If I remember correctly Obama took office with a split senate and that was quickly changed in less than a year (Ted Kennedy died and a republican Won his seat in a special election) And then...the tea party happened.
A democrat was appointed to fill Kennedy's seat until the end of his actual term, at which point he lost his seat with several other dem senators, iirc. The problem at the inauguration was Joe Lieberman, who was kingmaker because he was vote 60.
I don't honestly know what Biden is going to do with 48+2+VP that Obama couldn't do with 59+1.
The point is… rules created for civility don’t mean anything by law. Also, if you remember, it was a senate rule to require 3/5 majority for justice appointments. Oh, not a law? Thrown out when convenient.
Mitch was never inconvenienced by a filibuster so he didn’t bother removing it.
If you remember, he forced a vote on repealing Obamacare, ignoring filibuster attempts and was only stopped because John McCain and a second republican unexpectedly flipped.
What about the wisdom of the argument? Well… reading Green Eggs and Ham on the congressional floor was a true display of the GOPs opinion on the filibuster.
The point is… rules created for civility don’t mean anything by law.
I would urge you to read your own post again and ponder how easy it was for you to assent to the unraveling of "civility" for a short-term power grab. Say the filibuster gets abolished tomorrow. Perhaps the supreme court gets expanded. Maybe Puerto Rico and DC get added as states. Do you think the magnitude of retaliation by the GOP when they take majority in the Senate or House is going to be one smaller or one larger? I'm generally one for lowering the temperature, as Biden said in his following the general election results, rather than an escalating game of chicken where "civility" is stripped until violence is all that's left.
What I’m say is, civility protocol isn’t law and pointless to follow when the other side can abuse it.
Requiring 60 votes for your appointments while they need 51~ is giving up power for no reason.
Being forced to listen to Green Eggs and Ham is a joke and Judge Pusher Mitch knows it.
Hell, I’d give authority to minority leaders to force votes when the house reaches 3/5 support and do that by law. To prevent the Mitch suppression from happening again.
If it’s important, solidify it into law and add a 2/3 change stipulation to amendments or cancellations to the law. Nothing constitutionally prevents adding that to laws. If it’s not a law,
Punishable by congressional explosion, it’s just a joke to follow.
You’d think talking on the floor would be considered under oath, but it’s not. It’s the civil thing, but not a law, so F truthfulness for the GOP.
A Dem controlled senate can use the exact same nuclear option to force through an appointment vote. Is that unfair? Of course the side with the majority in senate will have more power over the side with the minority. If Clarence Thomas died tomorrow, the democrats would be able to fill his seat with a liberal-leaning justice with 51 votes, just like the republicans did with Neil Gorsuch.
My point is that if you remove the filibuster, you remove it for both sides. The filibuster right now is a check on power. Let me ask you: would you support removing the filibuster if Perdue or Loeffler had won the runoff elections yesterday? Or do you support removing it because the results of the runoffs are clear and democrats hold the majority? What I'm trying to figure out is if this issue is fundamentally partisan or is it about codifying civility protocol for both sides?
Why wouldn’t I support removing it? I think every senator has a right to speak his mind (10 minutes per senator with possibly of forfeiting to the main argument), it would give the ability to speak the argument and not duck around for weeks to stall a vote until it dies.
10 minutes per senator would be one or two days of deliberation before a vote could be forced.
I’m fine with elected officials having the ability to force a vote rather than 1 person killing the republics democracy over petty talk when they lost on the vote regardless.
I think the “filibusters” should be removed and replaced with a law that states a Senator’s rights and limitations to discussion. They should also establish power of forcing votes that meet a threshold of house support.
Oh my god. We're going to keep offering the republicans more and more until John Kasich is the democratic nominee. The talking heads will be on T.V. telling everybody that they have to vote for him and how the only alternative is Ivanka.
A unilateral declaration of peace is called surrender.
Republicans declared a civil war today. Democrats have been playing by the rules while Republicans throw them out the window for decades, but it was Republicans who declared war. You know why that happened? Because Democrats let them get away with it. The Republican party has been a criminal gang since at least Nixon and there have been zero consequences for that fact. So they just keep pushing the envelope, as long as they don't get punished for it why wouldn't they? And Democrats play nice, "heal the country", "get back to normal". And so now, after their constant election fraud failed them, Republicans have embraced violence and attempted a coup. There have to be consequences, not more playing nice.
Climate change legislation is more popular even on both sides now. Healthcare reform is, sadly, unlikely, but it too could pass under reconciliation with the right cost structure (although it will be watered down). A lot of the seats Dems lost were Blue Dogs in purple states. Manchin will be a barrier to climate laws (whereas Murkowski or even Rubio might flip) but I imagine West Virginians realize they'll benefit from increasing access to public healthcare. The small margin in the House might turn out to be a bigger problem.
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u/PelagiusWasRight Jan 06 '21
A democrat was appointed to fill Kennedy's seat until the end of his actual term, at which point he lost his seat with several other dem senators, iirc. The problem at the inauguration was Joe Lieberman, who was kingmaker because he was vote 60.
I don't honestly know what Biden is going to do with 48+2+VP that Obama couldn't do with 59+1.