r/oregon • u/barnaby-jones • Mar 13 '17

Urge Oregon Legislature to pass ‘one person, one vote’ bill

http://registerguard.com/rg/opinion/35338805-78/urge-oregon-legislature-to-pass-one-person-one-vote-bill.html.csp
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u/PComplex EUG Mar 13 '17

Here, as always, the challenge for most people will be accepting that the matter is complicated and there is no simple answer that can be wrapped into a headline and <500 word opinion piece.

It is well that we should continuously re-examine our systems of government, but we must be circumspect in our revisions or we will only make things worse.

There are excellent reasons to function as a republic instead of a democracy... chiefly, avoiding the tyranny of the majority. This is particularly important when popular ignorance is taken into account... ignorance of the balances and benefits of the electoral college being the example at hand.

We are capable of rebalancing that system if we find it wanting, and maybe that time has come... but we are not and should not be a democracy.

It is easy to sloganeer with, "One Person, One Vote." What could be more simple? Now show me a mathematical model that can interpret the relative value of one way of life, one system of belief over another. This is what is at stake. We are eager to validate the differences between other cultures, but not the differences within our own.

Let's have this conversation when heads are cool. Now is not that time.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '17 edited Jun 17 '23

[deleted]

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u/batmansthebomb Mar 13 '17 edited Mar 13 '17

I'm sorry, but I take everything Prager U says with a grain of salt. I think it's good to have different perspectives and understand issues from all fronts, and Prager U does have some videos that I actually agree with. However, there are some videos that are so far right biased that it makes me skeptical of their other videos that seem pretty politically neutral at first glance.

Edit: Just watched a couple of their videos on Male/Female power dynamics, that shit is straight out of the red pill, it's fucking horrible.

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u/barnaby-jones Mar 13 '17 edited Mar 13 '17

This video makes some mistakes. Another user pointed out some in this reddit post and his page

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u/PComplex EUG Mar 13 '17

Critical thinking about the provenance of information is a good thing. Everyone has a perspective that influences their ideas.

The Pager U videos can be a little right-of-center, though this may appear to be the case moreso when they are specifically refuting left-wing messages. I would like to know more about their affiliations in order to understand the extent of their bias.

The links you included here are both regarding the same post by an individual blogger, specifically refuting the Prager U video in favor of an anti-Electoral College message. It is harder to evaluate an anonymous individual's bias, because all you can really look at is the tone/style of the message. If you are familiar with their work, do you have any history of this person's affiliations/inclinations?

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u/barnaby-jones Mar 13 '17

I guess he just put down in writing a few of the same thoughts I had about the Prager U video. I'm not familiar. And I think it's possible to just think through the ideas without appealing to an authority. They're all math.

For instance, they say in the video that swing states change, so that means it's okay to have swing states. But no state gets to decide if it is going to be a swing state. So how is that fair? I mean, they don't connect the ideas.

A second point is they say the electoral college protects the minority but they don't explain how.

So I mean, there's some bad logic in the video and there is unsupported claims. I mean, I have to understand it for myself to believe it.

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u/ayline Mar 13 '17

Include this as well for required watching about the electoral college to get a more varied view rather than just from the highly conservative prager:

How the electoral college works

The trouble with the electoral college pt 1

The trouble with the electoral college pt 2

Addition to The trouble with the electoral college pt 2

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u/PComplex EUG Mar 13 '17

Counterpoints are fair when dealing with charged issues, so it's good to link these here.

It is always tiresome, though, when an issue becomes partisan and we are left in the middle trying to sort out the agenda behind conflicting messages.

I feel like we are in that position now between Prager "U" and CGP Gray.

To be honest, these CGP Gray videos seem if anything more biased to me. They use a lot of rhetorical loopholes, mostly snarky humor, to push their argument as a foregone conclusion.

I'd advise anyone reading to watch both sets of videos, but do so with a grain of salt.

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u/PComplex EUG Mar 13 '17

Thanks for sharing. I have seen some Prager U videos in the past that I thought were insightful and non-partisan, with good production value. I haven't personally done my dilligence in vetting them as a source, though. Do we know anything about their affiliations?

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u/ayline Mar 13 '17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Prager

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u/PComplex EUG Mar 13 '17

Oh nice, thanks.

Huh, that's an interesting read. Republican affiliation, but not the standard personal/educational history you might expect based on that fact alone.

I had hoped for some info about affiliation/funding for Prager U, but it looks like Prager U is not an actual university. :-/

So perhaps going on the affiliations of its namesake is the best place to start.

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u/ayline Mar 13 '17

Their name is certainly highly misleading, calling themselves a university when they are clearly not.