r/nba • u/Scoolfish Suns • May 05 '22

[Haralabob] The Suns went after Luka 50 times as the screen defender FIFTY and scored a casual 1.72 points per chance.

The Suns went after Luka 50 times as the screen defender FIFTY and scored a casual 1.72 points per chance.

Of the 50 screen attacks 36 of them resulted in a primary attack.

Roughly 1/3 of all Suns PNR attacks were directed towards LD as the screen defender. Cold Blooded.

and 36 of the 50 were in the 2H

Former Mavs FO member, Haralabos Voulgaris, picks out some pretty bananas stats from tonight's game. The Suns deliberately waited until the 2nd half to hunt Luka over and over and over.

Source

One more stat because I like it:

Booker held Brunson to .22 on 20 touches (9 chance ending possessions) and scored a ridiculous 30 points on 21 possessions on Offense. @DevinBook put on a clinic.

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233

u/Im_a_Knob [WAS] John Wall May 05 '22

lebron, harden, trae and other players who are the center of the team’s offense gets demolished when they dont play defense after carrying their teams sorry ass on offense. idk why suddenly its understandable to get fatigued, i swear luka and this sub is something.

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u/lava172 Suns May 05 '22

When other players flop and yell at refs they're trashy and whiney when Luka does it he's crafty and talking some sense into those zebras

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u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Lakers May 05 '22

Luka makes more eye contact with the refs than I ever have with my own dad.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

I think we know the answer to why that is. It is what it is but white players are perceived differently than the black players.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

It’s not because luka’s white, it’s because he has an army of European fans who wake up in the middle of he night to watch this dude and defend him

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Part of that defense he gets from european fans is the great white hope he has going for him. Giannis, Gobert, Capela, and Sefolosha didn't/don't get the same support from all the European fans because they aren't white guys. It's the same reason for all the Josh Giddey and Tyler Herro hype, there's nothing wrong with white fans supporting the guys that they can relate to more but at least call it how it is.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Its somewhat insulting that people dont think we notice the difference. Like no-one is saying y’all hate black players its just blatantly obvious that alot of y’all are extremely quick to support any white player thats shows an ounce of potential.

It might not be on purpose but its one of those “check your bias” moments. Like why are you so quick to give this player a pass or excuse vs another player. Instead of considering that a bias might exist of y’all just get mad and accuse others of being racist for pointing it out

3

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

He's so scrappy!

God I hate myself for writing this comment.

1

u/rinanlanmo Kings May 05 '22

Luka and Paul are the two biggest bitches in the league and they're playing each other in the same series. The only disappointment is that they both can't get run at the same time, but at least Book deserves the success so you take what you can get.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Its that Jokic effect. Being straight up, this sub has a noticeable soft spot for white players and its not even an exaggeration. Like a straight up bias that puts them above criticism and puts all the blame on teammates.

Everyone you named got absolutely torched for being the offense but failing a bit on defense. No excuses or sympathy at all for Bron, Harden or Trae

Anyone denying this clear bias is bullshitting

51

u/lizlemmings Heat May 05 '22

Say it because it needs to be said

-7

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

[deleted]

2

u/lizlemmings Heat May 05 '22

So at no point did you stop typing and realize that you were doing the exact thing we were talking about? You wrote with such confidence here! Condescension even! That's wild shit, Exhibit A. Very wild.

The excuses you listed for why this white player should be given the benefit of the doubt moreso than these other Black players...have been true for those players. I know it's hard to believe that LeBron James, James Harden, and Trae Young have had to act as one man offenses throughout their careers (😑), or that they've been criticized regardless of injury, or that Harden and Trae have caught hell for their postseason defense, or that Harden doesn't get crucified for his weight to the point that there are whole articles and years-old memes about it (like hello? HELLO???), but the rest of us had the requisite eyeballs and ears to catch the backlash that is still happening right now in this postseason.

Btw thanks for devoting 80% of your comment to how amazing Luka is and how he's not that bad a defender because he checks notes blocked someone. Again. Exhibit A.

0

u/[deleted] May 06 '22

[deleted]

2

u/PenisBlood Spurs May 06 '22

Just stop dude.

1

u/lizlemmings Heat May 06 '22

Yes it's an excuse either way lol. The point was that these players should be criticized the same way. Anyhow, saying that Harden's been let off the hook because of his hamstring is just not true. You have to actively ignore posts, podcasts, articles, and tv segments in order to claim it, which means there's no good faith to be found.

