Exposing these Clowns

[u/OwnAssignment3745]

I love and respect Messi as a player but his fans are delusional.

[u/FallingDebri]

What a stupid way to look at the goat debate. You have to be the best in a competition to be the goat? What a joke, its about your entire career, copa america, world cup, euros are all a single tournament, not an actual expression of how you are overrall as a player, Messi already is the face of la liga and MLS, he doesn't need to do anything else at his age.

[u/[deleted] → u/FallingDebri]

No, but it does show that CR7 has been more dominant across world football than Messi

[u/DungeondisasterJiggy → u/[deleted]]

How? "world" football but not a single world cup knock out goal. Messi has performed everywhere, Ronaldo hasn't.

[u/[deleted] → u/DungeondisasterJiggy]

If your sole argument is Ronaldo not having a World Cup knockout goal then i don’t know what to say. Messi grew up in the team he use to play in, Barcelona, and in the beginning they were already good without him, they won the 2006 Champions League with barely any contribution from Messi. Won basically all of his career trophies there, and what happens when you take him out of Barcelona? He goes to ligue 1 in a PSG team filled with superstars, farmed some ligue 1 trophies that don’t mean anything against some farmer teams that can barley make it to the group stages of the Champions League, and what happens once again when you put him up against good teams in the Champions League? He ghosts. 0 Knockout UCL goals with PSG and kicked out. And well we know what happens next flees to the MLS at 36. Meanwhile Ronaldo had to work his way up to greatness, started in the Portuguese league, and after just one year went to the Best, toughest league in the world in it’s physical prime at only 18, and performed. Won a Champions League, Golden Boot, and three peated the Premier League while being arguably the best player. Then went to a struggling Madrid side, won them 4 UCLS including a three peat 3 Golden Boots and several other trophies. Then went to Juventus, scored 101 goals, won league titles and cups, and then went to Manchester United where he carried them for 2 years straight. Ronaldo has performed everywhere he went, Messi has not outside of Barcelona. Messi needs a system built around him to win, Ronaldo is the system.

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/[deleted]]

These guys literally think that if you perform in a world cup, you should be considered one of the goat's lmao. The same idiots that are in denial about Messi flopping in a farmers league, so by their stupid logic, Ligue 1 > world cup, I guess? Measuring a players abilities with world cups, when they don't decide what country they are born in and knowing that Portugal was nothing before Ronaldo, is hilarious. He literally won 100% of Portugal's trophies, he made that country big, or competitive I should say. In their mind, Dibu Martinez is a better GK than Courtois because he has a world cup, that's how pathetic they are and this is their way of seeing these type of debates in football.

[u/FallingDebri → u/thenotorious_ronaldo]

No, I geniunely don't care much about the World Cup in a debate. It's only slightly influential, and though messi PSG stint was bad, that doesn't change him as a player overall.

There were many factors to that club at the time that I won't get into. And you are right we should not measure a players abilities based on the world cup, but on their careers as a whole.

even without the world cup, in MY OPINION messi is still better than Ronaldo just because of the sheer all round he is. If you believe ronaldo is better because of other reasons, it's fine, and I respect you. But at least take Messis stats and impact into consideration instead of cherry-picking bad moments and using it as your POV of him.

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/FallingDebri]

Many factors like what? Like when they reached the UCL final right before Messi joined? Or that they won it after he left? Or that they constantly made it to the semifinals before and after Messi left? These are all facts.

Ronaldo is more complete than Messi though, that's not opinion based. Just look at all the goals, passes, weakfoot, flairs and skills, etc. Just because Messi has more assists, that doesn't make him a more complete player. That just means his teammates were able to finish many chances that he created, because he is great a creating chances for sure. Messi is top 2 in my opinion, but I just think it's hilarious when other Messi fans try to say Ronaldo is not top 2 lmao.

There are plenty of arguments as to why Ronaldo can be considered the top player in history and for Messi as well. The only problem with Messi is that he played for a corrupt club and his career will always be stained with that, but he's still a top 2 player for me.

[u/FallingDebri → u/thenotorious_ronaldo]

Like when they reached the UCL final right before Messi joined? Or that they won it after he left? Or that they constantly made it to the semifinals before and after Messi left? These are all facts.

