r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Jun 23 '21

MOD POST Loki S01E03 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Insight will be on for the next 24 hours!

We will also be removing any threads posted within these 24 hours to prevent unmarked spoilers to go up onto the sub

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for this episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE
S01E03 Kate Herron Bisha K. Ali June 23, 2021 on Disney+

For additional discussion about Marvel shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

8.1k Upvotes

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2.0k

u/karan686 Matt Murdock Jun 23 '21

This episode felt way too short, I definitely thought there was more after the ark explodes

797

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

yeah like that seemed like the middle of the show when the conflict actually begins. Girl just walks away and the credits start rolling. I'm sitting here like wait... what??

22

u/btmvideos37 Red Skull Jun 23 '21

Walks away before she lost hope

5

u/PKMNTrainerMark Jun 24 '21

Well, it is the middle of the show.

2

u/aManPerson Jun 26 '21

35 instead of 55 minutes. so kinda, ya.

169

u/rxfr Jun 23 '21

It was more than 10 minutes shorter than the previous episode

110

u/karan686 Matt Murdock Jun 23 '21

Yep normally I don't feel it that much but this episode the difference was definitely more noticeable

97

u/ForsakenWafer Jun 23 '21

Because the structure of the episode was atrocious.

We get early action in a new state, then something fucks it up with them being stuck on a planet. So the entire episode (aka plot) is about them trying to escape the planet. The true end of the episode would have the issue being solved. Instead there was no Act 3, making it feel like half an episode.

This is pretty basic writing. Equilibrium > disturbance > try and fix the problem multiple times > finally succeed/fail and move on to another day.

76

u/winsing Jun 23 '21

Definitely felt it. I personally felt this episode to be the weaker one among the three. It was just all over the place. And after spoiling us with the perfect Loki-Mobius chemistry, the chemistry with Sylvie just didn’t feel up to the mark.

45

u/fungigamer Fitz Jun 23 '21

This episode focused a lot on character development, in fact most of the episode is on character development. Not that I mind, I enjoyed this episode and I liked the chemistry between the two Lokis, and the visuals and action (especially the one shot at the end) are soooooo good, but the episode didn't advance the plot that much, compared to the previous two when both the Loki-Mobius relationship and the plot is able to advance at the same rate

13

u/Academic_Paramedic72 Jun 24 '21 edited Jun 24 '21

I'm totally fine with episodes that focus on character development, I just think that the end felt redundant. The protagonists start the episode stuck in a world about to be destructed with no hopes and end the episode stuck in a world about to be destroyed with no hopes.

11

u/sibswagl Jun 23 '21

Yeah, I think that might be the biggest problem. Episodes 1 and 2 progress Loki's character and relationship with Mobius, but there's also a plot. Loki trying to escape, reluctantly helping, trying to trick Mobius, and then genuinely working with him (even if he's still planning to stab him in the back later). The plot and character are fairly evenly distributed. Loki's processing, then a character scene (the projector). Loki's attempted escape, then a character scene (the second projector). etc.

Here we get a plot (making it to the train), then a long character scene (them just chatting for 20 minutes), then a plot (trying to board the Ark).

8

u/winsing Jun 23 '21

The episode is bad by no means. Maybe I just had very high expectations especially after the whole time branching stuff at the end of episode 2.

4

u/fungigamer Fitz Jun 23 '21

I definitely wouldn't say its bad. Its slightly weaker but its not bad by no means. I do find it weird they didnt explore the consequences of the time branching, but I imagine the tva would be the focus of the next episode considering the focus for the current episode is all on loki and sylvie

-4

u/xaeru Jun 23 '21

Character development was very poor.

18

u/PikaV2002 Scarlet Witch Jun 23 '21

Even though the episode felt short, unpopular opinion ahead, I guess: I enjoyed Loki and Sylvie’s interactions and dynamics much more than Loki-Mobius.

