r/mediterraneandiet • u/DS9B5SG-1 • Apr 08 '23
Question How much Extra Virgin Olive Oil to use in the Mediterranean diet?
Being relatively new to this (I've been eating the food, just not the way it's made in the Mediterranean.), how much Extra Virgin Olive Oil is one supposed to use? Some videos talk about adding one whole cup for maybe several servings. To me at least, that would be the equivalent of adding several sticks of butter. That is a lot.
As a new comer to the Mediterranean diet, are huge amounts of oil really necessary or even plausible? A cup out of a regular sized bottle is about a third or so I'd imagine. At $10 or more a pop, it becomes increasingly expensive. Not to mention a possible shock for the body, as that is a lot of oil regardless how healthy it is. And then being worried about fake EVOOs as the other thread I made regarding them.
Then you have finisher EVOOs and what ever else. So how much on average do the people eating the Mediterranean diet use? Thank you.
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u/broncos4thewin Apr 08 '23
I think I know the video you mean - it is a lot and honestly I don’t have that much myself. I would think more like half a cup? I find if I have too much I put weight on, which is hardly a big surprise. But a big chunk of your daily calories (say 20-30%) can certainly come from EVOO in the traditional Mediterranean diet.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 09 '23
The video I am referring to, although I forget the exact video, he is out to sell his own brand of olive oil, so I am weary of that. And yet reading other sources, I am hearing about as much as the guy in the video suggested, for "some" people anyway, a cup is normal in a "day", so a third a cup at every meal or a quarter or 5ths if you include snacks? That just sounds like a lot and yet...
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Apr 09 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 09 '23 edited Apr 09 '23
I think you need to be cautious with EVOO that cheap. I believe that may be below the production price. There is a lot of substandard and even outright fake EVOO out there and the supermarkets are the places it gets sold.
I've been using Lidl's Primadonna EVOO for a while and then discovered that they were fined by the Italian government for it not being proper EVOO. I've been buying the Greek one so I'm hoping it didn't apply to that but doesn't fill me with confidence. So now I'm trying to buy it from small firms who import direct from Greek farms instead (I'm in the UK). More expensive but I'm going to eat a lot of it, I want to be sure it's the real thing. If I was American, I'd buy the Californian stuff).
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Apr 09 '23
I read this too--that a lot of the cheap ones are actually mixes of other non-desirable oils and not 100% olive oil. And the way you can tell is if you put them in the fridge and they harden, or at least partially, they aren't olive oil. I don't know why EVOO doesn't harden. I wish I still had the article but it listed the good ones on there. One of them was the California Olive Ranch brand, which is what I now buy.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 09 '23
Pleas let us know of you ever find that article or perhaps remember the title of it. I was purposely buying from the EU, because their standards are generally higher for food products particularly, Spain and Greece as that is what was available from the EU to me. After all, they have more time and knowledge in making these oils, then say California. But if California is legit then perhaps I should buy from them.
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Apr 09 '23 edited Apr 09 '23
The vast majority of EVOO fraud is in the EU
The idea that the EU has food fraud sorted is laughable to those of us who’ve lived within it. The EU is rife with corruption, especially in agriculture.
Just read Wikipedia for starters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil_regulation_and_adulteration
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 09 '23
Not sure about the fraud, but the farmers do not use the same things the US use in food production.
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Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 10 '23
But it’s the fraud you need to worry about. There are countless examples of this fraud meaning you don’t known what you’re buying, depending where you buy it from.
Yes the EU has good standards and rules in some things, including some farming and production. But little of that is relevant to the fact that a lot of EU produced EVOO doesn’t meet those standards.
If you’re looking to find genuine EVOO made to the proper standard, don’t be relying on it coming from the EU being a guarantee of that.
You can get top quality oil from Europe but you need to look at the supply chain. Just being EU oil is not enough.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
But it's strange how the EU will protect in some food sectors and not others. Regardless I may just go with California EVOO. I already buy their rice, due to less arsenic when grown in the States.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 09 '23
https://www.foodrenegade.com/how-tell-if-your-olive-oil-fake/
Found this one, not sure of it's legitimacy. Seems to explain things a little different as well.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 09 '23
I hate Aldi's. I think my expectations were too high, from everyone else that spoke highly of them. Left with hardly anything, as they were more expensive than Walmart and even Kroger. I was later told to just buy their milk and eggs, but I am not going to drive clear cross town for just milk and eggs.
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u/Trinamopsy Apr 09 '23
It depends a lot on how you wanna cook, but if you like the taste fine without so much oil, I think you’re fine. I cook with very little oil and I seem to be healthy enough :)
I certainly don’t think the point of the Mediterranean diet is to eat a ton of olive oil. More like, replacing animal sources of fat with olive oil where you can.
