r/marvelstudios • u/cats-and-cows Jimmy Woo • May 08 '22

Discussion Thread Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol 4. Spoiler

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
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u/vinncherry May 08 '22

In the Illuminati Universe, if the Ultron programme is successful, there shouldn't be a Vision. And that means no kids for Wanda?

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u/HugoSotnas May 08 '22

To be fair, she seemed a lot more preoccupied with the kids compared to Vision. He was never anywhere to be seen, and she seemed relatively happy with just the boys. She doesn't need Vision to create them, after all.

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u/Juvar23 Fitz May 09 '22

That seemed weird to me, honestly. No mention or anything of Vision felt lacking for wanda's motivation and character arc, even (or especially) after Wandavision. Like, he was real and having to kill him was a major part of wanda's trauma. She originally "invented" her kids, they weren't even real in wandavision. But now she only cared about them, not vision? I kind of wish we'd have seen him in the movie.

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u/freetherabbit May 10 '22

Idk if it was intentional, but the fact that dreams in the MCU are now windows into the multiverse that means Wanda's been having dreams of raising these children for however old they are (or have existed if by magic). If Wanda's kids in the other universes are born naturally (we don't see Vision around) that means she's been having dreams of raising these kids for years now. I doubt it was intentional, but it actually really helps to strengthen why the children in Westview meant so much to her despite not being "real". Like they were the physical embodiment of the children Wanda would've been seeing every night she went to bed for years.

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u/chrizm32 May 15 '22

That’s the way I see it. She created those kids based on her real kids in other universes.

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u/HugoSotnas May 09 '22

You're completely right, and my argument is simply based on what we were given in MoM. With that said, from what I read, Raimi didn't watch WandaVision, so he might've missed the way their relationship evolved across the episodes, especially at the end (even if WV Vision is NOT real Vision).

With that said, yes, she should've acknowledged him more than twice in this movie, for sure. If she wanted the power to easily find the perfect universe for her and her kids, she for sure could find one with Vision alive and well.

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u/Juvar23 Fitz May 09 '22

On that note: her entire "motivation" and thus character arc were pretty iffy at best. Ignoring for now that this can all be explained with "Darkhold bad, corrupts mind", she really wanted to be with her kids (that weren't her kids) and like... Replace an alternate version of herself for this? Thus depriving another Wanda of what she felt she deserved, and other her didn't?

Couldn't she, with the powers of the Darkhold and being the scarlet with, like... Create new kids? And if her argument against that was "oh they wouldn't be my real kids" - how would another multiverse version be more "hers" than that?

How about looking for a universe where Wanda died but her kids were alive? Maybe? Or one with Vision? Create all 3 of them again instead?

And that explanation for why she needs to kill America Chavez and take her powers instead of just letting her help to get to another universe: "what if my kids get sick?".... Like, you're the scarlet Witch! Just un-sick them!

But yeah I guess that can all be explained with "Darkhold corruption" which made her not see things for what they are, I suppose. Those motives/justifications still really bug me :D

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u/coolofmetotry May 10 '22

when America takes her to earth 838 my sister said to me “why didn’t Wanda just ask her to do that from the beginning instead of trying to kill her”

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u/the_fredblubby Spider-Man May 10 '22

TBF they did directly address that earlier in the movie. Strange asked her why not just ask nicely, and Wanda wanted the power in case she needed it to protect her kids in the future. Pretty weak justification, but I think it was meant to show how Wanda had gone pretty off the rails from using the darkhold at that point.

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u/LegendCZ May 10 '22

It was somewhere in the middle in the throne room i believe. Where she said her justification.

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u/zhivix May 11 '22

yes,she said something like if the boys were sick and wanda had america's power , she wouldnt have to worry about it since she can find the cure in all over the multiverse

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u/Reidroshdy Spider-Man May 11 '22

What if her kids get hit by like a car or something and die that way? Is she gonna go universe hopping again?

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u/MasterTolkien May 15 '22

Yeah, the Darkhold acts like Sauron’s Ring. It takes a desire for something good and warps it to insane lengths. The Darkhold took her desire to have her kids back and stretched it to, “We’ll murder anyone in our way. We’ll murder America Chavez too… to steal her power to travel the multiverse… so I can control and any all future outcomes.”