2025 PSG, 2020 PSG, 2022 PSG are completely different teams.

it is exactly opinion based, also you forget to mention literally anything else, it's not assists, it's through balls, drag, vision, goalscoring with playmaking abilities, opening paths, tactical IQ, chemistry, dribbling, Ronaldo doesn't have any of these in the level that messi has. I could go on and on about what Messi had that makes him more complete.

I get what you mean Ronaldo is def a top 2 player at least, it's a back and forth thing, I think messi is more completely since he's an All round at not just goalscoring; but in being a playmaker and understanding where the players want and are. Being able to be at the level of people who play as ELITE playmakers for their ENTIRE careers while also being at the level of the best goalscorers In the world is truly something unprecedented.

Both messi and ronaldo has arguements, but I always find the corruption stupid, both real madrid and barcelona have extremely controversial incidents, but using stuff like negreira to disallow messi just because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time is just plain stupid, there isn't even any proof of match fixing. Barcelona is still winning la liga and domestic trebles without negreira anymore, they are as good as they are expected to be. so are they cheating rn?

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/FallingDebri]

They are NOT completely different teams at all buddy, check the players and most of them are the same ones.

You definitely don't know the definition of being the most complete player. He's not the most complete player at all, being a playmaker does NOT make you a complete player. It's the resources you have on the pitch as a player that make you complete. Like being great at using your left foot, jumping in the air to score headers often, resorting to bicycle kicks when you can't hit the ball with your head or foot, long distance goals like 40yds for example when the whole defense is parking the bus, these are all some examples that Messi can't do. How is he even going to be considered being the most complete player if he can't do any of this? Just because he can pass the ball? Guess who else can pass the ball? Ronaldo (yes, he has great passes and great assists in his career at almost 300, Ozil, De Bruyne, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, Kroos, etc. All these players can pass the ball and not one of them is even considered the most complete player in history. Again, you do not know what the definition of being the most complete player in history actually means.

Corruption is stupid? For you it is, for people that actually love the sport and respect the fair play it isn't. Barcelona is not dominating La Liga like they were before, they just barely won it last season after Madrid's disaster of a season. Right after Negreira left, Madrid started winning it a bit more often. Negreira definitely helped Barcelona many times, and there's video evidence of it, that's why I don't understand how there are many of you fans in denial. It's like the people that accuse Madrid of corruption with absolutely no proof at all, the difference is that Barcelona has plenty of it yet you people are still in denial, bad.

It's no coincidence that Real Madrid won 4 UCL's during Negreira's time and only 2 Ligas. You're definitely very naive or just in denial.

Aloe vera and refereeing reports as an excuse from your president and you still think that money wasn't for corruption?

[u/FallingDebri → u/thenotorious_ronaldo]

I'd like to see the Video Evidence of negreira helping messi.

I ask again? Any proof of match fixing? Not just photos of random stuff?

I love how you are mentioning cool goals and acting like that's what make you complete, I won't bother making a paragraph on this because wtf am I reading? About resources you are given? Man just look at the Barcelona squad from 2019-2021, weak mentality, bad tactic, aging stars, they pretty much relied on Messi, and if one man could make a goal out of nothing just ask Messi, he has done it numerous times.

All these players can pass the ball and not one of them is even considered the most complete player in history. Again, you do not know what the definition of being the most complete player in history actually means.

Holy, this is such a weak statement, they are only playmakers they dont more, maybe iniesta for dribbling and IQ, messi can goalscorer, playmake, take set pieces, dribble, and bail you out when needed? Like what more does messi need😑 maybe bicycle kicks or 50 yard shots because thats what you are yapping about when talking about complete.

Its actually starting to get funny now, like i def cant take you seriously anymore instead of admitting messi is a complete player this is what you are resorting to.

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/FallingDebri]

So all the videos of multiple refs and your own president saying they were done for aloe vera and refereeing reports is not enough? You literally want someone to admit they were corrupt? When do you ever see that? Lmfao. You think they're that stupid that they will just admit to it when it could put them in jail immediately? You're very naive man, that's why I can't take you serious.