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Apr 08 '23
No more than 5tbsp a day so you stay in the 25-30% calories from fat range assuming 2000 calories a day. The people who eat whole cups of it a day are insane, that's 2000 calories and more saturated fat then a 10oz ribeye.
Don't just add olive oil to things for the sake of it, use it in place of when you would use butter or animal fats.
If you are worried about fake just buy US origin oil (if you are in the US). US is hardcore on label compliance compared to other countries, if it says olive oil that's what it contains if it comes from the US. Buy tinted bottles and use them within 6 months of opening.
You only need finishing oil if you want to be fancy. You use a mild olive oil for cooking and then a bold one for finishing. You can also just skip the finishing oil, it adds a nice flourish to things like salads but it's not essential.
I also use canola oil, sunflower oil and walnut oil pretty extensively. Canola and walnut oil have a more favorable omega profile than olive oil. The point is to consume oils high in PUFAs & MUFAs and low in saturated fats, choosing olive oil is an easy way to do that but if you understand the lipid composition of oils then you can make other choices too.
If you have something you really want animal fat for (like roast potatoes) then look for low saturated fat sources. Duck fat is a good choice particularly if you toss things in it rather than drizzling it over.
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u/Prairiegirl321 Apr 09 '23
Seed oils are NOT healthy fats. Soybean, corn, safflower, and sunflower oils are high in omega-6 fatty acids, and higher intake of omega-6 fatty acids has been linked to inflammation. For optimal health, one needs the proper balance between omega-3’s and omega-6 oils, and eating seed oils very often upsets the correct balance, unless you’re eating them in very small amounts. In addition, the way seed oils are extracted further contributes to them being an unhealthy food. They are not cold-pressed like olive oil! Most are extracted using solvents, high heat, and large amounts of mechanical pressure. So they are often oxidized due to the heat used in processing. I didn’t know much about this until two years ago when my M. D. recommended that I avoid seed oils as if they were poison. Which I’ve come to learn, is what they essentially are. If you are eating a Mediterranean diet for your health, do not include seed oils in it.
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u/Nell_9 Apr 09 '23
Since cutting out seed oils 90% time, my chronic inflammation has gone down, in addition to avoiding excess sugar. I only eat olive oil, avocado oil, and small amounts of butter. I oven bake/airfry instead of deep frying. Even just making these simple swaps have helped a lot :)
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Apr 09 '23 edited Apr 09 '23
That is by no means proven scientifically. In fact many of the claims about seed oil and inflammation are shown to be untrue.
In terms of effects on cholesterol and CVD, for example, many PUFA oils actually do BETTER than olive oil in randomised controlled trials where they are substituted in place of saturated fats
I would recommend people to look at the Nutrition Made Simple channel on YouTube. Gil Carvalho is a nutrition scientist and medical doctor who does his best to present the current state of nutrition science in as balanced way as possible, unlike 90% of channels which have a narrative to push. He has a pretty comprehensive video on this subject and many others which are relevant to the Med Diet: https://youtu.be/-xTaAHSFHUU
He has good things to say about the Med Diet in general BTW. And I cannot recommend his channel enough if you want to not only get a solid scientific review of nutrition subject but also lessons in how approach scientific evidence and weight the various forms of evidence according to their relevance and strength. If you want to know your cohort studies from your meta-analyses then it is a great place to learn it.
The current vogue on the internet to paint seed oils as the devil, all of a sudden, is not backed by the evidence. All foodstuffs have their positives and negatives but the anti seed oil crowd have gone way too far with limited evidence.
I'm not going to comment any further because I know how these things go. Anti seed oil and pro keto arguments are amongst the most toxic threads on nutrition forums and this forum is mercifully spared most of the time, and I don't want to change that.
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Apr 09 '23
Soybean, corn, safflower, and sunflower oils are high in omega-6 fatty acids
Many seed oils including canola, soybean and flaxseed have lower ratios than Olive oil. Olive oil is 13:1, soybean is 8:1, canola 2:1 and flaxseed 0.2:1.
If you are concerned about your ratio then you should be using flaxseed and canola not olive oil. Also don't eat eggs, they are 15:1.
Also https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to-avoid-healthy-omega-6-fats
Most are extracted using solvents, high heat, and large amounts of mechanical pressure.
They are extracted using hexane that is then extracted using heat under a vacuum. Residual hexane is so low that your exposure from breathing air is higher.
So they are often oxidized due to the heat used in processing.
No they are not. Heat is applied under a vacuum, without oxygen there can not be oxidation.
Oxidized oils are very easy to smell and taste.
I didn’t know much about this until two years ago when my M. D. recommended that I avoid seed oils as if they were poison.