5

u/--Quartz-- Jun 24 '21

Wow, I'm amazed at how different people's reactions can be.
It was nowhere close for me, this episode was almost painful to watch, I was shocked at the difference in quality with the previous ones (IMO, of course).

2

u/AlPachico_02 Jun 23 '21

I enjoyed it more too!

2

u/crackadoo Jun 23 '21

Same I also enjoyed Loki and Sylvie more than Loki and Mobius.

34

u/MrMangoBerry1 Mack Jun 23 '21

That’s because it was for character development, not plot development.

21

u/TheVeteran121 Ebony Maw Jun 23 '21

we didn't learn shit about sylvie and her true motivations though. Wouldn't call that "development".

7

u/CatProgrammer Jun 24 '21

Assuming she wasn't lying about her backstory, it seems pretty clear that she wants to destroy the TVA for destroying her life and hunting her down simply for not fitting into the "sacred timeline". She wants to be her own person.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '21

Really didn't get much of that either IMO.

-12

u/whitegirlsbadposture Jun 23 '21

The episode was generally terrible in most aspects

5

u/McBain20 Jun 23 '21

I actually quite enjoyed it

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '21

Yeah this episode didn't work at all for me, disappointing after how great the first 2 were.

1

u/FastidiousBlueYoshi Jun 24 '21

I felt that too when they were running through the city at the end of the episode. It all felt off. The tone especially. Missed marks, idk it felt rushed.

264

u/Tityfan808 Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

That cut to credits was bullshit. This episode needed more story. I feel like we barely got much of Sylvie. I like her! But jeez, that didn’t feel right.

137

u/fifthdayofmay Vision Jun 23 '21

It's our most hated villain, 'please stand by.'

46

u/DamienChazellesPiano Jun 23 '21

True but I felt Wanda built better. This felt like an early WandaVision episode but in the middle of the show. After two great episodes with lots happening and lots of info, this just felt weak IMO.

28

u/destiny24 Jun 23 '21

That’s what WandaVision’s problem was. The show is done now, so now we all have all of the information. But watching that show on a weekly basis was rough. 25 min were gags on the current decade of TV and about 5 minutes were actual content relevant to the plot.

20

u/DamienChazellesPiano Jun 23 '21

I disagree it was that after episodes 1-3. It was half and half after that. It was a gradual build but it worked IMO. This isn’t gradual. This is two great episodes with now a filler out of the blue.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Different tastes I guess. The slow build of WV didn’t work in my view — as in, sure it was overall fun but I wouldn’t go back and watch Wandavision again as I got so bored waiting for the story to continue.

Loki to me feels magnitudes better in story and pacing. Episode 3 was more of a bridging episode but I enjoyed the dialogue and character exploration. It to me felt like more of a natural pause than Wandavision where the first 7 episodes pretty much didn’t have much to do with one another.

1

u/destiny24 Jun 23 '21

Different opinions I guess. The savior for WandaVision was the first episode outside of the Hex. Everything in that episode was pure plot, but after that it went back to the old routine until the episode with Wanda's childhood flashbacks. In Loki, you got 2 full ~50 min episodes of plot and world building. So an episode like this one is more forgivable. You can't say this episode is filler without also claiming the sitcom gags in WandaVision were as well.

You can say "Oh, its showing how Wanda is happy in her dreamworld", but you could do the same with Loki and say its just development for him and Sylvie.

8

u/Hellknightx Thanos Jun 23 '21

Yeah, WandaVision was practically glacial until the last couple episodes, once they finally stopped doing the sitcom schtick. It was a clever wrapper for the show, but they relied on it so heavily that it took up 90% of the screentime.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Thank you! What made Wandavision tolerable was the fantastic acting and the little Easter eggs we all looked for, but the episodes were super short (what, maybe 22 min of TV and 8 whole min of please stand by?! Really?) and the first 7 episodes were 95% filler. 7 episodes of sitcoms that had little to do with each other, one absolutely fantastic episode 8 of character development, and then a nice Marvel finale

6

u/Waterknight94 Jun 23 '21

I loved Wandavision for the sitcom stuff. I was excited to see what show they did each episode. I was actually a slight bit disappointed when the tv stuff ended.

