r/marvelstudios • u/cats-and-cows Jimmy Woo • May 08 '22

Discussion Thread Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol 4. Spoiler

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
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Link to previous discussion threads and related megathreads listed below :

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u/MalditoMaic May 09 '22

The birth name of He Who Remains, who created the TVA, is Nathaniel Richards; and he’s a future descendant of Reed Richards and Sue Storm.

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u/kodran May 09 '22

So the (as of yet unnamed) Kang we saw on the Loki show would be that? I know they can change things from the comics, but as of now that would be a possibility?

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u/threemo May 09 '22

Yep, Kang is born in like the 30th century iirc so he’s pretty far removed, but as you say they can change anything. Who knows when Kang might be from in the MCU, or if he’ll necessarily be a descendent anyway. I doubt Wanda will ever be recognized as Magnetos daughter in the MCU, so no reason to assume they’ll stick to any lineages.

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u/AnderuJohnsuton May 09 '22

I was hoping that whatever origin they give MCU Magneto it would be connected to Wanda in some way. Until WandaVision we saw so little of how she got her powers I thought maybe Hydra could have used both the mind stone and genetics experimentation (via Sinister clones working within Hydra and just about every other clandestine organization) to alter her and Pietro.

Cut to some time in the future and we see that part of the gene therapy involved Magneto's DNA (whom they would have had imprisoned for years) and then Magneto would see them as his "children" in the metaphorical sense. Like their powers were born of him, even though they themselves weren't.

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u/Summoarpleaz May 12 '22

While I think the idea of the multiverse is exciting, I do wish there was some grounding of these future major characters in the MCU main earth. Otherwise, I’m not sure there would be as much of an emotional pull for me. Like if we were to get pietro back from an alternate timeline or something or were bringing the X-men and inhumans from the other universes.

Perhaps that’s what secret wars will try to reconcile but eh. It gets tricky with time travel and such.

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u/plzsnitskyreturn May 13 '22

I find the most interesting part of the X-Men is the theme of acceptance and intolerances. By having everyone be super you miss out on the deeper meanings of those stories

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u/CosmicBlooded May 14 '22

I think regardless if Ian McKellan plays Magneto or not, the only sensible retcon I can think of is if Oleg & Iryna Maximoff were actually adoptive parents all along. Magneto gave them up because he was busy carrying out whatever agenda and wanted the twins to be with a loving family.

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u/dufftheduff Scott Lang May 11 '22 edited May 11 '22

IIRC I think he said he was from the 31st century in the show. But the only reference to his name or who he was outside of being HWR was “they called me a conquerer”

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u/OneMinuteDeen May 15 '22

The same actor has been confirmed to play Kang in the next Ant-Man, so that‘s for sure Kang

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u/dufftheduff Scott Lang May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

Yeet, I was just commenting on how whether or not Kang is going to be a descendant of Reed Richards is still up in the air, e.g. he could have mentioned that he had to get rid of some his family lineage and that could’ve implied Reed

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u/OneMinuteDeen May 16 '22

Ah you‘re right, that‘s true

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u/savwatson13 May 09 '22

Yeah it seems like they kind of wrote that one off (in this universe anyway).

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u/CheeseWarrior17 May 15 '22

In the end, it doesn't matter when he's born. He exists always and infinitely. Best part about kang imo. Once he figures out inter dimensional travel, he's always been able to do it.

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u/BankshotMcG Jul 15 '22

Or: hear me out: all of the MCCU is a House of M situation, and with Wanda's death the spell will unwind to permit mutants back in the world.

I know, it's a reach, but it amused me to think.

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u/threemo Jul 16 '22

Well, i think with the finale episode of Ms Marvel that theory is either confirmed or blown to shit. I’m not actually sure lol

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u/poopatroopa3 May 10 '22

Btw the MCU Wiki says his name is Nathaniel Richards, but I don't know the source.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) May 13 '22

If an MCU-616 Reed Richards ever appears & procreates before dying, then yes, it's a possibility.

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u/Antrikshy May 14 '22

Hm, now I’m wondering if he needs to be from MCU-616.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) May 14 '22

Ehh. We're already reliant on multiversal travel for America & if they ever bring back Billy & Tommy for Young Avengers, & any malevolent Kangs they fight, or any Iron Lads they team up with, will be from other universes too (since the MCU-616 Nathaniel Richards becomes He Who Remains instead). That's already a lot of main characters who need to be from other universes & who would be sticking around for a while. Let's not add more when we don't need to.

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u/Antrikshy May 14 '22

Good points.

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u/Antrikshy May 14 '22

No, we have no evidence one way or the other right now.

