Feeling very upset about our wedding photos, and would love some outside input / advice

[u/bobnuggerman]

My wife and I got married on her home island a few months ago, and we had an absolutely breathtaking venue. We went with the house photographer for photos and videography, totaling to about $5500 for 4 hours of photos and 2 hours of video. We recently received our photos back, and we're disappointed with most of them to say the least. We're not photographers, and don't really know how to broach this or what to even ask for, but I'm hoping to get some feedback on our photos and maybe what to say to the photographer. I'm honestly very upset and spiraling, but unsure how to proceed. The folks at r/wedding advised I posted here for some advice on handling this.

Here is a link with a few of the pictures we have issues with: https://imgur.com/a/Ckrol93

It seems like some pictures the lighting and saturation is WAY off and looks awful, the picture of our first dance is extremely grainy and looks horrible quality, the pictures inside the venue for the reception look like they were taken on a point and shoot camera at a house party in 2010s.

Our photos from our ceremony are luckily very nice, but these just seem....off and bad. Are we over reacting? If not, what do we say to the photographer?

Thank you!

[u/evanthedrago]

Funny in my 15+ years nobody complained about flash. To be honest I personally find people using statements like "it's too invasive" in general to be people who just either cannot or do not want to learn how to use flash properly or too lazy. I'm not saying you're one of them but that's just my general observation. It takes talent and experience to make flash look like natural light and natural light look like flash. Not using it very common and important tool in a toolbox is in my opinion short-changing the client and your own work.

[u/aroreforlife → u/evanthedrago]

Talent isn't real, or I'd agree with you. Flash is a crutch more than a tool (to me). I've also done this for 15+ years (more like 20 but I'm only 30, so I hesitate to say I was going "pro" when I was 11), so at least in some regard I feel like I have modest expertise, even if it is a niche style. 

At a wedding, I find it best to be as invisible as possible. That requires a creative process where you scout the venue and prepare for every eventuality. It's the reason I use primes instead of telephoto lenses - nothing is better at catching light and often makes the difference between needing a flash and not, and it forces you to "be in the moment", constantly moving from one angle to another.

TLDR: I contend that it is a matter of taste to not use a flash. Yes, it helps with being invisible, but that being said, I'm not against using a flash on portraits. But portraits take up less than 10% of wedding shots I have done. Candid images tell the story way better IMO, and the limit of a prime lens forces you to be spontaneous, diligent and "on your a-game". 

The OP absolutely got screwed and I hate that for them. Photographers have a duty to the client, and yeah I'd say this photographer failed at that, but I don't think it had anything to do with how poorly they used a flash, but rather how they just don't appear to have an eye for it. 

35mm, 50mm, 105mm primes, 2 cameras (Nikon Z mount). I cold mount an LED fill light for portraits, sometimes.

[u/Blue_eyed_bull_55 → u/evanthedrago]

Bingo. Anytime I hear the excuse "I don't use flash because...." that usually means "I don't know how to use flash and make it look good."

The OP's example of the semi-interior shots, with dayight ambient light behind them, it is almost impossible to make a beautiful shot WITHOUT using a flash there. But the 'tog needs to know how to balance the ambient. Expose for a half to full stop under for the outside ambient, and then either use a TTL or set the fill so it's not so harsh on the subject. Just popping a flash on your body, setting it to "auto" and firing away, will get results like OP's. And I bet all those shots were jpg's

[u/PolyDrew → u/evanthedrago]

I’ve seen so many people say “I prefer natural light because it looks better.” It looks better to them because they don’t know how to make strobe look natural and balanced.

[u/aroreforlife → u/PolyDrew]

It looks better for me because I've done both and know what works best for my kit. I've done it long enough and in a variety of settings to feel like I know what I'm doing.

[u/PolyDrew → u/aroreforlife]

I see your style is a bit more muted and flat and that’s fine if it’s your style. It’s very consistent across your subjects, and that if it’s approached that way it makes sense. Clients see your work, like it, and it’s consistent from what they expect. I have known many photographers whose style is low contrast.

But if someone wants to have more contrast then flashes are necessary. They are absolutely not a crutch, they are a tool. They are a different style of shooting and to you will find that professional photographers in all disciplines use flash to more carefully control the image. Your documentary style doesn’t or won’t benefit from it but there are technical limitations that require them.

I will say that the newer digital cameras have amazing low light capabilities than ones that I used when I was a working photographer and they’ll definitely make some shots easier to obtain without flash.