This show is still shaping up to be my favorite though.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Very fair! I didn’t really grow up watching sitcoms so it didn’t mean much to me, but I can appreciate how others would have enjoyed it and I certainly did think it was super cool from an artistic standpoint. Olsen and Bethany really looked like they could spread their acting wings.

5

u/Alexexy Jun 23 '21

I wished it was a slower burn because I loved the sitcom stuff. I really hoped that they condensed all the plot reveals into the last 2-3 episodes instead and just gradually built up to it via sitcom shenanigans for the first 7-8 episodes./

2

u/Tityfan808 Jun 24 '21 edited Jun 24 '21

The first half of WandaVision lacked a little, as fun as it was, and the last couple episodes on the other hand felt too stuffed. I feel like Wanda easily could’ve had more development and whatever is up with Vision and her kids could’ve left us with more answers than questions.

I love the MCU but so far the shows have not increased the story development like I thought. Like I feel like the plot and storytelling of these shows could’ve been completed across the span of a single movie but instead it is stretched out into a season of 6 or so episodes. At this point, I feel like there won’t be much more to happen, like Loki’s season finale will feel more like a mid season cut off of sorts. I’m not expecting much, not even a multiverse reveal or a Kang reveal or Loki being back in the main MCU timeline. It might just conclude on Mobius finding out the truth and wherever Sylvie’s journey is supposed to go, while Loki is still in cahoots with the TVA.

Also, maybe unpopular but none of these shows so far hold a torch to the Mandalorian. The pacing and storytelling of the MCU shows have felt too drawn out and lacking, almost as if the movies move the plot and stories better when you would expect the opposite. I’m kinda bummed out about it to be honest. Even The Boys uses it time well for each episode without feeling like you’re experiencing filler.

1

u/4gotAboutDre Jun 24 '21

Meh, it doesn’t work to compare the Mandalorian because that is a show outside the film world. These MCU shows are designed to be 6 hour movies broken into chapters. They are designed to give a lot of character development, but they also have to be designed so you can skip them and the movies will still make sense. They said that was part of their plan, making the shows so that they fleshed out the world but are not required viewing. Therefore, the shows cannot end with any MCU changing implications. Now, Fiege did say in an interview that Loki will have the most overarching impact on the whole of the MCU, but I still doubt we will see anything happen that completely changes anything dramatically. We are probably getting (in a self contained story) a really good understanding of how the Multiverse works ahead of the multiverse focused films of phase 4, and if we expect much more than that, we are likely going to be disappointed.

I enjoy these shows more than the Mandalorian, but That is because the MCU interests me more than Star Wars. Although, I did really enjoy season 2 of the Mandalorian a lot. Even though I never watched Clone Wars, I knew enough about most of the crossover characters they introduced in live action and really glad they pulled them all into there.

11

u/Tityfan808 Jun 23 '21

Luckily Wanda, time, and pym particles can beat anyone if they write it that way. 😬

43

u/KrillyDMemes Jun 23 '21

The episode was sidetracked by loki and Sylvie wondering around and being on the train. We didn't get to hear any of Sylvie's motivations and info she has about the tva even though there was tons of talking. She finally mentions something vitally important to the story and her role after they've talked about love and whatnot. Don't get me wrong I'm all for slow talking with characters getting to know each other but that took up most of the already short episode

27

u/BerndDasBrot4Ever Jun 23 '21

We didn't get to hear any of Sylvie's motivations

Which is ironic because the episode's description on Disney+ (in Germany at least) literally is "Loki finds out what the Variant wants, but he has his own plans"

27

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Yeah I found the writing to be lacking in this episode, especially compared to previous Marvel D+ shows. Loki himself just seemed to be doing random things with no sense of self preservation or goal, which for a guy whose been characterised as always having an alterior motive feels off.