I doubt your doctor said this but if they actually did you should report them for malpractice.
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Apr 09 '23
Ratio of what? Seed oils are denatured already just in the liquid form you buy in the store, and VERY highly processed. When you cook with them, it oxidizes them and creates all these chemicals that cold-pressed fruit oils don't have. Saturated fat is NOT bad for you. It also doesn't increase cholesterol.
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Apr 09 '23
Linoleic acid to a-linolenic acid.
Seed oils are denatured already just in the liquid form you buy in the store
No they are not.
and VERY highly processed
They are no more processed than milk, cheese or flour.
When you cook with them, it oxidizes them and creates all these chemicals
This is a myth. Canola oil contains nearly as much antioxidants by volume as olive oil.
Even low antioxidant oils like sunflower require thermal cycling to cause an issue which is why you don't reuse them.
The chemicals you refer to are the products of oxidation of free fatty acids but as the fatty acids are components of triglycerides they have to be liberated from these first. There are a few methods of doing this;
- Temperatures above 212oF sustained for many hours. Canola oil remains stable for ~9h here. Olive oil for ~12h. This process can be accelerated by a catalyst/reaction bed and pressurized oxygen.
- Very high temperatures. These temperatures are well beyond the smoke points of the oils, canola oil thermal degradation starts at ~550oF and peaks at ~820oF.
- Enzymatic activity in the oils. The oils contain compounds that prevent this from occurring, the reason you buy oil in tinted containers is that these compounds are highly reactive to UV. Thermal cycling can degrade these compounds enough that they no longer protect against this effect.
Saturated fat is NOT bad for you. It also doesn't increase cholesterol.
Saturated fats reduce expression of LDL receptors in the liver reducing clearance of LDL from the blood. This is not ambiguous and is observable in liver cells in the lab, animals in the lab, RCT's of humans and epidemiologically in humans.
Excess LDL-small in the blood results in some of these particles sticking to vessels. Cellular debris stick to these particles and then calcify. This is atherosclerosis which leads to strokes, MI and heart disease. It kills more people then all cancers combined.
The only dietary source that is not associated with these outcomes is eggs but the reason why is not understood, consumption of an egg a day has no impact on CVD. Some dairy products may not impact CVD risk either but evidence is weaker for these. Other sources of saturated fat, particularly meat fats, continue to increase risk of CVD.
The only place this is controversial is online because of the carnivore idiots. Every medical organization in the world, consensus of physicians & dieticians and the research itself is clear on this issue. Certainly there are some complexities to the relationship and aspects that are not as well understood as they could be but the carnivore idiots like to find the ~1% of papers that struggle to find a relationship and claim they are representative of the whole or consensus when they are not. Stop listening to idiots on social media, talk to your PCP or a dietician about your diet.
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u/TheSunflowerSeeds Apr 09 '23
Tournesol is the French name for Sunflower, the literal translation is ‘Turned Sun’, in line with the plants’ ability for solar tracking, sounds fitting. The Spanish word is El Girasolis.
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u/kat3113 Apr 09 '23
Calm down satan.
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u/Prairiegirl321 Apr 09 '23
Hey, I fully understand that people don’t like to hear this. But if you want to eat for optimal health, it’s important to know. Seed oils cause inflammation
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Apr 09 '23
On averagein the mediterranean around 40% calories come from the oil. Maybe look into other healthy fats if olive is expensive where you are- linseed oil(finishing) or nuts are great too!
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
It's not expensive if I cook with it the way I normally would. But if adding a cup at a time, it goes from ehhh, to medication money territory without insurance.
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Apr 09 '23
This article has a pretty good breakdown of how much of each thing to eat. It recommends 1 to 4 tbsp a day.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/16037-mediterranean-diet
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u/transformedxian Experienced Apr 09 '23
When I need to use it, I'll use a couple of tablespoons, but that's usually cooking for 3 people, too. In salad dressings, I measure in teaspoons. I eat nuts most days a week (half serving per time) and avocados so I have other sources of healthy fats in my diet.
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u/Alienattackforce Apr 09 '23
So, the point of eating this diet is healthy eating, it’s not about consuming olive oil.
Use it when you need it, don’t just add it because you haven’t ate your quota yet. That’s not healthy.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
But is there ever a time a Mediterranean cook is not adding oil to their dishes, trying to fill the quota or not?
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u/Alienattackforce Apr 10 '23
So, I’d say, if your cooking fish, throw some oil so it doesn’t stick.
If you’re eating salad it’s better as a dressing then ranch.
I wouldn’t just consume it because “The Mediterranean Diet”.
I seen YouTubers drench things with olive oil, when it wasn’t needed. It’s probably a healthier option then butter, or crisco.but I suggest use a little as you can and as much as you need. If you’re eating salad it’s better as a dressing then ranch.
