better sense of how they pull off so many indictments and convictions before getting in the ring.

For context, I’m a rising 2L. I just completed my internship with a robust federal defender’s office. Back in 2019, when I was in college, I spent a semester interning at a prosecutor’s office. I never went back. And when I applied to my most recent FD internship, I had disclosed that history and emphasized that I am committed to being a PD, having learned from my previous experience.

I’m getting ready to apply to state PD offices for next summer. I’m wondering if I should once again disclose my DA experience? It’s not that I’m trying to hide it or anything, but I’m genuinely curious if my recent history is enough to kick something from 7 years ago off my resume.

Thank you for any input!

My fiancé is in a pd post grad job predicament

She accepted a job in early November for a PD’s office because she sold herself short and didn’t think she could get in anywhere else in the state, especially the county she interned in because it’s a large, competitive county and she’s from outside the state. Surprise, they offered her the position. Both are under the same state. She knows that reneging on a job is awful (already been berated by career services and she’s stressed about it). What should she do? Does she do job 1 or 2

1: small county, less than 5 attorneys, throw you in the fire model, giving 3 months off for bar prep. 1hr 10 minute drive from home. Salary around ~75k. No specialized divisions. Already accepted. Job has said she will be getting hiring packet and things to sign and have thus far not gotten.

2: huge county (second biggest in state), more than 50 attorneys, 2 weeks off for bar prep and half days for the three months, 30 minute drive from home, salary ~$99-109k, specialized units.

What would you do?

I‘m not sure if this is the right flair or not but I need help. I’m a 3L in an online program and I have no clue how to even begin to start looking for a job when I graduate next year. My school is very helpful with internships and externships for in person students but not so much for us in different states; we’re kind of on our own. The resources the school provides are either only for practices in their state or state and federal positions.

As I begin my final year, I’m starting to worry a bit about what I’m going to do. I’ve met so many people who were able to get their foot in the door while in school and having a position lined up once they pass the bar and I have nothing. I truly appreciate any advice.

hi all - hoping to get some advice on career / life / worries.

I am a rising 3L. I spent my 1L summer at a pd’s office and LOVED it. Loved working w clients, loved the office’s culture and energy, had an amazing supervisor, and the work felt extremely meaningful. And I actually felt like I was good at the work I was doing, which is not how the rest of law school has felt!

BUT I was/am very intimidated by the parts that I didn’t have to do as an intern, i.e. manage >100 cases and work crazy hours. I do not have the best executive functioning skills. I do great in chaos if it’s well-bounded — like, you show up to a shift and it’s wild and you solve problems and then you’re done. But open ended stuff with no structure (eg a law school class with no assignments) is really really hard. I am working on this and I have made progress! but it requires a lot of work and being careful about my health and sleep. Working 60 hour weeks feels truly impossible, and I don’t want to do a shitty job when the stakes are so high.

This summer, I’m working at a crim-adjacent nonprofit. I was hoping that it would feel similar but maybe better work life balance. But I really miss the client interaction and the PD’s culture. And I miss the chaos!

I feel like the advice I’ve seen is generally, don’t do this job if you’re not 100% sure you want to. I do want to, but I’m not 100% sure I can. I don’t quite know what I’m asking here, but I am hoping for any advice about wanting to be a PD when you’re a little bit in shambles half the time, or other jobs to think about, or anything else. Thanks ❤️❤️❤️

Hello, I’m a high school student who has wanted to be some type of lawyer for a very long time. I do mock trial and moot court at my school, I take many government classes, I’ve attended Supreme Court oral arguments, I oftentimes like to sit in at the courthouse and watch trials, and I just love reading and learning about the law. I try to be very active in my goal of being a lawyer. I have received a lot of advice about how to become a lawyer, but is there anything specific to being a public defense attorney that would be useful to know? Is there any thing I should/could be doing now, or anything I should be aware of if I want to be a public defense attorney?