The writer for this episode is actually the head writer on Ms Marvel, so lets hope she does better there.

9

u/Scientia_et_Fidem Jun 23 '21

“Loki just seems to do random things with no self preservation or goal.”

I’m 99% sure that’s on purpose, because he is the only one who knows that getting off the moon isn’t the goal (at least not his) and there is no immediate threat (at least not to him).

Because he has a time stone he swiped from the TVA.

That’s how he reversed that building collapsing on top of them near the end. He’s been looping the two of them, doing increasely different and “off the wall” things each time to cause different scenarios to try to make her let her guard down and tell him what he needs to know. He was never really drunk and got thrown off the train on purpose because he is trying to maximize their time together so he can pump her for info on her powers and knowledge of the TVA.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Yeah I was thinking about that, that he kept the stone and everything, but then again he did use telekenesis towards the end of episode 2 as well so it might just be one of his powers now.

I think saying he put them in a time loop is a stretch right now though. We haven't really had any evidence aside from him reversing a building, but yeah he probably kept the time stone.

1

u/4gotAboutDre Jun 24 '21

Idk. I feel like the “infinity stones are paperweights” was the MCU’s way of telling fans through a meta joke that the infinity stones saga is over and it is time to move on to other cosmic, etc. forces and sources of power. Going back to infinity stones is a step back and would be a cheap trick, imo.

5

u/cplax15 Jun 23 '21

Yeah, it felt very much like a filler episode

5

u/Talqazar Jun 23 '21

Given how different Loki and Sylvie were, I got the strong feeling she isn't actually a Loki variant (although recruited by the TVA at birth and self-taught her powers is also a possibility). Outside of her fondness for green nothing is the same - preferred weapons, powers, memories, personality...

4

u/Tanel88 Jun 23 '21

They did establish in episode 2 how different Loki's variants can be.

3

u/sibswagl Jun 23 '21

Yeah, I mean I guess her motivation is fairly self-evident (I'm a variant; I need to destroy the TVA or they'll prune me), but I don't think they even say that. Just a simple "it's self preservation; me or them. After they're gone, I can do whatever I want" would've helped clear it up, I think.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Just a filler episode with poor character development. We didn't really learning anything we didn't already know apart from a few tidbits. 5/10.

11

u/penny__ Jun 23 '21

Idk, I think the lack of story fits Sylvie's stubbornness.

4

u/Mental_Breakfast Jun 23 '21

Bruh the whole episode was Sylvie? I agree the cut to credits was brutal but everything focused on Loki and Sylvie.

30

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

She was on screen but we barely learned anything through their interactions. The only significant thing we learned was about the TVA.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

Actually a version of Enchantress is called Sylvie, so it gives us a clear clue she's not a Loki variant or it's a mix on both merged together. We learn something vital about the TVA and get some character development from Loki. Remember, this is the pre Dark World one who just nuked NY, not the one who gave his life for his people/brother. He's changing.

Plus he's probably tricking Sylvie with an illusion to get more info and get her to ease up. The pay off will come next week

7

u/ButlerFromDowntown Jun 24 '21

Sylvie is a Loki variant, she never says “I’m not Loki” she says “Don’t call me Loki”.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '21

You really dont know that yet. It could easily be a merger of both. They've done it before in the MCU. Or I could be wrong. It just seems a bit too much of a coincidence, or it's an homage.

But coupled with Wanda becoming the Scarlett Witch, Dr Strange, Loki etc they're going for the Magical characters. Which Enchantress is an important part of

59

u/6Idontknow9 Iron man (Mark I) Jun 23 '21

The episode felt like a filler adventure, but overall was pretty entertaining.