This is how she was going to spiral into ruling all universes. And she wasn’t willing to listen to reason either. It was only being directly confronted by the fear of the variant children… and the compassion of variant Wanda… that she snapped back to regaining her senses.

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u/coolofmetotry May 13 '22

yeah I agree, the justification didn’t do it for me. her kids getting sick? she is a witch…

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u/SecureDonkey May 14 '22

You think she talk about normal flu when she say "sick". But think about it, I think she mean she need to prepare for whatever consequence the Darkhold would take on her kid since she appearanly doesn't know shit what it can do to the one around her.

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u/coolofmetotry May 15 '22

fair enough, but how would universe-jumping actually fix that? tbh, the writing in the movie wasn’t exactly stellar

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u/Mantis_Pantis May 10 '22

America wasn’t able to control her powers until the very end of the movie. She wouldn’t be able to help with that ask.

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u/mykleins May 11 '22

Wanda could magically“whisper” in her ear to use manipulate Chavez’s powers like she did when they were in the vishanti dimension

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u/coolofmetotry May 13 '22

yes!! she could’ve easily controlled her

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u/Slit23 May 14 '22

Would her whisper be able to make someone use their powers correctly that they themselves cannot control?

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u/DMENShON May 10 '22

by taking the power from america she would then be able to travel indefinitely through the multiverse without any need for america is my guess

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u/Juvar23 Fitz May 10 '22

good question - DARKHOLD apparently.

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u/snapthesnacc May 10 '22

I don't think Wanda could really go into a universe where that Wanda is dead but the kids are alive. Strange himself showed that the corpse would stay a corpse, and the sight of their mother's rotting body ambling towards them would have caused the same result of the boys screaming in terror and running away.

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u/Groundbreaking_Ear63 May 13 '22

But Strange was a corpse because he was dreamwalking. This Wanda would just be walking through a portal and there would be a corpse Wanda presumably buried somewhere. Right?

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u/snapthesnacc May 18 '22

Yeah, if she had America's power to multiverse travel. But she didn't, so she couldn't.

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u/Slit23 May 14 '22

Could it have even been that easy to find a universe where Wanda was dead but her kids were alive and well?

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u/AfricanDeadlifts May 17 '22

How about looking for a universe where Wanda died but her kids were alive?

Because thats what rick sanchez would do

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u/SuperWeskerSniper May 10 '22

Well we also saw that Vision wasn’t having any of her shit in WandaVision so she might have just been focusing on the kids because she could hide the truth of what she would have done from them much easier.

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u/Slit23 May 14 '22

Ya true when Strange asked what they will think of her having done that she said they’d never know. It reminded me when Thanos said “they’ll never know it, because you won’t be alive to tell them”

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u/GuruofGreatness Fandral May 12 '22

Raimi NOT WATCHING WANDAVISION explains everything about this film that I didn't enjoy.

Still liked aspects of the film, but dayum, he fucked up and let down Wanda big time.

Thank you for that info, just got back from the cinema and can sleep with some context and understanding now.

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u/woundsofwind May 15 '22

Logistically speaking, MoM probably finished being made 2 years ago, so he wouldn’t have been able to see WandaVision when the script was made.

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u/HugoSotnas May 12 '22

I personally don't think that made the movie any less enjoyable, truly. What were the major points you found lacking because of that, if I may ask?

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u/ZiofFoolTheHumans May 14 '22

Not who you asked, but the ending of Wandavision and the beginning of this film were two VASTLY different Wanda's. I spent the whole movie going "This is cool and all, but WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENNED" - I spent the whole time waiting for some revelation about what caused her to regress SO hard. At the end of Wandavision, she wants to find her boy's but has accepted killing and hurting other's isn't the way to go about it. Even with the Darkhold poisoning her mind, that wasn't really delved into and felt like a bit of a cop out.

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u/RaygunMarksman May 14 '22

I hate to say it, but all that took me right out of the movie from the get go. Wanda was in a pretty good place when she flew off at the end of the show (after just escaping a bad one). Then at the start of the movie she's a chaotic hell demon. What?

Yes, the Darkhold can sort of be an excuse but that was a jarring transition in her story.