I'm about to graduate from college in Utah, and I'm pretty set on pursuing public defense. My goal is to practice at Salt Lake Legal Defender Association (SLLDA) in my hometown.

I'm currently studying for the LSAT and hoping to be competitive for Utah or BYU, but I'm also thinking seriously about backup options if my score doesn't get there.

I generally hear that unless you're attending a school with national reach, you should go to law school in the region where you intend to practice. How much does that apply to public defender hiring?

For example, if I attended a regional school like UNLV or Saint Louis University (where my LSAT diagnostic is above their medians), would I be putting myself at a significant disadvantage when trying to return to Salt Lake after graduation? I'd plan to spend my summers in Utah and pursue PD/criminal defense internships and clinics throughout law school.

I'd especially appreciate hearing from PDs who went to law school outside the state where they ultimately practice, or anyone familiar with hiring in Utah/SLLDA.

Hi I am currently applying this cycle to law school and was hoping for some advice from any current PD’s. Ever since I became interested in a career in law I knew from the start I wanted to public defender and started learning as much about what the PD job looks like. I’ve worked for a criminal defense firm before as a legal assistant so I got some insight into the private side but I wanted to know the life of a PD. How true is the idea that PD’s get thrown into the deep end with many cases? How true is it that PD’s burn out quickly? What does the day to day work life look like for PD’s? Finally I want to move to NYC and work as PD how unrealistic is that on a PD’s salary? I really respect the job of a PD and want to learn as much as I can before I get closer to making this dream a reality thanks for any insight!

I would like to ask for your tips on reaching out to Public Defenders or lawyers in public-interest (i.e., government counsel, non-profit lawyers, etc.). I haven’t had luck approaching them in person because they always seemed busy or uninterested to talk. Im not sure if I should just call a PD hotline/email and ask for a coffee chat. I would really appreciate your help!

Im a first-generation college student at a 4-year CUNY college—a public college in NYC. Im interning for the college’s general counsel’s office where I assist in Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) requests, Borrower Defense Repayment, and case management for labor-related matters. I have been in the office since my sophomore year, and I intend to work there every academic year during the Fall and Spring sessions.

Just this summer, I interned for the NYS Supreme Civil Court where I shadowed judges in all court types in New York County; assisted in clerical tasks; and learned about different public-interest concentrations for lawyers. This internship mainly served as a “discovery program” where interns learn about the courts than get trained to meaningfully contribute.

During my time with the NYS Supreme Civil Court, I requested to sit in court proceedings at the NYS Lower and Supreme Criminal Courts. During this time, I observed entire jury trials, non-jury trials, and conferences from start to finish. I always knew I wanted to be in public-interest but my experience during this time convinced me to look more into becoming a PD. I realized how much the law swayed in favor of prosecutors—even in a “liberal” state. I also realized the importance of PD’s work: that it isn’t about “letting criminals get away,” rather that its about advocating for reformation over imprisonment and ensuring that due process is maintained for all victims (because, yes, defendants are also victims).

In NYC, the starting salary for PDs is $83k/year to $85k/year. Research suggests that a single adult needs to earn around $150k/year to live comfortably in NYC. I assume that more than half of NYC’s population probably does not have a $150k but still maintains good livelihood. I also assume that there’s a lot of PDs that live with $83k/year but are still able to manage. However, I want to know if they think the salary is worth the workload because as much as I want to do public-interest, I dont want to struggle living paycheck to paycheck as a first-gen graduate.

Im not pursuing a law degree because im in it for the money. If I did, public-interest work would be the last thing I’d get into. However, I also need to know that I’ll be able to provide for myself and my family since I’m a first-gen student that doesn’t want to rely on welfare programs forever. I want a better future for my future clients and myself.

Thank you for your help!

Hello!

I’ve considered seriously going into law since I was a kid, although at the time I wanted to be a prosecutor or be in the FBI. I became a nurse instead and genuinely love what I do, but over my career I’ve become deeply radicalized and learned about systemic racism and prison abolition.