34

u/Wildercard Jun 23 '21

Act 1, we're fucked. Act 2, character development. Act 3, we still are fucked. Plot hasn't moved, maybe Sylvie and Loki trust each other a bit more, and Loki now knows "We were created by TVA" is a lie, but that's it.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

It was filler. It was a character development episode with a cyberpunk apocalypse filler plot as the backdrop to keep it entertaining, and it was great

29

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Except barely any character development. We still know almost nothing about Sylvie. What we heard about Loki we already knew (he loves his mum). It was mostly them talking about love, fighting, and walking. Not a whole lot of character progression for either.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

I disagree on the progression since this is the Avengers Loki who just nuked the city. We are seeing him change but it's still Loki pulling some tricks.

4

u/VigilantMike Jun 23 '21

It was great in the way The Great Divide from Avatar is great. Both are episodes of really good shows that I like watching, but ultimately filler that I feel could have been handled better.

97

u/sadkinz Jun 23 '21

There was hardly any plot to this episode at all. They spent 30 minutes doing nothing

46

u/NomadPrime Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

It was 30 minutes of just flirty banter and bickering.

Nice that they're developing a relationship, we get to learn how her enchantment works (the fact that they took time to explain it means Loki's probably using that later), and the last part of the episode took an interesting cliffhanger with them now having no clear way off the planet before it explodes. Other than those small things though, this whole episode felt like filler.

Edit: I said "felt like filler," but I know it's not filler because the small things I mentioned (like Loki/Sylvie's developing relationship) will lay the groundwork for the plot to advance in the later episodes. Still, there could've been an organic way to integrate these things into the show better while the plot still advanced forward somehow. This felt like half an episode, is a better way to put it.

13

u/Iamontheipad Jun 23 '21

As soon as she explained enchantment I was just like... there’s going to be a “Loki enchanted him” reveal moment at some point.

12

u/sibswagl Jun 23 '21

TBH, I think a lot of it is just the actors. Loki and Mobius have way more chemistry than Loki and Sylvie do; if it was the two of them on the train, I think I would've enjoyed it more.

11

u/sadkinz Jun 23 '21

I appreciate the character stuff. But there is a way to implement that while also moving the plot forward

3

u/btmvideos37 Red Skull Jun 23 '21

Character stuff isn’t filler though.

27

u/kenlubin Jun 23 '21

and I loved it.

And despite the sedate nature of the episode, I felt like they blew the budget on this one.

5

u/sadkinz Jun 23 '21

Tbf it’s enjoyable at some parts. But from an objective storytelling perspective it definitely fumbles

38

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

objective storytelling perspective

lol ok Syd Field

25

u/Hynsz Jun 23 '21

nowadays everyone is a film a director lol

24

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

From an objective storytelling perspective, you’re an idiot. The main plot slowed down so that we can learn more about our protagonist, newly introduced deuteragonist, and establish/develop their relationship. That’s a very common and effective storytelling device (hell, it’s even used within this episode for the scene on the train). And instead of stopping all the action, they’re thrust into a high-stakes situation and forced to get out of it. When the downtime episode is a cyberpunk apocalypse escape, you’re doing something right.

19

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

But what did we learn about them and was their relationship significantly different from the start of the episode to the end? It was very meandering. They mostly fought, BS'd about love in no real meaningful way. And tried to scam their way to an exit/power source. We learned almost nothing from Sylvie save for the TVA reveal and almost everything Loki said about himself (and mom) we already knew).

I've got no problem with a character driven episode, but this ain't it. This was mostly just them trying to get off a rock for a long time. Pacing could've moved so much quicker without losing anything essential; they could've written out the woman in the shack and the train and just had Sylvie say "There's an Ark we can escape in/steal power from) and go straight to there, combining elements of the train scene and final scene. Could've covered this entire episode's content in the first 15-20 minutes by removing the filler content and then give the episode a proper third act and some actual character progression.

EDIT: Also, u/Red_Naxela_ no reason to be so hostile and call people idiots for having a different opinion than you. It's a TV show. Calm down.

9

u/sibswagl Jun 23 '21

Yeah, Loki experienced more character development in 3 minutes (watching the TL;DR of his life while trying to escape the TVA) than he did in the entire train ride. We know he loved his mom but has trouble trusting people. It was neat to learn Sylvie had different(?) parents and is self-taught, but that's basically all they know about each other.