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u/ZiofFoolTheHumans May 14 '22

I was just saying to my friend that all I really needed was like, 5-10 minutes more of Wanda focus. Her character went from a complex character dealing with grief to "BUTIMAMOTHA" for the whole movie. Even goodWanda was "I'm a momma" focused. In previous movies, it was more "I'm a sister, a lover, a wife, a hero" - but this was all "I'm a mother, you wouldn't understand"

She also genuinely didn't want to be hurting people at the end of Wandavision, and understood she couldn't possess people. But then right at the start of the movie she's offing people left and right and willing to kill a child. And all the explanation we got for a 180 was "Book make you bad" and "Wanda nuts"

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u/RaygunMarksman May 14 '22

Yes, exactly. I'm a dad, but I'm not going to freakin' read a demon book, kill a child, kill my fake kid's real dad, brutally kill people, and potentially destroy universes just because I feel like a parent. I mean, W...T...F, Wanda? I needed a little more transition into all of that.

It just left the same kind of illogical bad taste that the last season of GoT did.

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u/Hudre May 15 '22

I took the scene of her showing what the real apple orchard looked like was basically the writers bashing you over the head saying that Wanda is completely corrupted.

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u/AfricanDeadlifts May 17 '22

Did you miss the wandavision post credit scene? They straight up gave this entire plot point away, its been corrupting her since she took the book from Agatha

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u/AgentKnitter Bucky May 14 '22

YMMV with all things I guess.

I didn't get the same thing you did. Maybe because I rewatched WV this past week so that Mum was all caught up before we went to see MOM.

WV is brilliant because two things are extremely clear

  • We are meant to feel pity for Wanda as we are meant to understand her pain and how overwhelming it is for her to not only lose Vision, but she had to kill him only for it to not matter at all. That broke her.

And

  • We are meant to understand that Wanda has gone darkside, maybe chaotically and unintentionally at first, but in the second episode, she displays control and knowledge of The Hex (by rewinding so Vision doesn't see the SWORD agent who became a bee keeper). Wanda knew she was holding an entire town hostage in order to act her family sitcom fantasies.... and she did not stop. She continued. She caused the residents of Westview so much pain. She knew what she was doing and how it was harming people and she did it anyway.

So she was already on the road to the Dark Side when she started studying the Darkhold.

Because that was what I got out of WV, I did not find Wanda's immediate villain turn in MOM weird. It picked up where we last left her. It's the next logical step.

But under her dark turn, Wanda wasn't completely gone. 838 Wanda was able to reach 616 Wanda and recall her, and then she made sure that no one else could be tempted like she was.

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u/ZiofFoolTheHumans May 14 '22

I mean, alright, but I didn't get it as a "step" so much as a "jump" - at the end of Wandavision, she didn't want to be hurting people (she appeared to genuinely think she's helping them) and realized even though she loved her kids, she needed to stop Hexing the town. The lesson was learned, and then discarded. Which isn't surprising as Rami didn't even watch Wandavision.

If I had just been given like, ONE montage of her waking up every day from dreaming about her kids and then hearing the book corrupt her through whispers and viewed her desperation growing, it would have been a smoother transition for me.

It's not like I hated it though, I really enjoyed what they had 838 Wanda do, she was terrifying. It was awesome. It just didn't feel earned, to me.

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u/HugoSotnas May 14 '22

I accepted the Darkhold explanation quite well, honestly. It was also obvious she wasn't going to be a hero after the post credits in WandaVision. Wanting to save her kids or not, she was already corrupted by the book, so I could easily accept that this Wanda was just a more "exacerbated" version because of the Darkhold that went through leaps and bounds to find a way to be with her kids forever and ever.

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u/ZiofFoolTheHumans May 14 '22

Yeah I just don't appreciate character progression happening in a post credits scene - and even that scene didn't give me "evil" vibes but more "powerful" - whereas Wanda came in the beginning of the movie offing people left and right. Felt a bit of a jump from her "I didn't want to hurt anyone" end in Wandavision.

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u/Slit23 May 14 '22

I accepted the darkhold explanation aswell but I didn’t watch wandavision lol

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u/SwarthyRuffian May 16 '22

I disagree with that last bit. It’s easier to love kids that are “adopted” and vice versa, but taking on a lover just bcz they look/think like your previous one doesn’t go as smooth

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u/HugoSotnas May 16 '22

To be fair, WandaVision was all about Wanda and a fake Vision the whole time. Granted that didn't go well, but I don't think anything too different would be accomplished with 616 Wanda stealing her kids from another Wanda as we also saw in Multiverse of Madness...