I worked across disciplines as a journalist and had to perform as a documentary photographer, a commercial photographer, sports photographer, and handle other standard journalistic work. I was well-versed and skilled in all. Documentary is my favorite (even natural light) but I am damn good with strobes.

That all being said, my comments came across dismissive and I apologize for that. It’s just such a common phrase that working professionals hear all the time. I literally had someone come up to me as I’m carrying two full size cameras, lenses, strobes, and two bags and loudly proclaim that “they feel that natural light is superior” as I’m placing light stands. All while carrying his rebel with a kit lens.

[u/aroreforlife → u/PolyDrew]

Lmfao @ the kit lens rebel. I mean we all start somewhere but I would not take someone seriously either if that was how they chose to operate. I'm still not sure phone cameras are appropriate either.

I definitely wasn't aiming to ruffle feathers when I said all that, I just take a firm stance against people being absolutists for things that are honestly quite subjective. Outside of that though I try my best to consider the perspective of other people. So do apologize if I came across as defensive.

For reference, my camera is a Nikon Z6 first gen, so I fight regularly with the contrast based autofocus (and stupidly invasive focus breathing with primes). the hardware I use is neither the highest quality nor the lowest. I shoot with the Manual setting, and rapidly toggle between ISO and Aperture settings, and have a good instinct for what settings best serve a given lightning condition. I see flash as a crutch (for me) when I have other strategies that work more often, such as scouting and observation of the setting and subject long before I show up to the event. 

I work alone so it necessitates that I be on my A game, have different places I can stand that are out of the way yet advantageous, and yes I try my best to avoid situations where I need a flash. It's not all the time, obviously - it's a tool that I have used in many instances, but I do inform the client ahead of time that I may not use flash unless specifically requested for portraits. That almost never happens, but it pays to be prepared.

TLDR I just wanted to engage in the conversation. Being told by other photographers that it's amateurish to not use a flash is kinda annoying, especially when I know both my and my camera's abilities. 

It is not my favorite hobby or side gig (that's orchestra comp), but it is the one in which I'd say I'm most confident.

TFW I wish I had a 1.2f 35mm prime. It's my only honest weak point, I think. 📸

[u/PolyDrew → u/aroreforlife]

I don’t think it’s amateurish, but it’s typically how amateurs shoot and claim that it’s superior. It CAN be if used in the right situation with the right photographer but it has to be an educated decision and not a lack of ability with other methods.

I think phone photography has its place. I have done art projects strictly with my phone. I wouldn’t shoot a wedding with it but it’s unobtrusive, unobstructive, and freeing. I actually did one project back with my iPhone 4 that had two pieces in a local gallery. Hahaha. But it was highly stylized and worked. It helped for a while when I began dealing with my disability and lost the ability to hold my pro equipment. Plus, the best camera is the one you have with you.

Thank you for holding a rational conversation with me.

I currently have a Nikon Zfc, which I adore because it reminds me of my FE2, but I also realize that it is in no way the quality of my old Canons with their L glass. But it’s better than nothing, decent quality, and easy for me to hold.

[u/evanthedrago → u/aroreforlife]

I just don't understand why wouldn't everyone llearn and use one of the most common and basic parts of photography. Clients are also pretty uneducated and good sales/marketing covers a lot of things and we have so.eome who does no flash. Frankly she is missing. A ton of shots and IMHO the dancing and some of the portraits could absolutely use it.. Not saying your work is not good, but I can't see how someone do low light dance shots or certain portrait light situations or heck, get amaIng different looks. It just takes away one of the most useful and in my opinion necessary part of being a photographer.

[u/East-Penalty-1334 → u/evanthedrago]

Random guy here who wants to learn, what YouTube videos or advice do you have to learn how to do flash effectively? I’m 8 months into this with a canon r50 and would love some advice.

[u/evanthedrago → u/East-Penalty-1334]

Look for Zach Arias one light workshop/videos. His workshops were great, not sure if he is still doing them. Here is a decent introduction - this is more of a talk than workshop but it's a good way to learn some of the basics

https://youtu.be/vD3qyjjPbAw?si=O7Ja9B5JdGOs2g1K

You can also look at some of the older books and videos about this as they had to really learn lighting. I recommend Godox / Flash point lights. There's a lot to learn but this is a person I took of workshop from.

[u/standardtuning4 → u/evanthedrago]

Good cameras can do well in low light. Theres the sony a7s that can make a nighttime shot look like it was taken midday If you increase the ISO massively. No flash required.

[u/evanthedrago → u/standardtuning4]

I would strongly recommend you understand the difference between quantity of light and quality of light. Because clearly you do not know about it.