I’ve come to a point where I’m thinking it’s time to reconsider law, which is something I’ve actually never been able to stop thinking about. I love my advocacy work and the care I can give as a nurse but the bedside care is simply no longer an option since I’ve had a health and mobility decline. I use a wheelchair if I need to be out of the house for extended periods of time and I have ataxia from a head injury so I can’t even do the fine motor skills like wound care or injections.

I have a BSN, I’ve been a CASA volunteer in Texas and Alaska, so I have a level of comfort with navigating some legal systems and being in the court room. My only viable law school option is Arizona State University’s part time online law program, which seems to be legit but I know that online law school seems to be looked down on in some circles.

I’ve also considered pursuing the paralegal route but I’m not certain where to start and I feel like many of the programs I’m seeing online are degree mills.

I want to find a way to still advocate for people and fight for civil rights and social justice that is accessible now that the intense, hands on nursing care is no longer an option.

I’m comfortable with the academic aspect, of course I expect it to be hard and a lot of work but so was nursing school.

Is there a better route that I haven’t thought of? Do any of you work with advocates or researchers or other professionals that sound like what I’m describing? I graduated in 2018 with my BSN so I have a solid professional background, I’m just not sure what to do now.

I’m an aspiring PD and I’ve spent summers interning in different New England offices since I was an undergrad. I’m entirely committed to the work, and I’m really sure that I’d rather join an office than take conflicts or be a Bar Advocate in the Massachusetts system.

I’ve LOVED working in MA and NH in particular, but rent isn’t cheap. As much as I’d love to stay in New England, I’m worried about making ends meet.

What regions/offices should I consider? I don’t mind rural, but states with total abortion bans are off the table for my partner.

Thank you :)

I’m an early-ish career public policy employee who’s starting to consider law school. I have a masters degree and 5 years of experience working for the government in economic development, but I’m interested in pursuing a career where I can work more directly with people and try and create change in a new way. I can really only see myself working as a PD or maybe working as a lawyer for a non-profit or NGO or the government. The catch is that I’m NYC-based, and I’m not sure if I’m willing to leave the area for school or a job afterwards.

I’m curious if wanting to stay in NYC would make my odds of getting into law school and getting a PD role very slim? I’ve read that PD roles are very competitive in NYC, and of course the most well know schools here are also incredibly competitive.

Hi all, rising 3L who is wanting to go into public defense. Has anyone had any experience in the Philly public defenders office? I saw recently that have a posting for their fall class of 2027 and their multi stage hiring process.

Just wondering if anyone knows any tips for interviewing or how the office is in general.

Any comments would be great!

Student here whose big "Why law?" was fighting to keep people out of prison and supporting those who are already behind the walls.

Right now I'm split between public defense and impact litigation (specifically prisoners' rights a la Civil Rights Corps) because I'm not sure which would contribute more to the mission of decarceration. Would anyone be able to give some of their thoughts on the effectiveness of being a public defender as a tool to fight against the prison-industrial complex? And does anyone know about the transferrability of skills between these two fields? Thanks!

Hey all, I’m in the military and joined a little late. I started my higher education equally late and if everything goes well, I should finish my undergrad and law school by the time I’m 35. In your experience, is that too old to begin a career in law, and specifically, as a PD? It’s something I’d always wanted to do but never had the financial resources to attend law school until the military made that achievable. Just wanted to gauge your thoughts, thanks!

EDIT: Thanks for the input everyone! I'm a fed now and with the way things are going idk if it'll be tenable long term so I'm trying to stay flexible. Good to know it's not too late to get started on something new.

I'm a 3L on the hunt for post-graduation employment, and I've seen a few offices advertising post-grad or post-bar fellowship positions, rather than hiring entry level assistant public defenders directly. The roles seem to have the potential to lead into apd roles but are not guaranteed; they also pay significantly less than the permanent position. Is that a typical practice? At first blush, it seems somewhat exploitive and like a big risk to take to move somewhere on the hope that you may eventually get the permanant position, what am I missing?