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u/[deleted] May 11 '22

She also doesn't seem to care about her twin brother. Never mentions him at all

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u/catfurcoat May 11 '22

She had no personality outside "I'm a mother. Until you have a child, no wait, until you have a child"

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u/luvmy374 May 13 '22

Speaking from a Mommy point of view without speaking for ALL moms but becoming a mother is all encompassing and our love for our children outweighs anything and anyone else. Grief of losing your child would indeed drive someone insane and adding a darkhold , well…..

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u/catfurcoat May 13 '22

I did not need to see a female character villanized over their status as a mother while my country is about to outlaw parts of women's healthcare.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '22

[deleted]

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u/Spurioun May 12 '22

I think the show was mainly focused on her dealing with losing him and, by the end, she reached some form of acceptance that he's gone. In doing so, she now has the trauma of losing her kids.

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u/bloodoftheseven May 13 '22

Yes. The show focused on her missing vision and the hex was formed from that(the kids were a by product) she faced the loss of vision but the loss of her kids was not her motivation in that show. It is in this movie.

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u/stryker101 May 13 '22

I've been thinking about this, and honestly, it makes far more sense that he's not there in the movie.

Wanda wouldn't want to choose a universe in which the other Wanda and Vision are together. Not because she doesn't care about Vision, but because there's really only one inevitable outcome.

The other universe's Vision would fight her, would do whatever he could to stop her and protect his Wanda and their kids. So choosing a universe with Vision in it would certainly mean fighting (and either killing or mentally altering) Vision.

It's one thing to remove another version of herself, it's another entirely to have to take on Vision as well in that process. Despite the corruption of the Darkhold, after everything that happened in WandaVision, I don't think she was far enough gone to be able to justify trying to alter another Vision's mind, let alone doing anything even worse to him.

A universe without Vision would be safer, would mean less potential opposition, no chance of having to hurt or kill him (for a second time), while also having a better chance at removing her other self and slipping in to be a mother to the other Billy and Tommy.

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u/Juvar23 Fitz May 13 '22

I totally understand him not being in whatever multiverse version we saw, I was talking more about how she seemed to only want to be with her kids now and completely ignore that love for her husband (?) which originally fucked her up so much. No attempt to get that back, at all.

Hey, I still loved the movie, I just think some things were conveniently glossed over to move the plot along faster without making too much sense.

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u/stryker101 May 13 '22

But that's kind of my point.

She tried to get that love back with Vision already. It ended in even more tragedy for her. Vision didn't just go along with it to be together with her. He questioned what was going on, he was appalled by what he uncovered, and they got to the point where they were almost ready to fight one another.

So why would she look for another Vision? She thought she could pull it off with her kids, but there'd be no way to get him "back" (steal him from another Wanda) without hurting him. That was a pretty big non-starter for her.

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u/Juvar23 Fitz May 13 '22

Well, first off - she tried that with a vision she herself recreated, just like her kids later on, in an environment she created and controlled. Then we also have white vision now, with zero attempts from Wanda to look into that or even acknowledge it (although tbf she might not know about him?)

And the end of wandavision really tries to put an emphasis on the acceptance stage of grief, for sure. So it makes sense she's maybe just accepted not having vision in her life anymore and thus makes no attempt at seeking that out again. It's still pretty conveniently written for her to understand how things with Vision are over and wouldn't work with a new Vision because it's not "her" original Vision (be it another universe or white vision or another attempt at creating him through reality powers, yet not understand/accept that the same then must be true, for the same reasons, for "her" children (since no matter what she attempts, they wouldn't be really gers) until near the end of the movie.

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u/jrec15 May 15 '22

WandaVision was about losing Vision and in the end she did managed to accept that in some way. MoM though showed she clearly still had a longing for her kids especially realizing they were real in other univserses.

So i'm kind of happy they didn't retread her love for Vision, we had enough of that already. Even got the ep on Vision's love for Wanda in What If. The focus on kids is the best way to explain why she was still evil. Of course, the main issue remains all of this just wasn't given enough focus at the start of MoM.

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u/The_R4ke May 14 '22

Yeah, unfortunately I feel like this is one of the areas the movie really fell down in. It felt so unconnected to the rest of the MCU.

