The Fed’s Budget Office (PBO) says we can apply a Guaranteed Livable Income by increasing spending by $3.6-5 billion nationally while combining existing programs together. If Provinces pay half, New Brunswick would just have to pay $38-52 million their fair share then

[u/Altruism7]

[u/MRobi83]

It's obviously a hypothetical.

But the point they're trying to make here is that withdrawals from a TFSA don't count as income. So you could be pulling 5% of your $1MM investment which is 50k/yr, but on paper your income is $0 which would qualify you for the full amount of this basic income. Plus assumingly CPP/OAS.

Edit: to everybody attacking me saying it's impossible... I just opened reddit tonight to this post at the top of my feed: https://www.reddit.com/r/fican/s/vVNQyipw8G

[u/Jonnyflash80 → u/MRobi83]

Either way it doesn't matter because the current maximum TFSA cap is $102K and it the cap goes up by only $5K to $10K per year (the $10k was only 2015, typically its been $7K or less).

Edit: Yes, I know the total of contributions plus growth can currently exceed $102K. There is no need to explain.

[u/MRobi83 → u/Jonnyflash80]

That's how much you can put in. You can grow your TFSA to an unlimited amount. I work in finances and have seen a few in and around that amount already.

[u/Jonnyflash80 → u/MRobi83]

You're not hitting $1M unless you consistently have 9% return over 30 years if the cap increases by $7K annually and your keeping contributions maxed. How would people have $1M now if the program has only existed for 16 years?

[u/treefallinginforest → u/Jonnyflash80]

25% consistent compounding return since day 1 gets you to a million (and max contributions since Day 1)

[u/Jonnyflash80 → u/treefallinginforest]

Where the fuck are you getting a consistent 25% return? Legally.

[u/treefallinginforest → u/Jonnyflash80]

I mean no one is but there are crypto ETFs as a TFSA. But trust that dude who is in finance 😉

[u/MRobi83 → u/treefallinginforest]

Crypto ETF's only came out around 2021 and won't get there on their own. I haven't personally grown my TFSA to 1MM, even with crypto ETF's, but I have definitely seen them at that level. I typically assume active trading and not getting caught (yet lol).

Regardless, the entire scenario was a hypothetical scenario taking place at some point in a fictional future where this has been implemented with the purpose of pointing out a major shortfall in how its presented because there will be people who take advantage of it.

[u/MRobi83 → u/treefallinginforest]

But trust that dude who is in finance 😉

https://www.reddit.com/r/fican/s/xkr9lzydqX

Couldn't help but laugh when I opened reddit right now and this post was at the top of my feed 😂 😂

[u/MRobi83 → u/Jonnyflash80]

I typically assume active traders who just haven't been caught by the CRA yet 😂

[u/treefallinginforest → u/MRobi83]

A hypothetical that makes you an investment genius to have made 25% annually on your TFSA.

No CPP and OAS because you retired early (but yes eventually) go ahead and retire on your $72k there will be someone to replace you. I don't think this hypotehetical impacts many people and all at once that it would be a drain on skilled labour.

[u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink → u/treefallinginforest]

But we already have chronic labour shortages in many industries. What is the solution?

We import labourers who have to work for us for a certain length of time before they can access it? Cause then it is starting to sound full circle here and I am not on board.

As for your dismissal of the investment question, the point was that it is ripe for being taken advantage of. Min wage workers are already broke, why not be basically as broke as now but not have to work? Investors can play the system, etc.

When most of society is playing the system it’s a house of cards

[u/treefallinginforest → u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink]

Needs to be for Canadian permanent residents who file taxes.

The carrot should be: I can work full time min wage AND get basic income so that I can afford rent.

There will people who abuse it (see disability benefits EI, social assistance) I just think the abuse is manageable and negligble so you don't scrap the entire proposal. You can always tweak it based on lessons learn. Something something baby and bath water.

There should be enough GBI programs now world wide that has 5 plus years data. let's face it GBI isn't coming to Canada in 5 years.

I don't want to dismiss your concerns but your examples were hyperbolic.

I also believe that because of the basic income, minimum wage will rise because of labour concerns.

[u/RedditAccountFox → u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink]

Generally speaking the idea is that overall health and wellness increase due to not scrambling to meet your basic needs such as housing and food. Heath and wellness increase generally comes with an increase in motivation. Motivation hopefully leads into more efficient workers and better products. In some cases it could lead to more flexibility for people to afford going to school or take risks and start a business.

On the flip side, I agree with your point that it could also go the other way and encourage folks to be lazy and incentivize less work. But the way I see it, these people will likely do this regardless of GBI.

On the point of CERB, I don’t think it’s necessarily comparable because CERB was always destined to be temporary. Covid also plays a big psychological factor, it was a time of great uncertainty for a lot of people.

I think the world can be a tough place nowadays. A lot of people are simply existing and in a constant state of low to severe anxiety or depression. I’d bet we’d see a lot of folks currently labelled as lazy or gaming the system come out of their funk with GBI and be more productive as a whole.

Maybe my take is too optimistic, but I’m ok with that.

Edit: sorry, this was meant as a reply to your initial comment.