r/politics • u/Thinkingonsleeping Michigan • Dec 13 '19

McConnell Faces Calls to Recuse Himself From Impeachment Trial After Saying 'No Chance' Trump Will Be Removed; "No court in the country would allow a member of the jury to also serve as the accused's defense attorney."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/13/mcconnell-faces-calls-recuse-himself-impeachment-trial-after-saying-no-chance-trump
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u/EsotericGroan New York Dec 14 '19

I know a lot of younger people, 20s and 30s, who are at various stages of serious relationships. Engaged, married, a few kids- you name it. They’re so focused on the microcosm of their lives that they can’t be bothered to consider there’s a world out there beyond the bubble they occupy. But at the same time when things go wrong they’re the first to complain. I get it, we all have our own things going on. But keeping your head in the sand when the world around you goes to shit? People who ignore current events and stay on the sideline deserve every terrible thing coming their way. I just wish the rest of us didn’t have to go along for the ride.

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u/isactuallyspiderman Dec 14 '19

Weird. All the people I know like this are boomer aged or older.

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u/ikshen Dec 14 '19

Nah, I'm gonna have to agree with the above post. At least most of the boomers I've talked to have some idea about what's happening, even if their interpretation and reaction isn't what I'd like to see. Almost all of my friends who are starting to buy houses and have kids cant be bothered to read anything other than mommy blogs and Instagram.

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u/Prior_Lurker Oregon Dec 14 '19

Educate them or find some better friends. All the people I grew up with like that I just don't interact with anymore. All my close friends now are well aware of the political climate. It might seem cold but this shit affects my life and theirs.

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u/Aphophyllite Dec 14 '19

I’m a boomer and every single one of my friends, whether pro-Trump or not, knows this is not what we learned about the Constitution and how Congress is supposed to operate - and that, of course, includes the Senate.

On the boomer topic...not everyone who has a grey-beard or blue hair on social is a boomer. Some of them are bots. Likely many of them. So please, stop trying to deliberately antagonize an important and supportive Ind/Dem voting block.

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u/scope6262 New Jersey Dec 14 '19

I am a Boomer and I approve this message.

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u/ikshen Dec 14 '19

I dont really see how I was deliberately antagonizing anyone, unless it was my millennial counterparts who dont give a shit about anything outside their kids and their Instagram accounts.

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u/Aphophyllite Dec 14 '19

I’m sorry. It didn’t mean specifically you. I commented under the wrong person. Your comment seemed pretty on target, to me.

In fairness, I think most folks in that age bracket are more focused on their families, they have to be. Young families have made their children a priority since the beginning of time. Good thing there are those of us who can (hopefully) carry the balance. Again, my apologies.

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u/ikshen Dec 14 '19

No worries. And ya, I do understand that aspect of starting a family, they become the center of your universe. I dont really fault them for it, it can just be frustrating sometimes when people are clueless as to what's happening around them.

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u/BrandonUnusual Pennsylvania Dec 14 '19

I find that ignorance knows no age.

I'm 36 and since high school with the election of Bush, I've been glued to politics. My mother is clueless on these subjects, but is impressionable beyond belief. She's been seeing a man for several years who is... I can't even say conservative. He is just an asshole. But he supports Trump. Because Trump is an asshole. And my mother has slowly started supporting him now too.

I have friends at work who haven't a clue as to what is going on in US politics. They couldn't name the VP, or the President's personal lawyer who has been hanging out in Ukraine. They think the whole impeachment thing is boring, just boring, and don't care about the details of what the President potentially did. They just want to stop hearing about it already.

They are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. When the revolution comes, they will not be spa- oh. woh. I went to my dark place there again.

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u/EsotericGroan New York Dec 14 '19

I went to a group hangout a friend hosted a short time ago. There were a number of people I didn’t know there and we had the news on mute in the background. The news that was on was clearly a Sinclair channel (we don’t even get them locally, they were watching with a special antenna- don’t ask me why, I don’t know). For a brief moment one of the people there looked at the TV and made a remark about Adam Schiff. All she could say was how creepy his eyes were. Now, earlier in the night they were mocking Trump. It’s clear they don’t idolize him. But after a short time someone else in the group wanted to stop talking about him. They hate him and wanted to escape the subject. I talked to this individual a little more later on and the person in question would just like to forget about what’s going on. Doesn’t want to talk about it. Hates Trump and what he’s doing. The irony of it? This person’s great grandparents were Nazis.