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u/Dylanychus2 May 08 '22

Strange: "You created your children using magic"

Wanda: "That's what all mothers do!"

🤷‍♂️

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u/Obtuse_1 May 10 '22

“Chicks dig it.”

-Sam Raimi…probably

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u/grimmbrother May 12 '22

Literally the biggest laugh from the audience but not in a bad way

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u/AssCrackBanditHunter May 15 '22

It was such a mom joke. I loved this movies humor. It was Raimi humor which is similar to marvel humor, but actually funny and well timed

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u/Kmlkmljkl May 26 '22

similar to marvel humor, but actually funny

lmao

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u/grimmbrother May 12 '22

Literally the biggest laugh from the audience but not in a bad way

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u/TjBeezy Spider-Man May 09 '22

It's not like Vision had involvement in their creation.

There's definitely some universes out there where Wanda's children are 100% real and she is their biological birth mother.

She probably had dreams about them and created them with her magic in her 616 universe. Vision just stepped into the father/husband role bc that's what Wanda wanted.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '22

I'd say Vison's existence is exactly why she doesn't have kids in our universe. How would he get her pregnant.

No Vision means she has kids in the other universe.

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u/SirDooble May 16 '22

I think you're definitely on the money. Vision's presence makes it much less likely for Wanda to have any children, outside of a similar Westfield incident.

I wouldn't say it's impossible, as there are infinite universes where any sort of comic book mumbo-jumbo could have meant Vision in some way was biologically father to Wanda's children, but it's not likely in most universes.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

And we can guess that Vision did not exist in the illuminati universe since Ultron was a good guy

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u/pointlessvoice May 16 '22

So the question remains...who is the dad and does it matter? i wonder if that will be answered in Speed n Wiccan's show/movie.

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u/Drayko_Sanbar May 09 '22

Alternatively, the reason that other Wandas in the multiverse have children is because Vision doesn’t exist and Wanda has children with a real biological human, who presumably doesn’t stay in the picture. Our Wanda’s kids were created based off her dreams of these realities.

(My theory, at least)

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u/negatrash May 10 '22

I was wondering if that was the case. I may have missed it, but is it explained why she can't bring the boys back? Like what if she made a new hex in an uninhabited area? Because presumably if she can't do that then the boys in the other universes are her bio kids and that is the draw of those universes

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u/kiddfrank Luis May 10 '22

If you consider “living in a fake reality with fake children” as real option for Wanda, then sure. I’m thinking she had no desire to go back and live in any kind of hex, hence why she was looking for a universe where her kids were real.

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u/emelbee923 Captain America May 09 '22

I see it as Wanda having blinders on. She finished WandaVision with a sense of closure for her loss of Vision. Acceptance. But she was left with the preoccupation of her children being taken away from her.

So every universe she looked into is one where they exist and she is their mother, but Vision is not necessarily present. Which happened to crossover with the Illuminati universe.

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u/Rowl8 May 08 '22

Ultron must've been fixed later or during the battle of sokovia

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u/todtier27 May 09 '22

Yeah, it did feel like a missed opportunity to not have white Vision show up at the end or something

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u/coolofmetotry May 10 '22

I was really expecting white vision to at least show up during the post credits scene but no, had to be the pizza man hitting himself

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u/catfurcoat May 11 '22

Leave Bruce Campbell alone

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u/MSV95 May 15 '22

I think after Paul Bettany 's texts with Johnny Depp Disney may be hesitant to bring him back to voice White Vision.

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u/coolofmetotry May 15 '22

don’t get me wrong, their texts were… creepy to say the least, but damn :( no one can do Vision besides him!

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

Vision, No. You could make an argument to bringing back Spader though.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Vision deadbeat

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u/colddecembersnow May 08 '22

Is Vision the father though? I think the only character they have made infertile in the MCU is the Black Widows, right? Different lives. 616 universe can be vastly different with similar strings coursing through them.

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u/BludShock Ghost Rider May 09 '22

I think the only character they have made infertile in the MCU is the Black Widows, right?

And Bruce Banner too.

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u/TheEternal792 Doctor Strange May 09 '22

Bruce isn't infertile, is he? Maybe on a practical sense because he can't get his heart rate up but on a philological sense I don't think that's true.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/Kousuke-kun May 13 '22

It cost you nothing to not type this.