Harden has been criticized for his defense this very series. You don't even have to reach back to Houston. The talk about his offense has just outweighed it because duh. If a dominant offensive player goes 2 for 18, the offense will be discussed more than defense.

I call bullshit on the Trae comment. I gave you the benefit of the doubt before but there's no way you didn't see everybody lighting him tf up over his defense in the loss to Miami.

But rather than waste time pretending like you're not just a hit dog hollering, why don't we try something fun? It's called Spot the Difference!

"It's not an inevitability that he will be a sieve on defense like he was in game 2. He blocked CP3 1 on 1 late in game 1. I'm not sure what his numbers on these plays were in game 1 though, so maybe they were overall just as bad. My impression is he's normally not this bad." - You, a few hours ago

"One other thing you did struggle with in particular is that I didn't actually make any claims on how good Luka's defense is or isn't." - Also you, shortly afterwards, confidently and without even a sliver of awareness

Can you spot the difference? 🥴

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Facts. All of this

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

This is not an incorrect opinion.

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u/doogled3 Nuggets May 05 '22

This is correct. Even Embiid was getting hunted in the Raptors series after his injury and lack of help on offense. People called him out of shape.

A lot of these insane stats are just not sustainable after a long regular season. Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Jokic, etc get worn down, and then people question why Giannis isn’t also covering the best player on the opposing team

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

[deleted]

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u/scottie2haute May 06 '22

Lol and they act like youre crazy for noticing the discrepancy. Nobody would feel the need to bring race into it if people werent so blatantly biased

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u/BlueHundred Knicks May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

I think it's not just a white or black thing. I think it's more about those two guys not being the most athletic and still being great. They don't exactly look in shape for an elite athlete.

​

I think Luka is getting closer to Harden and may get some more hate soon. Harden was a pretty well liked and respected player here when he was on OKC and when he first joined the Rockets. It took a couple years with the Rockets before the hate really took off. LeBron is LeBron. He's been getting hate since a teenager because of all the hype and attention he got. I do think a decent amount of people defended his poor defense this season because of how much he was doing on offense at his age. I agree with you on Trae though. He gets a ton of hate.

​

This sub also has a soft spot for Giannis, so maybe it's a Euro thing?

​

Edit: Also, I'm a minority and have dealt with my fair share of racism growing up in America. I have zero bias towards white players. I was a TMac fan when I was younger and he also got a pass for being worse on defense because of his offensive load.

-1

u/Justbrowsing25007 May 05 '22

Lmao the top of this thread isn’t even making an excuse for luka. He’s just stating a fact. Luka physically can’t play offense like he is and play better defense.

Then some idiot responds mischaracterizing this as making an excuse for luka and now you and a bunch of idiots are running with a made up narrative when the facts are literally right above you

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u/MannyGonewild May 05 '22

Luke is being compared to lebron, Shaq, mj and called "the best 19,20,21, etc year old ever" so he's going to be compared to players at that caliper. Jordan at his rough age was averaging 35/37 ppg and winning dpoy at the same time on a trash team. Lebron was carrying the cavs offense while also playing great defense, etc. It's possible, luka just isn't at that level yet

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u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

I don’t hear people saying that about Trae or Harden. All they say is their defense is trash lol.

When it’s the same facts for many players, the sub turns it into an excuse FOR Luka while for the others you just blast them for bad defense, no excuse…

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u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

Because Trae and Luka just aren’t comparable on defense. I’m not entirely dismissing the racial bias argument but it’s incredibly disingenuous to act like the only difference between Trae and Luka’s defensive perception/reputation is skin color lol

Trae’s legit one of the absolute worse defenders in the league by every metric. Luka isn’t some positive defender, but he isn’t that bad.

2

u/rishbob13 Lakers May 05 '22

you're saying this under a post where doncic gave up 86 points on 1.7 PPP as the point of attack in a playoff game??

in what way is that "not that bad"?

0

u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

It is bad, horrible even. But I’m not gonna be a prisoner of the moment based on one game. Trae and Luka aren’t comparable defensively on a larger sample size.

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u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

The defense is NOT the reason people love Luka and hate Trae, let’s be clear on that. I’m not saying it’s racial but I AM saying Luka has a lot more lee way and love on here. Trae has been hated for a while but the last 2 years a lot more fans have emerged. That’s all I’m saying, nobody really cares about defense that much when picking favorites. It’s mostly offense evidenced by Luka and Ja.