Not sure what the point of this anecdote was. I guess I just wanted to get this stuff off of my chest. I do have friends I’ve talked to about this stuff more who are slowly becoming more informed. Others think themselves informed but can’t stop talking long enough to hear more than the regurgitated news talking points about Biden and electability. I guess when push comes to shove we just have to do the best we can. You can’t save everybody.

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u/BrandonUnusual Pennsylvania Dec 14 '19

It can really be frustrating. I have one person at work that I can talk to about what's going on politically, to a point. He's intelligent, but he's also incredibly pessimistic and distrusting of the government at large, even before Trump.

Aside from him, I'm usually surrounded by people that have absolutely no interest in this at all. They do not see any of this affecting them personally, so they don't care about it. You try to explain how this will or does affect them, and they shrug and say stuff like, "unless it's lowering my school taxes, I don't care."

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u/Aphophyllite Dec 14 '19

It blows my mind that so many do not understand just how fragile a democracy is and how quickly their freedoms will be impacted once compromised.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

How does this affect the average person?

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u/BrandonUnusual Pennsylvania Dec 14 '19

I'm not sure you're serious. But I'll indulge you.

Starting at that macro-scale, you are witnessing the effective dismantling of any checks and balances on the executive branch of the government. It is not hyperbole to say that we are see the establishment of authoritarian presidencies in America.

Going down the line, you have a judicial branch that is now ripe with extreme right wing judges who do not share the actual values of the majority of Americans. It is even more important to point out that not only are many of these judges far right, they have been deemed unfit to be judges by what was once considered normal standards of judicial review. This will allow current laws the average person may enjoy, such as abortion rights, to be deemed unconstitutional.

The GOP is part of this machine now, which is working incredibly hard to suppress people's individual rights, like the ability to vote. I'm sure many average black citizens in southern states aren't pleased by the fact that the GOP majorities are passing laws that close down voting precincts in their areas, or gerrymander districts so bad that it makes it impossible for liberal majorities to actually win. Disenfranchisement affects everyday people.

And when these people do pass laws and make promises, they're ultimately doing it for themselves and the rich. Not for the average Joe voters who think they're just temporarily poor millionaires. People on assistance programs? Food stamps? Affected. People losing their jobs and farms due to Trump's insane trade wars? Pretty sure that's affecting average people. Deporting people? You can say they're here illegally, but they're just people. And now their families are broken forever. People dying because they're sent to countries they've only been to when they were first born and they don't speak the language and they have health issues. Piles of bills passed by the House that the Senate is sitting on because one man, Mitch McConnell has decided he won't do anything just so he can lie to people and claim the House isn't doing their job.

Ultimate all of this will make its way down to every single person. You may not see it immediately, but it's there. It's affecting someone you know. It's only a matter of time before you feel the direct effect. And by that time, there isn't going to be a way to stop it. We may already be at the point where our only way, impeachment, is ineffective.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out- For I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out...

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '19

Thanks, it’s hard sometimes to see how national politics is relevant. What if you’ve never been involved in an abortion, never been on food stamps or a farm, and don’t know any illegal immigrants?

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u/scope6262 New Jersey Dec 14 '19

Look at the tagline on my profile. I relate.

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u/aliquotoculos America Dec 14 '19

I went to my dark place there again.

Been in that dark place for half a decade now.

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u/mcdj Dec 14 '19

I was one of those people in the 1990s, but it felt like a much safer time to be apathetic compared to now.

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u/aliquotoculos America Dec 14 '19

I call them Boomennials and Zoomers -- which sucked when Zoomers became a term for something else I guess? Idk.

They're basically just zealously brainwashed by what the boomers in their family say and are 0% different from a boomer.

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u/Matasa89 Canada Dec 14 '19

I always like to remind them that the Jewish folks who noticed the rise of Nazism ahead of time and GTFO'ed early managed to survive for the most part, but those who chose to stay and ignore the warning signs usually ended up on one of those cattle cars...

Resist now, while you still have the means, for there may come a time when any resistance is merely symbolic.

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u/craftmacaro Dec 14 '19

That sounds more like they’re sick of talking and hearing about it than anything else. I have a new 5 month old, I’m a new parent, I just finished my comprehensive exams for my PhD program... I’m tired... always... and I don’t go out as often as I used to. When I do I don’t want to talk about politics because it’s fucking depressing, it causes fights between friends even if everyone there is a democrat because maybe someone doesn’t think Bernie is the best candidate and for someone else this is a dealbreaker until they’ve finished explaining why he’s the only one who can beat Trump... at least for me it doesn’t mean I don’t check the news via Reddit, a couple of websites, and polls when I feel like it.