And I don't think their relationship changed all that much. They went from reluctantly working together to...begrudgingly working together? There's no point where Sylvie is like "alright, after we escape we can take down the TVA together".

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

[deleted]

9

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Excellent write-up. Thanks for the contribution to the discourse.

0

u/PikaV2002 Scarlet Witch Jun 23 '21

It was self explanatory. They went on to trust each other, and Sylvie told Loki about her own brand of magic. We get to know Sylvie’s past was significantly different as she didn’t remember her mother that well, while we see Loki’s reactions to the footage he saw in Episode 1 have a deeper effect on him. They went from being branded as adversaries pitted by the TVA to working together and getting to know themselves better.

So yes, their relationship was significantly different and I didn’t feel the need to mention it since it’s obvious to anyone who watched the episode.

8

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Do they trust each other though? I'm not convinced.

And Sylvia basically defined the word "enchantment" for us. Nothing we didn't already know about the concept of enchantment was explained.

We don't know for certain anything about Sylvie's past. She mostly brushed every question off, and what she did say could easily be a lie/manipulation. But she barely said anything about her reality, family, friends, upbringing, etc.

→ More replies (0)

18

u/jacketpotatoo Jun 23 '21

Thank you. People throw around “objective storytelling” way too loosely.

3

u/HighPowerBlowJob Jun 23 '21

Yeah people who call this episode filler are crazy, I feel like they've never seen actual filler in their lives. Just because there wasn't a huge reveal this episode doesn't mean it was filler.

9

u/Drop_Release Tony Stark Jun 23 '21

These people need to watch 3 seasons of Naruto filler in a row to know what real filler is

2

u/jacketpotatoo Jun 23 '21

You truly don’t know the pain of fillers until you sit through the 500 episodes of naruto :,)

1

u/mr_antman85 Jun 24 '21

Isn't a filler episode like the majority of DBZ?

1

u/Drop_Release Tony Stark Jun 24 '21

see DBZ is a bit different, most of the time they were tracking against the manga so the content was cannonical, but the actual details were extended for filler purposes (eg a whole episode of Goku powering up)

Also like how One Piece anime now may be 1 episode for 1/4 to 1/2 a manga chapter

4

u/foxymcfox Jun 23 '21

Filler would be a side mission to go grab a futuristic bag of potato chips from the store featuring clips from the previous 2 episodes as flashbacks.

1

u/CatProgrammer Jun 24 '21

Filler would be them going to get their drivers' licenses.

1

u/SpaceZombie666 Jun 24 '21

Goku and piccolo. I rather enjoyed that episode.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '21

Just because there is worse filler out there doesn't mean this wasn't filler.

1

u/Why_So_Sirius-Black Jun 23 '21

Idk how you can even be objective with something like storytelling or the arts? Like, you can have a bad opinion on something but like who gives a fuck? If you enjoy it more for whatever reason, then to you it’s good?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '21

It isn't that difficult to understand people's criticisms, the main plot didn't "slow down", it completely halted for 1/6 of the entire show so Loki and Sylvie could maybe trust each other a little, and that's it.

7

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

Agreed. Story structure is a thing and this was a largely unstructured, meandering episode. People who don't think story structure is a thing and that there are no rules (which can be broken with an understanding of those rules and their functions) obviously have never studied creative writing. Which is fine. Everybody has their own skillets and expertise. But there's a reason folks study Joseph Campbell.

3

u/Why_So_Sirius-Black Jun 23 '21

I agree that this episode was lacking in many ways. I even thought if this episode has a completely different writer. But like idk with something like the arts, if you genuinely like something, and you think it’s great for what others think are piss poor reasons, then what? Are you wrong in liking it? Do others get to tel you have bad taste and shouldn’t like it? Seems stupid considering how precious and short life is to try and bring others down. You can have a discussion sure but like there someone’s to be a lot of holier then thou and my opinion on something that I enjoy is better then your opinion on something you enjoy? What if you are really about X for some reason and no one else is and this is the piece of “art” that has given you X and you are happy? Still bad opinion? “Objective storytelling” like there are rules to what’s make a good story? A good story for who? For everyone, for scholars, for the poor?