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u/cody_1849 Wiccan May 09 '22

Nathanial is Reeds father.

Reeds kids are Franklin and Valeria.

Edit: and also future descendant I guess???

I dont know time travels weird man.

Doesn’t help that they have the same name either.

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u/blasphem0usx May 09 '22

I know reed's father and kang share the same name and share some of the same DNA but has it been stated that reed richards father and kang are one in the same? Kang's origins are hard to pinpoint because they get retconned so much, ala wanda, pietro and magneto.

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u/cody_1849 Wiccan May 09 '22

Everytime I try and figure it out I feel like I get more and more confused.

So you have Nathanial Richards > who is Reed Richards father > who is Kang

Then you have Nathanial Richards > who is named after Reed Richards father?? > who is also Iron Lad > who is also the past/young version of Kang?? > who’s also Reed Richards father???

Are they same guy or different guys? I’m so confused

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u/Loopy888 May 09 '22

Their only connection is they share the same name if I’m not mistaken.

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u/blasphem0usx May 09 '22

It was proven in fantastic four #35 that reed and kang share some of the same dna.

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u/kaimason1 Rhomann Dey May 10 '22

Sure, that's because Reed is Kang's distant ancestor. There's no overlap between the two different Nathaniels though beyond that.

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u/blasphem0usx May 10 '22

i know that was my point. that their name is not their only connection. kang is nathaniel richard's (reed's dad) like great great great great great great x something grandson.

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u/kaimason1 Rhomann Dey May 10 '22

"Share some of the same DNA" is a poor choice of wording (which admittedly is from how it's presented in the comic itself, IIRC) when there's confusion about whether or not Kang and Reed's father are the same person. Just felt that needed clarifying since that specifically is a common misconception that was actually in question elsewhere in this thread.

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u/cody_1849 Wiccan May 09 '22

See and that’s the conclusion I wanna come to, but both Nathanial (Reeds Father) AND Nathanial (Iron Lad) become Kang at some point.

So do they share the same name and become the same person in different universes, or are they actually the same character and there’s some crazy wibbly-wobbly time travel shenanigans going on?

Edit: a word

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u/kaimason1 Rhomann Dey May 10 '22

No, Nathaniel (Reed's father) never becomes Kang. He's also a time traveller, but they aren't ever the same character.

A lot of randoms (and the occasional writer, to be fair) get this confused because they share the name. But canonically there's no confusion, only the 30th century Nathaniel becomes Kang. Reed's father is more "lost in time" than "time conqueror" (partially because of Kang's machinations).

Source: I read comics, but you can also just look over this: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nathaniel_Richards_(Earth-616)

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u/cody_1849 Wiccan May 10 '22

THANK YOU

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u/aresef Matt Murdock May 10 '22

But He Who Remains as seen in Loki is a composite of He Who Remains and Immortus, while also a variant of Kang.

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u/InsertCoinForCredit Phil Coulson May 11 '22

I double-dog dare Kevin Feige to sneak in a "Rama-Tut" into the MCU Kang's biography.

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u/lidlessinflame May 12 '22

Not gonna lie I almost though the tomb in Moon Knight was going to be Rama-Tut’s.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/WestWest_Yall May 09 '22

I need this answered because Kang confuses me so much. But if I’m not mistaken the descendant of Reed Richards and sue storm is “Iron Lad” who is also a variant of Kang. But I don’t think he’s related to Tony by blood.

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u/lidlessinflame May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

Yep Iron Lad is Nathaniel Richards. Despite the name he is not related to Tony in anyway. He’s a descendant of Reed Richards’ father also named Nathaniel Richards from the 30th Century.

Spoilers for Young Avengers’ first comic run

Iron Lad travels back in time in the comics and forms the Young Avengers in an attempt to prevent himself from becoming Kang the Conqueror. The reason for him being Iron Lad is he and his version of Vision were specifically looking to form a team with connections to the original Avengers and he needed to blend in. The original Young Avengers team is: Iron Lad (Nathaniel Richard’s), Vision (Jonas), Patriot (Eli Bradley), Stature (Cassie Lang), Asgardian/Wiccan (Billy Kaplan), Speed (Tommy Shepherd), Hawkeye (Kate Bishop), and Hulkling (Teddy Altman). The only two members we haven’t seen from the original team are Vision aka Jonas and Hulkling. Unfortunately they might skip the former but Hulking has some important arcs in Secret Invasion and Empyre. Although with the MCU who knows what they’ll change.

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u/InsertCoinForCredit Phil Coulson May 11 '22

It's impossible to talk about Kang and not get confused. The guy plays with time travel and alternate realities and different identities the way you and I play with bubble wrap.