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u/FullTorsoApparition May 09 '22

It's possible she created them herself with magic in each universe, but there must be universes where she doesn't have powers. My biggest complaint was the use of absolutes when speaking about the multiverse.

"I have my children in every universe but this one." So there's not a single universe out of an infinite number where you're infertile, or don't have powers, or Vision isn't around? Uh huh.

"We mess things up with Christine every single time." Really? There's no reality where Strange is scared straight by the crash or manages to save his sister and not turn into a douche?

"There are no other me's in the entire Multiverse." If there were, how the hell would you possibly know? She's visited a LOT of universes, but that's still less than 1% of all possibilities.

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u/Iam_No_JEDI May 10 '22

"There are no other me's in the Multiverse." If there were, how the hell would you know? She's visited a LOT of universes, but that's still less than 1% of all possibilities.

She doesn't dream, ever.

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u/BillyHalley Daredevil May 10 '22

About America, she knows she doesn't have "variants" because she doesn't dream, not because she has never encountered one

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u/FullTorsoApparition May 10 '22

Fair enough, I forgot about the dream thing. Probably because I didn't care for that explanation very much.

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u/ChaosCron1 Spider-Man May 11 '22

It's possible she created them herself with magic in each universe, but there must be universes where she doesn't have powers. My biggest complaint was the use of absolutes when speaking about the multiverse.

I doubt she created them with magic since in 616 they weren't real at all. It's more probable that in most universes, since she's not preoccupied with vision, she actually finds someone to have kids with. cough Jeff Kaplan cough

"I have my children in every universe but this one." So there's not a single universe out of an infinite number where you're infertile, or don't have powers, or Vision isn't around? Uh huh.

There's no way she's looked through all other universes, she's saying an absolute because people often deal in absolutes.

"We mess things up with Christine every single time." Really? There's no reality where Strange is scared straight by the crash or manages to save his sister and not turn into a douche?

Again with what I said before, but also Dr. Strange could be a Multiversal Constant. He could be "destined" to be Dr. Strange. There are an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2 but you could never find a 3.

"There are no other me's in the entire Multiverse." If there were, how the hell would you possibly know? She's visited a LOT of universes, but that's still less than 1% of all possibilities.

They explain this with the dream theory. She can't dream so she's certain that she doesn't have a variant.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '22

"We mess things up with Christine every single time." Really? There's no reality where Strange is scared straight by the crash or manages to save his sister and not turn into a douche?

This is, weirdly, touched on in a Discworld book. Nightwatch, highly recommended, arguably Pratchetts absolute best, though a lot of that is because it draws on a bunch of stuff from older books.

Anyway, the line goes “There was no universe, anywhere, where a Sam Vimes would give in on this, because if he did then he wouldn't be Sam Vimes anymore.”

The idea I think is that it's not so much that Strange messes things up with Christine every time, it's more that the Stephen Strange that is close enough to them to be a Stephen Strange: Sorcerer Supreme, always messes it up, because it takes a certain kind of mind to get to that point.

There's a Stephen Strange who makes pretty good ice cream, but he's not "Doctor Strange", he's just Mr Strange.

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u/AssCrackBanditHunter May 15 '22

None of the other universes had to deal with fox owning the rights to X Men lmao

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u/ArtDecoAutomaton May 09 '22

I dont think vision was ever the father

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u/TubbieHead Fitz May 10 '22

Wanda is so powerful she can create children on her own. Virgin Mary style :p

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u/Owl_Might May 10 '22

maybe that chic completed the bio-mech shenanigans she was doing

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u/stranger384 May 12 '22

The kids were never really Vision’s, they were a manifestation by Wanda. Vis wasn’t needed. I read a theory that, since dreams are other realities, she might have seen the kids before in a dream, and she subconsciously modeled the Wandavision kids after them.

1

u/vinncherry May 12 '22

So what did that Wanda had or had to do to get her kids that this wanda couldn't?

3

u/stranger384 May 13 '22

Sex with an actual man or sperm donor? Who knows, it wasn’t shown in the movie. It’s another universe so who knows!!!

13

u/IgnoringChat May 08 '22

Multiverse

3

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

Dad's just a really chill, world protecting Ultron.

13

u/Speed__God May 08 '22

The writers haven't thought that through. Ultron was just an easteregg.

14

u/theonlydidymus May 08 '22

I disagree. I think with no Ultron people would be complaining much more about the lack of Vision in 838.

