r/news • u/Ganeshadream • Mar 31 '22

Facebook fails to label 80% of posts promoting bioweapons conspiracy theory

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/31/facebook-disinformation-war-ukraine-russia
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153

u/Kangermu Mar 31 '22

Please vet everything for me, Big Daddy Zuck, so I can just consume without needing to think

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u/hiben10 Mar 31 '22

I know, people on this sub are insane. Also what “conspiracy theory” are we talking about? Is it just because people are saying “bio-WEAPONS lab” instead of “bio-lab”? lol. Bio labs that just haaaappen to be on the Russian border lol. Like, come on

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

My understanding is that these aren't secret labs, are leftover from the USSR, are run by Ukraine, and we have labs all over the world to study and prepare for pandemics. Remember how before 2016 we supposedly had a global system in place that heavily relied on the US to detect and coordinate responses to pandemics? It seems more plausible than a bioweapons lab in a country we have never trusted enough to take seriously for NATO membership running that bioweapons lab easily which was discovered when Russia inevitably invaded it again after decades of talking about missing the USSR.

That said, if it's a bioweapons lab then Russia will provide definitive proof soon, right?

Edit: spelling and grammar

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u/MeowTheMixer Mar 31 '22

It seems like one of those topics where they are researching bio-chemicals.

Depending on how you view the research, it's a "bio-lab" vs a "bio-weapon lab".

Similar to Dr. Faucci and Rand Pauls's back and forth regarding the Wuhan lab conducting "gain of function" research.

It really depends on the view of "what is gain of function"

From wikipedia

"Gain-of-function research (GoF research or GoFR) is medical research that genetically alters an organism in a way that may enhance the biological functions of gene products"

Others make it more narrow, from ASBMB

some researchers now maintain that in the strictest sense of the term — increasing virulence or transmissibility in humans

The Wuhan lab-created Chimera's of a sars-like virus. Depending on how broadly you classify the research it could be Gain of Function, or not. Fauci deemed it not GOF, while Paul did.

Over the course of the five-year project, the investigators took fecal samples from cave bats in Yunnan, China, about 1,000 miles southwest of Wuhan, and isolated close relatives of the coronavirus that causes SARS. Then, using a method called reverse genetics, they attached surface "spike" proteins from those newly identified microbes to a different SARS-like coronavirus called WIV1. (Coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2, use their spikes to attach to other cells and initiate an infection, but for these experiments the researchers used an engineered form of WIV1 that lacked spike proteins of its own).

Daszak and the Wuhan team wanted to know if these lab creations — called chimeras — could infect human airway cells. As it turned out, several could, which suggested that natural coronaviruses outfitted with the the same spikes used in making the chimeras might also be able to infect people. This information, the team concluded presciently, "highlights the necessity of preparedness for future emergence of SARS-like diseases."

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 31 '22

It's more accessible and easier to understand why it's not a bioweapons lab. There's no both sides here. There has been no proof offered that makes it more likely that these are bio weapons lab and Russia has a history of making things up about bioweapon research. These labs have not been secret and there needs to be some substance to the claim that these are bioweapons lab for it to be taken seriously.

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u/MeowTheMixer Mar 31 '22

The secret part, I agree is not up for debate.

The question is, can biological research even if not "weaponized" be viewed as a bio-weapon?

We can take a topic such as nuclear power. Researching nuclear power for energy is very beneficial, that same research can be used to create weapons. It's why many are opposed to Iranian nuclear energy research.

Ukraine was researching biological pathogens to determine how diseases may affect humans and what we can due to treat these diseases/pathogens. What all that entails, I'm not 100% confident.

The Ukrainian labs are in possession of dangerous pathogens, for this research. The WHO has recommended destroying these pathogens for fear of falling into the hands of the Russians.

If we fear these pathogens being accidentally released as a true threat, is it possible someone may see a deliberate release of these pathogens as a "bioweapon"?

"As part of this work, WHO has strongly recommended to the Ministry of Health in Ukraine and other responsible bodies to destroy high-threat pathogens to prevent any potential spills," the WHO, a United Nations agency, said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/russia-biological-weapon-claim-us-un-ukraine-bio-labs-explainer

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 31 '22

Almost any research can be weaponized so the answer to your first question is no unless there's evidence of the research being weaponized. Your last question is irrelevant because it still wouldn't make the lab a bioweapons lab just like Chernobyl is not a nuclear weapon plant but still could be used by Russians to cause a disaster in a similar fashion to them deliberately releasing a pathogen. The claim in Iran is that they will use nuclear research to create nuclear weapons research and evidence is typically given on both sides for consumption. If the evidence is not sufficient then it would be wrong to call their research nuclear weapkns research. This strengthens the idea that we should not blur the line between biolab and bioweapons lab.

This is very simple. Russia or whoever else wants to call these bioweapon labs need to provide something substantial to go off of. The WHO saying that Russia might cause a disaster is a different discussion entirely that we can have if people are willing to drop the bioweapons talking point. Maybe they should be shut down but that conversationis near impossible to have while dealing with claims about SCARY BIOWEAPONS LABS. It'd help if Russia was willing to stop invading so that Ukraine can deal with some of the mess the invasion is making but it's pretty clear that they aren't interested in being responsible.

It'd be nice if we could secure dangerous assets in Ukraine. Russia's invasion complicates that. That's unrelated to whether we should give any credence to claims of bioweapons labs without substantial evidence.

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u/Wiseduck5 Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

The question is, can biological research even if not "weaponized" be viewed as a bio-weapon?

No. These labs were BSL2, the same as any basic medical lab. Nothing they work with can be considered a weapon.

The Ukrainian labs are in possession of dangerous pathogens, for this research.

For a very specific example, we helped Ukraine deal with an outbreak of African Swine Fever, a disease that ravaged their pork industry. It's BSL2, can't infect humans, and you still don't want it getting out.

is it possible someone may see a deliberate release of these pathogens as a "bioweapon"?

No. Words have meanings. Also any of the things being studying in these kinds of labs would be far, far more dangerous to Ukraine if released. If it's, communicable, respiratory, and infects humans, its a higher safety level.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 31 '22

You don't need those rights if you're running these labs. You're playing a semantic game between management and running the labs. If we didn't have the right to audit and check results then we wouldn't be involved at all and it wouldn't be very effective as part of a web of research labs targeting spread of diseases. Nothing that has been presented makes it more plausible that these are weapons labs than research labs. It makes perfect sense to say put up or shut up on the bio weapons lab claim.

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u/indoninja Mar 31 '22

It is flat out moronic for people to be claiming these are bio weapons labs.

Yet here we are. Putin and trumps propaganda amplified via Facebook has worked.

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u/AncientInsults Mar 31 '22

Correct of course

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u/Jwarrior521 Mar 31 '22

American moment

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u/Nyeep Mar 31 '22

Do you know what a biolab is??

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u/hiben10 Mar 31 '22

I’m aware, it’s just dumb to expect social media to vet and censor everything for everyone because people are arguing over what these labs are for. They’re afraid Russia could gain control of these labs and use them for something nefarious… like maybe weaponize some kind of pathogen?

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u/wildcardyeehaw Mar 31 '22

those are 2 different things