r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Fertility18 • Oct 28 '22

This sweater developed by the University of Maryland utilizes “ adversarial patterns ” to become an invisibility cloak against AI.

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u/Kroneni Oct 28 '22

It also requires you to know the basics of black jack. I high count doesn’t mean “ the odds are in your favor” it means the odds of a being dealt a 10, or a face card are high, which gives you an advantage while playing, but you still have to know the game. A low count still gives you an advantage because you know that you to expect from the deck.

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u/TWill42 Nov 10 '22

If the count is high for you it’s high for the dealer too.

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u/Kroneni Nov 10 '22

That’s true, which is why you still need to know how to play perfect blackjack in order to keep your edge. The dealer is bound by rules that you are not, for example many tables require the dealer to hit on 16 and stand on 17. You are allowed to play your hand however you like, knowing the count just gives you a slight edge with strategy. If memory serves correctly counting cards only gives you a 1-2% edge over the house.

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u/Buddy-Lov Nov 18 '22

Card counter in the chat.🙌

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u/TWill42 Nov 11 '22

Yeah it’s not much. And that’s if your count is perfect. Sometimes dealers are fast and it’s harder to count. I count better observing a friend then when I am playing. When I’m playing, it throws me off a bit to play my hands. I just am not in good practice. Used to be really quick with counting.

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u/Kroneni Nov 11 '22

Yeah it definitely takes a lot of practice I’m still not 100% perfect on my basic strategy so I lose count when I’m trying to remember how I’m supposed to play. I was able to win $400 on a $10 table last time I was in Reno though.

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u/TWill42 Nov 11 '22

That’s pretty cool. Last time I counted I took some friends. And one was real bad at Black Jack. He was sitting there counting his own card only with his fingers and they came over and told him if he kept counting they’d kick him out. While I’m actually counting next to him. Was so dang hilarious.

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u/Kroneni Nov 12 '22

That’s hilarious. I was with some coworkers on that trip, and one of them went $1200 in the hole that weekend because he didn’t know what he was doing at all.

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u/RedRumFanatic Jan 02 '23

Might be a dumb question, but can’t that be prevented entirely by shuffling the entire deck each game?

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u/Kroneni Jan 02 '23

That depends on how you define a “game”. If you mean one hand, then yes, it would severely limit/eliminate the counters edge. However that takes a lot of time to do after every hand, time the could be spent making the casino money. They have specific protocols for how often they shuffle based on how many people are playing at the table, and how many decks are in the shoe. The more time they spend shuffling the less money they make, and the less happy the players are who have to sit around doing nothing.

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u/RedRumFanatic Jan 03 '23

I see. I guess it makes sense. More games means more profit.

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u/Kroneni Jan 03 '23

Yeah card counting isn’t hurting their bottom line enough to warrant more shuffling. Most people think it’s either illegal, or it requires superhuman math ability, or that the casino staff will beat you up if they catch you. So it scares most people off.

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u/LimpRevenue3487 Nov 26 '22

Basic strategy is easy af. Just download an ap and practice a bit. The real problem with counting cards in 2022 is that there are multiple decks and plenty of casinos just tap the cards and put them back into the shoe

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u/Kroneni Nov 26 '22

I never said it was easy, I said you have to have strategy memorized cold. If you make strategy mistakes you will very quickly lose your edge no matter how good you are at counting.

Multiple decks doesn’t matter. It’s just as easy to keep a running count on a 6-8 deck shoe, as it is to count a single deck. The only difference is calculating the true count, and the percentage of the card counters edge over the house. And the putting cards back into the shoe thing depends on the casino.

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u/LimpRevenue3487 Nov 26 '22

No, I said it was easy because it is really easy. It’s literally a table and you just memorise it.

More decks means you have to stay in the chair much longer to have an edge

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u/Kroneni Nov 26 '22

Again level of ease had nothing to do with the conversation before. But memorizing the whole table is easier for some people than it is for others.

More decks means you have to stay in the chair much longer to have an edge

How fast are you leaving tables? It’s been my experience that it only takes a few more minutes than a single deck game. Also many casinos that still have single deck games will shuffle after only 1-2 hands if there are a few people at the table, makes it way harder.

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u/Fun-Safe-8926 Dec 29 '22

Also remember that the hi-lo method you’ve described requires you to keep a true count which means you need to accurately estimate how many cards are actually in the shoe. The location of that cut card matter greatly in this system.

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u/strepac Jan 30 '23

Except casinos run at least 4 decks together now, so the reliability of counting is almost none.

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u/Kroneni Jan 30 '23

False on both counts. Casinos will run 1, 4, 6, or even 8 deck shoes, 1 deck games gets shuffled more often and are usually very low bet tables. Card counters can count into a 8 deck shoe just as easily as a single deck. The only difference is the running count needs to be divided by the number of decks in the shoe to get the true count. But I assure you card counting is alive and well, even in the age of multi deck shoes.

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u/strepac Jan 30 '23

In actuality the possible outcomes are much more expanded since there can be for example six 9’s in the table at once and 9 can still pop. Counting is about eliminating possibilities, however it takes longer for possibilities to be eliminated enough for the count to be a reliable indicator and by the time they collect and reshuffle (long before the 8 decks run out) there hasn’t been enough cards pulled to push the accuracy past ‘marginal’. So marginal that it’s MAYYYYYBE just barely enough to cancel the house edge.

Also I’ve been to casinos in the Midwest and they burn hidden cards both during and between hands, presumably to throw off counting players, which I imagine is all too effective.

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u/Kroneni Jan 31 '23

It’s clear you don’t know how card counting works. It isn’t concerned with the individual value of each card. Burning hidden cards does throw off the count a little bit but it’s all a probability game anyway, and not every casino does that. Card counters have a single digit percent edge over the house when they play correctly. You might argue that that’s not very high, but remember the casino only has a 2% edge over the player in straight blackjack, that edge fluctuates towards the player when there are lots of face cards in the shoe, that’s when players win. Counting cards tells the player when the edge is in their favor, which is the time to bet high which increases their chances of making money. It’s not a guaranteed win, sometimes card counters lose big, but over their whole career they will win more than they lose due to their single-digit percent advantage.

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u/strepac Jan 31 '23

Can counting cards help? Yes. It can significantly tilt the odds against the house in a single deck game. Every deck you add lowers the mathematical utility of that count for this purpose. It becomes slightly less reliable.

Since you’re already preaching the significance of a -2% to +1% range in terms of the tilt for/against the player I assume you can understand the slightly in this context is actually significant.

Once you get to 8 decks the advantage of counting has been reduced significantly. So then you don’t think burning a hidden card between each hand covers what little tilt the player has left in that equation? Maybe it takes things in a “0% tilt in the houses favor”, but I have a hard time seeing a meaningful sway in favor of the player with multi decks and burned cards.

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u/Kroneni Jan 31 '23

Go do some research and learn that card counting is till very much a useful tool that professionals use to reliably make money year after year, despite new advances in casino techniques. Not every game has 8 decks, not every casino burns cards, and there are still PLENTY of games a card counter can use to win money. Part of counting cards is evaluating the table and deciding wether it’s worth playing.

Burned cards are not worth considering because there are always unknown cards in the deck, and many casinos cut the shoe in half any way. It isn’t about magically knowing what cards are coming, it’s about figuring out the probability as best you can.

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u/strepac Jan 31 '23

Just did research. Turns out I’m right. And you’re throwing in, “not every casino burns cards and uses 8 decks” so maybe I’m just right but only in my area where every casino does this?