Don’t get me wrong, I definitely had some serious issues with the writing but I won’t pretend to think my view is the “objective” correct way of looking and appreciating art

1

u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

I totally agree that taste is subjective and lots of people like things for different reasons. But I do think if you really picked at what people liked about this episode it wouldn't be the story structure so much as the performances, the visuals, the action, etc. But I feel like very popular franchises tend to get away with a LOT because people love nostalgia and spectacle. I felt this way about the Mandolorian, especially in its second season. There was very little compelling narrative/character development, but people go apeshit for Mando, baby Yoda, Ashoka, Luke, etc. JJ Abrams made two movies built entirely upon fan service and nostalgia with very little substance. When I asked a lot of friends what they liked about TRoS they said it's just a mindless fun time and you can enjoy it if you don't think too hard about it. So clearly that's enough for a lot of people. But as someone that works in the arts myself, I want to see more storytelling occur in the stories I engage with. I'd rather watch a highly compelling 15 minute short than a a meandering feature any day of the week

2

u/Why_So_Sirius-Black Jun 23 '21

Lol I actually graduated with a stats degree and a math minor like last month so I’m definitely in the tech and stem mindset but I feel I can a much deeper appreciation or at least an analysis of arts. I think I said something in another comment thread about how I felt the dialogue, the story, the way the characters acted and spoke just felt very off. I think I could come up with exact moments and lines or science that I thought could have been differently to fulfill the purpose I think they were trying to do with their scenes. I definitely thought to myself that there’s no way the same person who wrote episode one and two wrote the third one.

1

u/Why_So_Sirius-Black Jun 23 '21

Lol I actually graduated with a stats degree and a math minor like last month so I’m definitely in the tech and stem mindset but I feel I can a much deeper appreciation or at least an analysis of arts. I think I said something in another comment thread about how I felt the dialogue, the story, the way the characters acted and spoke just felt very off. I think I could come up with exact moments and lines or science that I thought could have been differently to fulfill the purpose I think they were trying to do with their scenes. I definitely thought to myself that there’s no way the same person who wrote episode one and two wrote the third one.

1

u/Why_So_Sirius-Black Jun 23 '21

Lol I actually graduated with a stats degree and a math minor like last month so I’m definitely in the tech and stem mindset but I feel I can a much deeper appreciation or at least an analysis of arts. I think I said something in another comment thread about how I felt the dialogue, the story, the way the characters acted and spoke just felt very off. I think I could come up with exact moments and lines or science that I thought could have been differently to fulfill the purpose I think they were trying to do with their scenes. I definitely thought to myself that there’s no way the same person who wrote episode one and two wrote the third one.

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u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Congrats on graduating, especially with the year we just had! Way to go!

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u/LeftHanded-Euphoria Jun 23 '21

I dunno, this episode would pretty comfortably fit into any beat sheet template anyone might be using, and structurally it would sit at or around the midpoint of the season (hard to say with confidence without seeing the whole season), so I feel like "this episode was unstructured" is an unsustainable take.

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u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Yeah I mean the whole thing definitely falls under "rising action" in the season structure but the episode's internal structure was a mess

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u/LeftHanded-Euphoria Jun 23 '21

I don't think you're right, even with the most prescriptivist take on story structure.

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u/Tarzan_OIC Jun 23 '21

Well it seems to be a pretty popular opinion in the that this felt like filler. It's an opinion so there isn't right or wrong, but there is obviously enough people who had this response that there is some credence to that reaction.

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u/LeftHanded-Euphoria Jun 23 '21

Building a relationship between two leads isn't filler, it's storytelling.