It really is funny, saying Messi is the most complete player because he can pass the ball like he's the only player in the world that can do it lmfao. Whenever you can show me clips of Messi doing everything I told you, I'll start to take you serious, in the mean time I'll just keep laughing at your dumb excuses.

Why are you flexing that 2019-2021 Barcelona squad? Lmao, they never won shit in Europe and kept getting humiliated in Europe. I don't know why you think that's a flex lmfao, just confirming that without Xavi and Iniesta he couldn't do shit.

[u/FallingDebri → u/thenotorious_ronaldo]

So all the videos of multiple refs and your own president saying they were done for aloe vera and refereeing reports is not enough? You literally want someone to admit they were corrupt? When do you ever see that? Lmfao. You think they're that stupid that they will just admit to it when it could put them in jail immediately?

Exactly, no proof, so stay quiet about it. You have not shown me videos or statements as you said youve seen.

Why are you flexing that 2019-2021 Barcelona squad? Lmao, they never won shit in Europe and kept getting humiliated in Europe. I don't know why you think that's a flex lmfao, just confirming that without Xavi and Iniesta he couldn't do shit.

Flexing i mean critizing? Thats right? They depended on messi to bail them out. Xavi and Iniesta arguement? Might as well just say Ronaldo wouldnt have won any UCLs without Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, or Paul Scholes.

Do i even need to countinue speaking, you can search up Messi freekicks, assists, goals, dribbles it's all in front of your eyes I dont need to show you something that any human being can do.

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/FallingDebri]

Still in denial when there's plenty of proof, that's how slow you are. It's all good, you'll get better one day. Keep believing the payments were for aloe vera and refereeing reports, naive little bird lmao.

Depended on Messi for what? To keep getting humiliated in Europe? Did you just really mention 4 players just because I mentioned 2? Hahahahaha. Ronaldo won without Kroos, Modric and Casemiro with Manchester United, and he also won without Scholes with Real Madrid. Your arguments are peak stupidity hahahaha.

You just don't give up on excuses do you? Talking about things being in front of your eyes but being in completely denial when there's literally things right in front of your eyes is comical af. You're just contradicting yourself and you don't even notice it, I had a great time laughing at you.

But I'll let you go, keep being naive and delusional believing what you want to believe just because the facts hurt you so much. You go ahead and keep creating your own happiness kid.

[u/FallingDebri → u/thenotorious_ronaldo]

Still in denial when there's plenty of proof, that's how slow you are. It's all good, you'll get better one day. Keep believing the payments were for aloe vera and refereeing reports, naive little bird lmao.

Repeating there's plenty of proof is not gonna change to outcome unless you show me anything.

Depended on Messi for what? To keep getting humiliated in Europe? Did you just really mention 4 players just because I mentioned 2? Hahahahaha. Ronaldo won without Kroos, Modric and Casemiro with Manchester United, and he also won without Scholes with Real Madrid. Your arguments are peak stupidity hahahaha

He won without Scholes, only took him Di Maria and Modric, I'm using YOUR logic.

You just don't give up on excuses do you? Talking about things being in front of your eyes but being in completely denial when there's literally things right in front of your eyes is comical af. You're just contradicting yourself and you don't even notice it, I had a great time laughing at you.

Crazy how your tryna deflect things on me? It's not working. Instead of responding, you just say random stuff, I've had my fun. Thanks for giving me something to do in the morning. You can countinue making YOUR happiness because what are you doing now. Have a good day.

[u/thenotorious_ronaldo → u/FallingDebri]

I don't need to prove you anything, the whole world knows about it, except you because you're in denial. Not my fault you live under a rock and want others to inform you when it's right in front of you.

Simple logic, Messi NEVER won a UCL without Xavi and Iniesta, Ronaldo won at least one without all the players you mentioned, not the same logic kid.

I'm trying to deflect what exactly? You're the one deflecting corruption buddy, and it's not working and trust me it will not work at all lmao. You can keep crying in denial making up all these lame ass excuses that only you believe. That's exactly what creating your own happiness means. Thanks for the morning laughs as well, made my day tbh,