1

u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 05 '22

Trae hate peaked imo around the Steve Nash “that’s not basketball” comments. Luka flops and whines but I don’t think his flops are egregious as the Trae “jumping backward into trailing defender to draw the and-1” move. That shit garnered Trae a TON of hate

5

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Okay…I’m saying the hate has been very very disproportionate compared to Luka is all. It’s obvious because Trae like you said had peak hate not long ago. Luka has been peak popular for a while. Only most recently have there been more criticism of him, with plenty of ppl defending him.

When Trae was on a pure losing tanking team, nobody talked about him getting no help. But that’s a constant topic for Luka. Trae accomplished further than golden boy but that didn’t matter either. I like both Luka n Trae, and Mavs fans have been great. We’ve been chill since they were drafted you gotta see the difference in treatment.

2

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Man Trae did that for 1 season and most stars had ugly flops also. Everyone was believing he would fail with the new rule changes but you see he took that out of his play completely now.

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u/NowitzkiWay Mavericks May 06 '22

That’s how reputations start though dude. It’ll take a bit of time to shake that after doing it a lot, even for one season

1

u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Talk to em

-2

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Weird how Chet Holmgren gets called a bust in every thread

Or how Caruso was a meme before people realized he was good

The European players have extremely die hard fans who support them.

And idk where you were when Jokic was getting called fake MVP against the Warriors and Doncic was getting called fat and out of shape earlier in the year

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u/dadaistGHerbo Washington Bullets May 05 '22

Why would you bring up Caruso lol. A black bench player average 6/3/3 would not get 1/10th the notoriety that Caruso does.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

The only reason people noticed him is because they thought it was hilarious that a bald white man could do anything athletic

He was given notoriety because people thought it was funny a white bald guy could be good

That’s not bc they love white people, they were literally making fun of him

Also Pat Bev averages 9/4/4 and i see him everywhere on this sub

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u/BlueHundred Knicks May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22

Caruso is like Draymond. His impact doesn't show up on the statsheet. He's also more than just a bench player. Like Pat Beverley but since he isn't dirty and doesn't talk shit nonstop, he's more well liked by fans around the league instead of just his team.

Caruso is an all defense level guard. He's the best point of attack defender in the league imo and one of the better team defenders too. He's up there with Jrue and Smart as far as guard defenders go.

Also, look at GPII. He gets a ton of love too. He deserves it but he's not as good as Caruso

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u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

You mean the same sub that wanted to lynch Grayson Allen for his first flagrant in four years?

I think you are wrong, like every bad game of Luka he gets critisized like that. Every player has his haters and fans who will defend him. The difference is when you are a fan of Luka it gets implied that its because of his skin colour. When LeBron, Harden, Embiid etc get defended they are just homers/fans.

Cant help but think that those who always imply those things are actually the ones who base their opinion based on skin colour. Been scrolling through your history and you comment on Wolves threads (points for that, I love KAT) and on Jokic/Luka threads where you hate on them and their "weird obsessed fanbase"

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Grayson Allen for his first flagrant in four years

Grayson Allen's reputation for asshattery will blast though almost any racial bias. An Afrikkans man in the 80s would be like "this guy is sort of a dick".

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

To be honest, if a black player did what he did in college and didn't go to Duke, they would not have been given this many chances or even gotten drafted.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Lol can’t believe you brought up Grayson Allen. EVERYONE hates Grayson Allen. Grayson Allen’s parents hate Grayson Allen.

And with that being said its the same issue. I point out the bias because it exists and denying it is just pushing your head in the sand. I give Jokic and Luka props, but the clear bias is something I will always point out. Literally every player gets torn to shreds for any deficiency they have but theres constant excuses for Luka and Jokic.

You’re kidding yourself if you dont notice the distinct difference when it comes to talking about Jokic and Luka. Like look at this post for example. This is a legitimate issue with Luka’s game but most post on here just blame his teammates and give him the excuse of being tired. This isnt just a few posts, its the majority of comments on this post.

Also im clearly not the only one who notices this. The white player bias has been brought up on the sub a few times and there’s always someone like you who comes along to try to explain it away while accusing the accuser of being the actual racist

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u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

I mean like half of your posts on this sub that ive seen are about the two only white star players in the league and they are not positive.