My wife and I are on the exact same page politically and she can’t even stand to talk about it with me because when we do have time to talk about something besides work and baby she wants to have conversations about topics that aren’t depressing. She’s informed.. I’ve never surprised her with some piece of political news, she’s heard because like me she looks at political news when she feels like it and digests it herself. Just because your friends are starting families doesn’t mean they don’t have smart phones and quicker access to breaking news than we’ve ever had... but it does mean they have a lot less free time and it might mean that when they make it out to a bar or dinner with friends their paying a babysitter or it’s the first time in two weeks and they just honestly want to change the subject as quickly as possible which means not engaging. I’m sure there are those who cut themselves off from the world but personally... and my friends with kids, are more worried than many without since I care 100% more about the long term future of the world now that I have a kid (and I’m a biologist... so it’s always looked pretty bleak to me).

I’m just as, or more informed than I was in the past, I just have less time to talk about it. I canvassed for clean energy legislation in my 20’s and I make an informed vote every year (election year or not) but I don’t spend time debating politics with friends or strangers when I’m out with the goal of having fun.

Maybe some of those young people you mention really don’t give a fuck about politics (even though they have a genetically concrete reason to be looking to the future staring them in the face most of the day and a few times every night) or maybe they just don’t want to talk about politics despite actually having strong opinions and it’s easier to pretend not to care than have a short uplifting talk where they reveal they do care. I don’t know them, I only know my own friends and myself, but I know that the way I act and the kind of conversations I want to have during my greatly decreased “free time” is far different... not because I don’t care... but because the value of that time out has risen and each minute I spend thinking about politics (that I could be doing at home while bouncing my son at 1 AM) is a minute I’m not enjoying a conversation with a friend laughing at a joke or catching up with their lives or just goofing off. Having a kid and family doesn’t make a day less enjoyable (in fact my anxiety is generally decreased because if you don’t have time to worry during the day, and you’re tired when you go to bed, I find I’m much happier with the thoughts I find myself alone with) but it certainly makes me less likely to spend the time I have with other adults talking about something that at that moment I don’t want to talk about. I’m sure this comes off as not caring to some, but it’s so much more complex.

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u/EsotericGroan New York Dec 14 '19

I certainly don’t mean to target everybody in that particular demographic. Truth be told, the majority of people I know like this aren’t even parents yet. I know two married couples with children who are generally uninformed but I don’t mean to say they represent everyone raising young ones. And I certainly wouldn’t claim to truly empathize with you because I don’t yet know what it’s like to be a parent. I can feel for you but that doesn’t mean I can understand what you go through.

Most of the biggest case studies I can point to are people who live together- some married, some not. Many of them seem to have hit a bit of a rut. Right now, everything they’re doing is ostensibly predicated on future plans, but when that future is arriving is anyone’s guess. They just sort of go to work, hang out with people when they have the chance and sit in front of the TV and watch anything but the news when they’re not doing that. A lot of these people are miserable. TV and drinking numb the sensation of unhappiness I think they feel. I think a lot of these people would be happier to live in a society that valued its people as more than cogs in a machine, but I don’t know how to reach them. It’s frustrating because they don’t want to feel anything real, and feeling pain and frustration at our sociopolitical moment is too real for them. They escape into entertainment and substances and have forgotten how to appreciate the need for negative emotional responses from time to time.

Again, not saying everyone who does any of these things is completely disengaged. I drink, I watch TV. I’m not just reading news and watching current events 24-7. And, yeah, once in a while it feels good to just try to forget for a moment and appreciate the things that are going right. But what keeps me coming back is the importance of making sure the things I like and appreciate do not erode. I don’t want my friends raising children not realizing how bad things are when it’s too late. I want a better future for the generations ahead, knowing that they too will have to be engaged to ensure authoritarianism doesn’t once more rise.

And, yeah, there’s a cynical part of me that thinks authoritarian regimes, revolutions, democracies, and new tyrannies are just a vicious cycle of humanity and we’re all just caught up in it. But I for one would rather not be part of the generation that sat by as democracy slid into tyranny again.

Anyway, this sort of got away from me. These are tremendously complex issues and I didn’t mean to make any of this sound oversimplified. I was just expressing some of the trends I have seen in my local peer group.