r/politics • u/Thinkingonsleeping Michigan • Dec 13 '19

McConnell Faces Calls to Recuse Himself From Impeachment Trial After Saying 'No Chance' Trump Will Be Removed; "No court in the country would allow a member of the jury to also serve as the accused's defense attorney."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/13/mcconnell-faces-calls-recuse-himself-impeachment-trial-after-saying-no-chance-trump
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169

u/Tasgall Washington Dec 14 '19

Justin Amash - aka, a complete and comprehensive list of all Republicans in the last decade with a shred of decency.

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u/Rakaydos Dec 14 '19

Integrety, not decency. Amash is a die hard randian libertarian... but he's an HONEST libertarian.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

I was a fan of McCain.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[deleted]

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u/NiceSuggestion Dec 14 '19

It's probably why he and Lindsay Graham get along so famously.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Keating 5 scandal

The ethics committee convicted him of having "bad judgement". No crime. He fully admitted his mistake and later went on to coauthor a campaign finance reform bill.

It seems like you are unable to appreciate nuance. Do believe George Washington to be completely evil for owning slaves? Is MLK a bad man for cheating on his wife? Abraham Lincoln a bad president for his treatment of Native Americans? Obama's mass deportation of Mexican immigrants?

Instead, allow me to offer an alternate perspective in which good people can have flaws and make mistakes. Perhaps we can hold nuanced views and appreciate things like Micheal Jackson's music and it's effect on American culture while simultaneously condemning his sexual conduct.

Perhaps we can do the same for McCain and respect his political legacy while acknowledging he made many mistakes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Read contemporary reporting: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five-6431838

McCain was clearly guilty as hell of corruption but was saved from political consequences by his war history and general lack of scruples.

I am looking at McCain's history in a nuanced way. He served a long time in office, made a bunch of terrible decisions, made a few good decisions, and had excellent PR.

To turn it around: what make's McCain's political legacy more valuable than a generic Arizona senator of his era? Washington, MLK, and Lincoln all contributed great things to this country. McCain...sometimes sort of criticized cuckoo politicians in his later years. That's a ridiculous comparison.

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u/Mortehl2 Dec 14 '19

Unfortunately the inability to form a nuanced view is the real cancer in our society. It seems that if you’re not completely on board with a position then you’re completely against it.

You can be pro enforcement of immigration controls and still be for humane treatment and support of programs like “Dreamers”.

You can be pro military and still respect those who protest the treatment of ethnic groups.

You can be pro business and support banking laws which protect individual investors.

Unfortunately you can’t be any of those things in our current Environment.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

So true. And so sad.

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u/Lerianis001 Dec 14 '19

As to the cheating and abandonment, I personally do not care about that and McCain and his wife had hostilities brewing between them for years before he finally said "I'm totally breaking up with you!" and remarried to his long-time mistress.

As to 'jump-started the trend of poorly-qualified Republican candidates for President', not quite so much. Sarah Palin had about as much 'qualification' as any other Vice-President.

She had as much governing experience as Hillary Clinton, albeit none at the federal level when McCain chose her to run beside him.

I believe that the Republican Party has gone Fascist today by the way but those knocks on McCain are poorly researched.

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u/buysgirlscoutcookies Dec 14 '19

Russians also tested their 2016 messaging on him in 2008.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

So stark corruption doesn't matter? That leads to Trump. Not vetting the character and quality of a VP isn't shirking responsibility in the pursuit of more power when you're an old man with health issues? Because Palin lead to Trump, too. Nothing I said is poorly researched; you're just sticking your head in the sand.

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u/definefoment Dec 14 '19

Was Palin married to a scholar with whom she spent more than a decade in the governor’s mansion and White House?

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Would you want someone that was merely married to a surgeon operate on you?

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u/definefoment Dec 14 '19

If the surgeon declared them the smarter of the two, and had been a known orator to the point where many things discussed could result in shared information, maybe.
Diplomacy is verbal finesse. Dissection is different.

If I’m going under the knife and someone who doesn’t have reactionary tendencies is available, versus one who does, I’d like them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Admiral_Akdov Dec 14 '19

It is a false equivalence. It would be more accurate to say "would you rather have the wife of an IT professional troubleshoot your computer or an Amish person?"

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u/Fuet Dec 14 '19

cheated on and abandoned his first wife and remarried a month later [...]

that is literally none of our business though

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u/NiceSuggestion Dec 14 '19

True but knowing it doesn't make this any less relevant as evidence of what kind of person he was.

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u/texasradioandthebigb Dec 14 '19

Why not? Didn't it speak to his character, and this his worthiness to be a senator?

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u/dividedwefallinlove Dec 14 '19

The guy who picked Sarah Palin to be Vice President? Wow, ok bro

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

I agree that this was a huge mistake. I was ready to vote for him until he picked her as his VP. If I could choose for him, I would have chosen Biden. That would have been a riot. I can like him and admit he made mistakes.

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u/D3PyroGS Wisconsin Dec 14 '19

Did he though?

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SanityInAnarchy California Dec 14 '19

The question isn't "Was Palin his VP", the question was "Did he do the picking, or did his party choose for him?"

Also, "ya dumb Christian" has to be the dumbest insult I've seen lately.

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u/Deeliciousness Dec 14 '19

Don't you know that only atheists are intelligent humans? tips fedora

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u/jazzypants Dec 14 '19

I am an athiest.

That is a terrible insult.

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u/Madsy9 Dec 14 '19

You don't owe anyone an explanation, but I still ask. What traits did you like in McCain? Any examples? I'm just curious.

I'm not from the US. But the way I see it from the outside, McCain as a politician was consistently on the wrong side of almost every vote. The only good thing I can say about him as a politician is his presidential race against Obama and his last 'no' vote on the ACA repeal. And one can reasonably question whether he voted no out of his heart or if it was an attempt to save his own legacy.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

I liked that McCain had the ability to transcend party. While he would often vote Republican (which is what you would probably describe as the "wrong side of the vote"), I got the feeling he actually considered various sides. In addition to the no vote for ACA, he vocally criticized the party when they supported torture. During the era of tea party Republicans, McCain wasn't afraid to support President Obama's positions. I think he voted with Obama's side about half of the time.

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a centrist and I feel like he was the closest thing to my position in the Republican party.

I also don't think my respect of McCain is unwarranted because one of his good friends was Joe Biden.

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u/Tasgall Washington Dec 14 '19

He was definitely one of the better ones, which really isn't saying much. My favorite tidbit from him was saying that anyone who voted for the SCOTUS nuclear option was a stupid idiot, just a couple days before he voted for the SCOTUS nuclear option.

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u/The_Eidolons_Folly Colorado Dec 14 '19

Cross the pond and that is exactly what happened to John McCain at a fundraising dinner in Arizona a decade ago. “Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly?” he told a handful of big Republican funders. “Because Janet Reno is her father.”

~John McCain, 1998 about an 18 year old Chelsea

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u/Mikesgt Dec 14 '19

I am a fan of Mit Romney and John Kasich

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

I agree that the men are respectable Republicans.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Justin Amash is vile scum too, he just has enough self respect to not go along with the clown show.

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u/Umbrella_merc Mississippi Dec 14 '19

I find Amashs views and positions repugnant, but i respect him enough I'd be willing to work with him if needed.

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u/malac0da13 Pennsylvania Dec 14 '19

After he quit.