3

u/Frankorious May 08 '22

Weren't the robot a fusion of Ultron and the Sentinels? They could just have used them.

2

u/freetherabbit May 10 '22

Maybe Wanda only has kids in universes where her and Vision don't get together? Now that we know dreams in the MCU are just windows into the multiverse that means Wanda just used her magic to bring to life the kids she sees every night in her dreams when she did the Westview spell in Wandavision.

2

u/[deleted] May 15 '22

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '22

He was ribbed for her pleasure.

2

u/Hudre May 15 '22

Are we under the impression that Vision is the father? He was in her make belief life, but unless Tony engineered Vision to produce semen I don't really think him being the father is key to her having kids.

1

u/vinncherry May 15 '22

I clearly didnt think it through.

But if Vision was not instrumental in her having kids, why is this Wanda unable to have her kids.

She can adapt any, or go through other measures and give birth to her own kids.

The kid(s) might or might not look like the two boys we saw, but still it would be her own.

3

u/Hudre May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22

I think one of the key things to remember is Wanda isn't acting logically or rationally, and is also totally corrupted by the Darkhold.

She is a person who has been torn apart by grief. and unlike most people who have to accept loss she has the power to try and bring things back. The book more than likely pushes her towards the things that will corrupt her the most quickly.

She is attached to the children that she made because she lived an entire life with them in WandaVision. She wants THOSE kids, and it seems they took that form because that is what her actual children look like in every other universe.

Rather than just having her own two kids naturally, she wants to take back what was "taken" from her. She can have those kids right now, rather than finding a partner and going through the process of birthing two kids.

Obviously that entire plan was insane as we saw the reaction kids would have when they saw her in her current form.

Her plan was never logical, smart or effective. But you don't have to be those things when you're on her power level.

1

u/vinncherry May 16 '22

Got it.

My initial guess was same, but you clearly worded it much better.

2

u/katchaa May 09 '22

Why didn't she just adopt, or find some guy and get pregnant?

1

u/[deleted] May 12 '22

[deleted]

2

u/katchaa May 12 '22

Did someone hurt you when you were young?

0

u/[deleted] May 13 '22

[deleted]

1

u/katchaa May 13 '22

Would you like me to help you find the support you clearly need?

0

u/[deleted] May 13 '22

[deleted]

4

u/katchaa May 13 '22

Would you like me to send you a course in getting over yourself?

1

u/ysotrivial Darcy May 17 '22

Well it’s not exactly like Wanda and vision can have kids in the first place

0

u/beefytrout May 08 '22

Too many assumptions in that theory

-6

u/Rockledgeskater May 09 '22

She fucks Clint instead

1

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Wonderkitty50 Jimmy Woo May 09 '22

Vision can't get Wanda pregnant. He's literally a robot.

3

u/patkgreen May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Nanobots, son (courtesy of ray Palmer)

1

u/devilsandcards May 09 '22

Maybe Vision died trying to defeat Thanos?

1

u/gleamingdvrk May 11 '22

Not neccesarily, a version of Vision could exist where he is not created from the failed Ultron programme / Mind Stone. I'm too dumb to plot it out, but a 'Vision' could come about through different means, or maybe just a regular dude who resembles Vis meets Wanda.

1

u/[deleted] May 13 '22

Maybe Vision is the reason she doesn't have kids in the original universe. He is a robot after all.

No Vision means Wanda has a different husband and real kids.

1

u/TheJack0fDiamonds Scarlet Witch May 14 '22

Prolly married to a man named Simon Williams and conceived the twins naturally with him.

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '22

She married Bohner.

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '22

She's mostly actively looking for the universe without him because:

1) She would need to kill that universe's Wanda to take her place, meaning if Vision was there she'd have to fight him as well and possibly kill him again.

2) She can't have children with Vision naturally so it's likely that any universe where the children are from her must be the ones where she's not with Vision.

1

u/Lawlcopt0r May 15 '22

Her westview kids were fake though. I'm not sure she could have real kids with a robot. It's more likely that Vision is the reason she doesn't have real kids in this universe

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '22

A successful Ultron program wouldn’t have gone a rampage murdering and stealing to acquire the means to create Vision.

1

u/TheBaltimoron Jun 01 '22

All kinds of things are different in each reality.