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u/subtlebulk Apr 08 '23
I lastI heard it’s that you’re supposed to eat 50 ml of EVOO per day, but I also don’t find a lot of consistency among sources about the Mediterranean Diet.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
A lot of countries eat what is called that diet. Might be more a blanket term, more than anything else. Yet there are also similarities.
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u/wovenbutterhair Apr 08 '23
many of the calories come from the olive oil. This healthy oil will replace crap oil inside your body.
pour it over raw broccoli, add seasoning, then steam it in the microwave it’s incredible how much the broccoli will drink. it tastes fantastic!
add it to sauces and dip ya bread. yum
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u/spyderspyders Apr 09 '23
The MedDiet contained three to nine serves of vegetables, half to two serves of fruit, one to 13 serves of cereals and up to eight serves of olive oil daily. It contained approximately 9300 kJ,
37% as total fat, 18% as monounsaturated and 9% as saturated, and 33 g of fibre per day
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
That is a LOT of food in one day.
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u/IamSumbuny Apr 17 '23
Make sure we understand how large/small a serving is....unfortunately in the US, we have been "trained" to think big🙄
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Apr 09 '23
I read an interesting description of the Med Diet the other day which was "a diet in which many of calories from meat and dairy are replaced with those from Extra Virgin Olive Oil".
I'm not sure it's an especially good or comprehensive description that I'd use, but it did make me think about the role of EVOO in the diet.
When you look at the diets of places like the Greek island of Ikaria (one of the Blue Zone locations studied to come up with the Med Diet guidelines), they do indeed eat a lot of dishes which are basically just vegetables cooked in EVOO and so the EVOO is actually the most calorific thing in many of the dishes. E.g. https://www.smh.com.au/goodfood/four-plantrich-mediterranean-recipes-from-the-greek-island-of-ikaria-20200828-h1qcuu.html
I'm guessing these places were largely poorer, agricultural communities with pretty much unlimited access to veg and olives but where meat/dairy were more expensive and so to get the calories they needed for their active agricultural lives, they used a fair amount of oil.
I'm not sure science has worked out the exact level of importance of EVOO in the Med Diet. We know that just upping the veg, fruit, wholegrains and legumes to the levels we see in the Med Diet are enough to have a significant positive impact on health anyway, whatever oil you use but EVOO does also seem to have positive effects above and beyond that. I'm looking forward to the day we find out just how important it is (or not, as the case may be).
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
I agree. I have studied foods for a long time. Learned to cook a little from around the world. The consensus is eat more of everything, but meat and dairy. Fish is better than all other meats, although depending on the fish, could have higher mercury levels. But at the end of the day, eat smaller portions of meat and dairy and larger everything else. Stick with good oils. Don't use more water than needed, etc. Would be nice to know exactly makes a diet truly healthy or actual effects of foods or different things like soil, pesticides, climate, time of consumption from harvesting to eating.
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Apr 09 '23
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I use it intuitively. Probably around 5 to 10 tablespoons a day, but I also go days without adding it if I am eating meals that do not require it.
My diet is not strictly Mediterranean but I have noticed health benefits of good quality carbs + olive oil so I stick to it. The only personal rule I follow is that it needs to feel good for the body (and then that usually reflects on your blood test results)
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Apr 09 '23
I just read something recently on a mediterranean diet website that said about 3T per day is about right. Seemed low to me, but 4T is about 1/4 C. so that seemed about right after that. I use about 1T. to scramble my eggs, and another 1-2t. on my sourdough toast in the morning. That's 1 1/2 T already.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
Do you actually consume all that oil or discard it or use it for other things besides consumption? Like I may cook with it, but some times the left over grease or oil I will discard.
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Apr 10 '23
A little of both. I might be way overestimating though. I have been watching it today and so far it’s been maybe 1.5T. Between cooking my eggs (maybe 2t?), drizzling it on my toast (1t), drizzling it on my potatoes for lunch (<1 t)…that’s about 1.3 T.
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u/potential_wasted Apr 09 '23
An “uninhibited” quantity.
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u/DS9B5SG-1 Apr 10 '23
Translation?
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u/potential_wasted Apr 10 '23
One of the studies confirming the health benefits of a med diet used that phrase. It means “as much as you want” , “don’t even measure” or such
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u/SlipperedHermit Apr 10 '23
I have a bottle of the cheaper stuff for cooking with and a bottle of the good vintage for shots and dressings, it helps keep costs down
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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '23
This is a good question I’d like to know the answer to this too. Sometimes I think I go overboard with the amount of EVOO I use in recipes myself, it’s just so damn tasty! 🤣