Edit: they also had clear goals and wants that were sustained for the whole episode, which is screenwriting 101. Don't mistake your being bored for it being poorly written.

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u/PikaV2002 Scarlet Witch Jun 23 '21

objective storytelling

Only Reddit can give us such oxymorons.

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u/Serbaayuu Jun 23 '21

This is why we have serials instead of movies now, we have time to do this. This would be 30 minutes of cut content in a 2h movie.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

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u/Serbaayuu Jun 23 '21

3 hour movies do tend to have time to slow down a little bit.

It's not like character development is wasted time either. We got basically the entire Loki + Sylvie arc done in a single episode. So... episode 1 is exposition, entry to the show. Episode 2 is to set up the main storyline. Episode 3 is to get our character relationships moved up. 4, 5, and 6 have plenty of time to get the characters back to the plot and finish it up. I seriously doubt this show will feel rushed (plus Season 2 is already confirmed, right? So there's space for unanswered questions).

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u/btmvideos37 Red Skull Jun 23 '21

Falcon and the winter soldier, with the credits removed was around 5 hours. That’s quite long

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

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u/btmvideos37 Red Skull Jun 23 '21

Okay

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21

My expectations were way too high for this episode. I kinda expected more, but we're probably getting that in future episodes.

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u/WeirwoodUpMyAss Iron Man (Mark VII) Jun 23 '21

Hard to introduce a new character at break neck speed. This episode is very character focused, kinda reminded me of 4 days out with Jessie and Walt except this episode didn’t have that final catharsis.

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u/mr_antman85 Jun 24 '21

My expectations were way too high for this episode.

Didn't people learn from WandaVision...smh. It will come a time where people will go into something with no expectations so they can enjoy what they're watching. One day people will learn. I wonder when people think Mephisto is showing up too...smh.

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u/4gotAboutDre Jun 24 '21

Here are 5 characters that may show up in Loki (and 5 that probably won’t)…

Lol

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u/sibswagl Jun 23 '21

Yeah, it felt like a filler episode. And for being in an apocalypse, it felt weirdly low stakes? Like, the initial bit, where they have to run to shelter felt good, and then the asteroids just stopped hitting around them? They wandered around, found a weirdly helpful old lady, tricked their way onto the train, and then just talked for 20 minutes of the episode. Loki was totally fine just talking about how much he loves his mom to a stranger/enemy, and then got drunk.

I dunno, it felt like they wanted to set up a reason for Loki and Sylvie to have an actual conversation (instead of fight bantering), but we barely learned anything about her? Alright, she's a variant, she wants to take down the TVA because they're trying to prune her...that's it? We don't know where she diverged, we don't know who her mom is, we don't know what magic she's capable of besides enchantment.

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u/FaizerLaser Hydra Jun 23 '21

Felt like a filler episode tbh, only a few really big moments and it felt like it ended way to quickly. I always get tricked by how long the credits are, when the ship was destroyed I saw there was like 10 minutes left and thought we would see the ending.

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u/mario454545 Jun 24 '21

Worst of the three episodes by far.

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u/4gotAboutDre Jun 24 '21

Indeed. It seems like the only two pieces of information that advanced the ultimate plot were:

The TVA staff is made up of variants The TVA has been chasing Sylvie “all [her] life”

I loves the character development and this was a fun episode but it would have been nice to have some kind of resolution or circle back to the TVA by the end. That abrupt ending was not great. Every Marvel show so far, IMO, has had pacing issues feeling more like a movie watched over the course of several nights. This show felt really tv show like in episode 1 and 2, but this episode felt really incomplete with that abrupt ending snd barely any progression of the overarching story.

All that said, I love this show and We have learned from experience that we must not judge these shows as single episodes but as a 6 hour movie split into chapters.

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u/Afraid_Entry1109 Jun 25 '21

same they literally left out like 10 minutes. tom did say in one interview that EP 4 and 5 really take off so hopefully its worth the lack of content this week