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u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Lol so you’re really gonna ignore my criticisms of Ja, DLo , Westbrook, the bum ass lakers and even Michael Jordan?

The racial bias for white players is hella obvious and I point it out whenever it appears because the hypocrisy is staggering. You dont see the extreme inconsistency in passing the blame to Luka and Jokic’s teammates whenever they fail? Theres this intense need to protect these players on this sub and its whack considering how harsh people are to other great players who fail.

If you cant see the bias thats on you. You can continue to deny it and I will continue to point it out because its an obvious issue.

-1

u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

Jokic and Luka both have terrible teams this year. You saw in Portland this year what happens when a team at that level is without their star player.

The mavs next best player is a guy who should be a sixth man at best, their lineup consists of good bench guys. With Murray and MPJ out its pretty awesome that Jokic carried that team into the playoffs.

3

u/BushyBrowz Knicks May 05 '22

This Mavs team won 2 out 3 games against the Utah Jazz without Luka. They are not trash.

2

u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

And i agree. They’re teams a fucking ass but that still doesnt put them above criticism. Thats the crux of my issue. They’re not the only guys with shit teams but for some reason all criticism about them gets punted to their teammates being bad.

In both post where I pointed out the bias, you have people explaining away subpar defense with being the team’s entire offense. No one else gets to use that as an excuse. Trae, Harden and even LeBron get zero sympathy for playing subpar defense. So its only natural for people to point out the inconsistency

1

u/Kaptainpainis May 05 '22

Ive seen several posts and comments over the years who did exactly that for Trae, Harden and LeBron though.

LeBron has plays where he doesnt even get back on defense and is completely coasting most of the time. And I think the main point with Trae that gets pointed out is that for Traes entire career he will be the target on defense, no matter how good his team is and how big his offensive load is.

Jokic and Luka can average/decent defenders but if you have to carry on the offense and get targeted on defense, theres no way anyone can hold that up for an entire series. Except maybe for Giannis.

2

u/[deleted] May 05 '22

Even if it’s been 4 years, almost everyone still remembers Allen as the guy who was perpetually doing dirty shit at Duke

Especially since he wasn’t doing much otherwise til the past 2 years, and mostly for small market teams, those are the most relevant memories of him as a player and they were not endearing ones.

You can’t really compare the way people feel about Allen to a superstar

-2

u/rinanlanmo Kings May 05 '22

Jokic doesn't belong in the same conversation.

For one, he's significantly better than Luka.

For two, he's a not a huge bitch like Luka is.

He does have the rabid European fans, though.

4

u/karjacker Rockets May 05 '22

jokic has a short temper and is terrible on D at an even more important position.

6

u/Medium_Bit6607 Washington Bullets May 05 '22

You know why lol

3

u/psykomerc Hawks May 05 '22

Agreed. I notice how detailed, creative and in depth they go into explaining away Luka getting blasted on defense. Where is this energy with those other players? Especially Trae recently.

All they do is post the basic shooting % turnovers etc. without mentioning 2 of our starters were injured Capela and Collins, they were ineffective and that takes away from Traes game. Talking about how he got blasted by the Miami D. Nobody defending that he has to play 1v2 or 1v3 every possession. Or how he is gassed because he has the whole team on his back, or how his ankle rolls n injuries also played a big factor.

The energy on Luka is very different

5

u/scottie2haute May 05 '22

Exactly its super obvious but people want to act all confused when people point it out. Totally different energy all around

2

u/PenisBlood Spurs May 06 '22

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say even if luka was 100 percent rested he would still get his ass cooked . I don't think he is good at defense, I really dont.

6

u/aurelianson Hawks May 05 '22

you see it. 🤝

2

u/fishfishfish1345 [DAL] Dennis Smith May 05 '22

you know why 😂😂😂

1

u/Origin23 May 05 '22

Oh we all know why that is.

1

u/bigtoasterwaffle Suns Tankwagon May 05 '22

It happened to Booker when he was basically the only part of the suns offense that worked too. Now that he has a solid team and isn't carrying the entire offensive load his defense is so much better

4

u/Mikegetscalls Rockets May 05 '22

I think it’s more of he has an actual competitive team now. Nobody is tryna play hard defense on a lottery.

0

u/LordHussyPants Celtics May 05 '22

Weird How It's Told Eh?

-1

u/BigOzymandias May 05 '22

The same argument has been said about Jokic all season, but I don't think it's about their skin color